50 trim or evo3 16G for a daily driver

[fatboyq]

so Im looking to buying a dsm soon, I have seen 3 already and have 3 more to go. I plan on driving my dsm to work daily and have some fun on the street on friday night etc. I doubt I will see the track often if at all. with that in mind what is the quickest spooling turbo out there for the street. I want to pull to redline and start making boost around 3k rpm.

is a .50 trim too much of a turbo for a daily driver sitting in traffic etc. I hear they make crazy power with supporting mods.

will the car be less reliable with a non mitsu turbo like the 50 trim? i have had some people tell me so.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Evo3 has done just fine for me on the streets for the last year or so now. Running 93 pump gas and 21psi has yielding satisfying results... especially on the interstates and highways. I smoked and hung with a few sport bikes and also my neighbors five speed fox body Mustang 5.0.

As a daily driver the e3b16g gives me quick boost for fast lane changing power without the excessive wait for spool up. I feel its a good choice for a daily driven street car. And don't get me started on how fun it is to have full boost on tap at a relatively low rev.

Truth be told not many cars (production or modded) will be able to just stomp all over you with a good tune and an e3b16g on the street. Don't take this as permission to street race but lets be honest, sometimes it just happens and you get on the gas a little bit. Anybody that says they resist a good street run 100% of the time is a liar.

 

[Dragon TalonTsi]

There is no such thing at a "Big EVO III" turbocharger.


There are these though:

~Small 16G
~16G
~Big 16G
~EvoIII 16G
~ported EvoIII 16G

On a side note, I suppose I could list the turbos as being ported or un-ported, but I'm not sure if I see the point in porting a smaller version of a turbocharger when there are other types that have larger flow passages without being ported.




Then you need to do a search.




Getting back on topic, I would like to see exactly why MyBeatGSX is making significantly less whp than people like donmajicjuan or ShapeGSX. Let's not turn this into bench racing, but instead let's take a close look at the reasons for the significant differences.

From what I have read... and searched, there is a Evo III BIG 16G, that is what they put in all the Evo's, a Big 16G, hence, an EVO Big 16G... I was just wondering about that... I made over 350WHP with my mods, but I keep the stock ratings on there for that reason, to keep people guessing... I have both the time slips in the 1/4 and the Dyno sheets... but why is MyBeatGSX raging on it so much, get rid of it then if you dont like it... since you know all of these turbos and their ratings, and how they all feel, then just get another one...

 

[ShapeGSX]

I think the moral of the long winded, fairly off topic story is... the Evo III doesn't make the power everyone would like to think it does.

Damn, I imagined the whole thing.

Perhaps the moral of your story is that your car doesn't make the power you wish it did? Do you realistically expect to be making more than 300hp with your mods on this turbo? Cams help a ton.

How did I miss this thread?

To address a later point:

1. Shape runs with what is essentially a welded shut WG
2. They both have cams
3. They have real exhausts
4. Head work maybe??
5. SMIM's??

1. No I don't. I run a Hallman MBC and an unported, unflappered turbo.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. None. Just a 1G head. Stock.
5. 1G intake manifold.

Come on up to Worcester. I'll take a look at your car if you want. I'll take you for a ride in mine. Hell, I have some race gas in the garage. We'll crank the boost up to 29.

If you want to make the most power that you can on ANY turbo, you NEED certain mods. This goes for any 16G, a 50 trim, an FP3575, a 20G, you name it. So just don't be bitter about not making the same power as somebody else with the same turbo that happens to have a better setup on their car. That's just stupid.

Yes, cams really do make sense with an Evo III 16G. They also make sense on Evos. It really wakes the car up a TON. Deny it all you want and call me brainwashed and backwards, but in the end, I'm not the one with the dyno sheet that starts with a "2".

 

[firebirdvert305]

Funny you guys mention this, ### as of the end of this week I will be tuning the E316G i have (ported by fp, stock flapper) with my current setup, which is basically fmic, 272/272 cams + all the bolt ons. Im hoping for 300+ on pump which im quite confident il see. and 350+ on 110. Tuning will be done by safc + eprom. Il bring back the results soon as i get them.

 

[BrokenTsi]

I didn't bother to read the past 3 pages.

But I would take a stock ported 14b over a 16g ANY day. Its not worth the money to buy a 16g.

50 trim does not spool slow. It spools really fast actually. Too fast for me. 50 trim is the smallest turbo I would recommend to anyone.

I daily drove 50 trims, 60-1, and a gt30r. Never had a problem.

Im not telling you to which turbo to buy. But once you spend all the money on a 16g, you'll want to get rid of it in 2 weeks. 50 trim is fine for a stock engine. And makes excellent power on pump gas. Dont let "spool" up time scare you. Its not an issue. Good luck and have fun.

 

[want_a_gsx]

quick question, why is it that bigger turbos (50 trim) perform better on pump gas than smaller turbos (evo3 16g)?

***asuming that the variables, such as mods, temperature, boost etc., are the same...***

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

No comparison between 14b and big 16g is needed. It is proven that you can make more power with a e3b16g than with a 14b ported or otherwise. If that statement was true I would have put my 14b back on the car and put the 16g on ebay. It never happened though because the e3b16g pulls much harder into the higher rpms than a 14b does.

Quick question, where is the median area? The middle ground? Its either 14b or 50trim?
I believe 16g's and 20g's should still be considered viable upgrades to stock.

 

[ShapeGSX]

quick question, why is it that bigger turbos (50 trim) perform better on pump gas than smaller turbos (evo3 16g)?

***asuming that the variables, such as mods, temperature, boost etc., are the same...***

50-trim, no doubt. Though I don't know why you are keeping the boost constant. The nice thing about larger turbos is that you can run more boost with them.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Damn, I imagined the whole thing.

Perhaps the moral of your story is that your car doesn't make the power you wish it did? Do you realistically expect to be making more than 300hp with your mods on this turbo? Cams help a ton.

How did I miss this thread?

To address a later point:


1. No I don't. I run a Hallman MBC and an unported, unflappered turbo.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. None. Just a 1G head. Stock.
5. 1G intake manifold.

Come on up to Worcester. I'll take a look at your car if you want. I'll take you for a ride in mine. Hell, I have some race gas in the garage. We'll crank the boost up to 29.

1. Controlling boost with airflow of the engine (boost falling off) is the same as running with a welded shut wastegate.


PM me and I'd be more than happy to come up there some weekend (as much as I hate driving in that area). I'd like to see what your ass dyno thinks about my car, because I know my actual dyno lies. If I can pull an 11.9 Civic on the HIGHWAY then I must be making more than high 200's.

BTW, let's do it soon. My full garret 57 trim is sitting at my house and my custom tubular manifold is being made in a couple weeks. 272's, 750's, and a chip go in after that. No more Shitvo III.

 

[ShapeGSX]

1. Controlling boost with airflow of the engine (boost falling off) is the same as running with a welded shut wastegate.

No, I can run more boost. If I turn it up, it actually does hold more boost at redline. But with my small intercooler, it doesn't make sense to.

I've turned it up way too high by accident before and spiked to something like 34psi.

If I actually welded the wastegate shut, or even just pulled, I'd hate to think the kind of boost levels it would hit. This turbo can push out some really high pressure ratios at low engine RPM. At high RPMs, I wouldn't expect more than ~29psi, though, tops given what I have seen when I turn the boost up and down at the track. But I wouldn't want to run that at all, obviously. Something would let go for sure.

 

[DSMunknown]

No, I can run more boost. If I turn it up, it actually does hold more boost at redline. But with my small intercooler, it doesn't make sense to.

I've turned it up way too high by accident before and spiked to something like 34psi.

If I actually welded the wastegate shut, or even just pulled, I'd hate to think the kind of boost levels it would hit. This turbo can push out some really high pressure ratios at low engine RPM. At high RPMs, I wouldn't expect more than ~29psi, though, tops given what I have seen when I turn the boost up and down at the track. But I wouldn't want to run that at all, obviously. Something would let go for sure.

Josh, I'm surprised that your RRE Griffin/Spearco FMIC is too small. Just to clarify, have you done anything with your O2 housing (that is, did you leave it unported or did you port it out)?

 

[ShapeGSX]

Josh, I'm surprised that your RRE Griffin/Spearco FMIC is too small. Just to clarify, have you done anything with your O2 housing (that is, did you leave it unported or did you port it out)?

My O2 housing is lightly ported. Just to match the larger outlet of the turbo. And the wastegate passage is ported a little.

I do get boost creep in the colder weather, but I can't keep my right foot planted long enough in the winter for the creep to happen.

 

[Stoner]

>300 awhp in impossible unless you are a shop.

Some varient of a 50 trim and and EVO 3 turbo will be fairly close in performance. They are both small sized turbos that will probably satisfy 75% of people buying them. I have never run anything other then a T-25, 14b and an EVO 3, but the EVO 3 was an absolute blast to drive on the street and at the track.

I went 113 mph on pure pumpgas(Zero Octane Booster ), and 119mph on racegas. People have done the same or better on different turbos.

To each his own.

MyBeatGSX Dyno's all read different and to me arent a good gauge for how well the car is perfoming. They are however great to show improvements or to tune with. Take your car to the track and see what it traps and report back.

 

[JayRolla]

Still the 50 trim has a better designed housings and will have lower intake temps than the evo16g, making it way easier to pull power out of pump gas. Lower intake temps means less knock and more power.

 

[JessGST]

This is Exactly true, just like how everyone says you can easily make 400whp on a 50 trim, but how mnay people out there with 50 trims are actually putting down 400+ day in day out?

I put down 401 awhp on a SBR G50 - 23 psi and pump gas.

I don't know too many people running 50 trim, but I did it on only 23 psi. I would run more boost, but I'm on a stock block.