50 Trim or A Big 16G?

[blackmirage]

Ok, This is not neccasarily a wich turbo should I get and how much power will I have post, yet more of a wich is better suited for a noob just starting out on a 1990 AWD Talon TSI.. A 50 Trim or A Big 16G? I appreciate your help.

 

[andymoraitis]

Actually, you can still tune with fuel pressure, boost and octane. I like things easy and this is certainly an excellent low cost option that works much better than an AFC/MAFT/logger deal.

Come take a ride in this thing and I'll show you the meaning of fun young fella.

 

[Blue95GST]

Def gonna shoot ya toward the Evo III BIG 16g

 

[eldiabloz13]

SAFC=300? the neo yes but not a used one or two. Now how much is dsmlink what 560 and to socket 590. I dont know about you but my turbo will cost almost that much. I wouldent like to spend that where i dont feel its needed. Like why not get a MAF-t logger and chip it. That would be cheap to do. A maf sensor is 5 bucks at a junkie for me. Translator well about 200 no matter where you go. Logger 50 bucks. Chip to be honest i havent looked at prices but someone said 100. 355 isnt that bad to me. I have seen dsmlink work in person. SO much that this kid cant drive his car on the road sometimes because its to powerful. Now my theory or future plans will work correct. I just dont want to go dsmlink thats all. Nothing againt it, but rather its not for me it seems. Now also when you go 50 trim and all supporting mods do you lose MPG. I have never heard of anyone discussing losing milage on this but hey id thought id ask now.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

How many of you recommending an Evo 16G to him are actually running one? How many of you have tired to get over 300whp out of it? How many of you have got that or more out of it? Its ignorant people blindly recommending the lastest "cool" turbo that lead people to make bad purchases. I went on the recommendations of retards because I didn't know better and ended up with this turbo myself and I hate it. "Oh but the Evo can make 400hp" No it can't, not on a real car. Not on a car that needs to last more than a week. Might be nice for the turbo to last for more than that pull too. "Oh but the Evo will do 11's" So what?? A T25 will do 8's if you put it on a 125cc shifter cart, what's your point?

Please take everything you hear online with a grain of salt. Especially stuff like turbo recommendations from people that have never even seen the turbo in person.

I'll tell you from personal experience, you're going to want the 50 trim. It just makes sence. Buy right buy once. It will put down more SAFE power, not just more power. I wish I had gone with one, even with my small injectors I'd be far better off than trying to work with a small turbo at 20+psi like I'm trying to do now. I don't care if people have gone 12's on a 14b, they've gone 12's on a T25 too... so what.

Bottom line, either turbo will blow your engine into a million pieces if you don't know what you're doing. So this "newbie" thing shouldn't even be a deciding factor. Get the turbo that will best suit your power goals and be smart about what you do with it. You won't lose gas mileage with any turbo. Off boost the engine is still a 2.0L no matter what size turbo your running. If anything you'll get better mileage with bigger turbos... if you don't drive like a nut case.

 

[2gGSX]

I've put down 33 lbs/min of air on 15 psi of boost pressure. There are plenty of people who make great power with the Evo III (granted not 400 whp, but that has just been a common misconception). I'm not saying the 50 trim is a bad turbo, but if you don't make the power you expect from a 16g then don't expect to do so with a 50 trim.

 

[gsxAWDdsm692]

uh oh Turbo Battle!

Roll Call

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I've put down 33 lbs/min of air on 15 psi of boost pressure. There are plenty of people who make great power with the Evo III (granted not 400 whp, but that has just been a common misconception). I'm not saying the 50 trim is a bad turbo, but if you don't make the power you expect from a 16g then don't expect to do so with a 50 trim.

33lbs/min? At what -5*F? Me too. The problem is, the Evo III needs cams to make power. But the Evo III doesn't like cams because it can't keep up with the flow. So you end up with a contradiction. You have a tiny turbo with no top end and you're trying to compensate for that with aggresive cams. Get a turbo that can actually flow as well as your engine and NOW you're going to make some big power. Just because its physically possible with lots of head modifications to cram 35lb/min of air through that tiny 2" hole doesn't mean its the best way to get 35lbs/min into the engine.

I'll rephrase what you said... If you're making good power with an Evo 16G, you'll make significantly more power with a 50 trim.

 

[gsxAWDdsm692]

I'll rephrase what you said... If you're making good power with an Evo 16G, you'll make significantly more power with a 50 trim.

Well said.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Dude look at your mods list! Its like almost IDENTICAL to mine, down to like the same brand of products and the same fuel pressure setting.WTF Hell you even have your plugs gapped the same as I used to. My car has a twin!!

For a second I thought I clicked on myself, but then I realized my car isn't that smashed up.

We need to compare notes some time, because you're making 3hp more than me.

Look at this shit... I'm gona shit my pants this is so weird...

Your mod list:
Dejon 3'' intake, APEX'i N1 Cat-back, APEX'i GT 3" Downpipe, Ported Evo III Big 16G, Evo III manifold, external dump tubular O2, Dejon FMIC, 1G intake manifold, 1G throttle body, Walbro 255HP (rewired), Aeromotive AFPR (40psi), MLS headgasket, Hallman MBC (20psi), Type RS bov, APEXi S-AFC II, Precision 550's, 1.3bar radiator cap, ACT 2600 w/street disc, XACT 11.5lb flywheel, ss clutch line, poly motor mounts, balance shafts removed, Buschur Coil-on-Plug, BPR7's (.030), EGR block off, EVAP removed, breather/PCV eliminating catch can (RRE), B&M short shifter, Syborski shifter bushings, DEFI boost & a/f gauges

My mod list:

Full ExPsi intake, Buschur 2.5" cat-back, APEX'i GT 3" dp, ported Evo III 16G, Evo III manifold, external dump tubular O2, Dejon FMIC, 1G intake manifold, 1G throttle body, Walbro 255HP (rewired), Aeromotive AFPR (40psi), MLS headgasket, Hallman MBC (20psi), Type RS bov, APEXi S-AFC II, Precision 550's, 1.3bar radiator cap, ACT 2600 w/street disc, XACT 11.5lb flywheel, ss clutch line, poly motor mounts, balance shafts removed, Buschur Coil-on-Plug, BPR7's (.025), EGR block off, EVAP removed, breather/PCV eliminating catch can (RRE), short shifter, shifter bushings, boost & a/f gauges

 

[perley03]

Dude look at your mods list! Its like almost IDENTICAL to mine, down to like the same brand of products and the same fuel pressure setting.WTF Hell you even have your plugs gapped the same as I used to. My car has a twin!!

For a second I thought I clicked on myself, but then I realized my car isn't that smashed up.

We need to compare notes some time, because you're making 3hp more than me.

Look at this shit... I'm gona shit my pants this is so weird...

Your mod list:
Dejon 3'' intake, APEX'i N1 Cat-back, APEX'i GT 3" Downpipe, Ported Evo III Big 16G, Evo III manifold, external dump tubular O2, Dejon FMIC, 1G intake manifold, 1G throttle body, Walbro 255HP (rewired), Aeromotive AFPR (40psi), MLS headgasket, Hallman MBC (20psi), Type RS bov, APEXi S-AFC II, Precision 550's, 1.3bar radiator cap, ACT 2600 w/street disc, XACT 11.5lb flywheel, ss clutch line, poly motor mounts, balance shafts removed, Buschur Coil-on-Plug, BPR7's (.030), EGR block off, EVAP removed, breather/PCV eliminating catch can (RRE), B&M short shifter, Syborski shifter bushings, DEFI boost & a/f gauges

My mod list:

Full ExPsi intake, Buschur 2.5" cat-back, APEX'i GT 3" dp, ported Evo III 16G, Evo III manifold, external dump tubular O2, Dejon FMIC, 1G intake manifold, 1G throttle body, Walbro 255HP (rewired), Aeromotive AFPR (40psi), MLS headgasket, Hallman MBC (20psi), Type RS bov, APEXi S-AFC II, Precision 550's, 1.3bar radiator cap, ACT 2600 w/street disc, XACT 11.5lb flywheel, ss clutch line, poly motor mounts, balance shafts removed, Buschur Coil-on-Plug, BPR7's (.025), EGR block off, EVAP removed, breather/PCV eliminating catch can (RRE), short shifter, shifter bushings, boost & a/f gauges

Or either that some one is BSing here....looks like he copied your mod list word for word, and just changed a few things to make it look "legit". Or i could be wrong, and this is one of those "One in a million chances" type of things.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Its like one of those evil twin things. We have to figure out who's the real one. Or you guys aren't going to know which one of us to kill! I'm the real one!!! Kill him!!

I'm not saying he's lying, but if that was a copy and paste I'm flattered. I'm glad someone here respects my pile of crap enough that they wished they had it.

 

[scottsee]

I just went through the "EvoIII vs. 50trim" war with myself. Matter a fact, the EvoIII I chose hasn't even touched my door yet, it will be here on Thursday. It's a hard decision to make. My turbo exploded on me, taking out my o2 sensor and dropping 3 quarts of oil in my intercooler and exhaust. If this would have happened 3 months from now or 6 months from now I still would have chosen an EvoIII because I'm still on my stock 450cc/clutch/7bolt. If I would have had ARP heads, clutch and 650cc + I would have chosen the 50trim. Unfortunately I hadn't chosen a path yet for a turbo when mine blew, so I hadn't chosen a clutch/injectors & thats $900 + a turbo... To much right now, oh well... There is always 2007...

 

[gsxAWDdsm692]

WTF??? WTF

wow this is insane, when i read this post i was like wtf??

thats the parts list of my old car, that was totalled in April because some drunk ballbag slammed it while it was parked out front of my house...it was a sad day because it was 6 days before my birthday...

Now i started all over with a 95 GSX...its kinda fun...
but this is insane ...i miss that car...but life sucks, get a helmet

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I'm going to buy a lottery ticket today.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Get the 50 trim now that way you won't have to reupgrade next year when the evo3 just isn't cutting it.

The evo 3 is a great turbo yes, but so is the 50 trim. At any given boost level the 50 trim will be faster and has the potential to go farther than the 16g.

 

[blackmirage]

Ok, now I'm going to ask a series of stupid questions. Ok, First of all the only thing I know about the 50 trim is well that thats what everyone calls it and what I've learned here on the boards. But how would I identify one when I decide to purchase. Is it Garret? I thought so, Will it say 50trim or is it just that "50 trim" is part of the specs and thats what everyone has dubbed them? I'm a little lost on that. And Just out of curiosity whats the max on these. 400 450? 500? Just so I know. Thanks for the help thus far, you guys are great!

 

[gsxAWDdsm692]

Get the 50 trim now that way you won't have to reupgrade next year when the evo3 just isn't cutting it.

The evo 3 is a great turbo yes, but so is the 50 trim. At any given boost level the 50 trim will be faster and has the potential to go farther than the 16g.

He makes a great point. The ball's in your court now.


CanadianTSi your car is one of my favorites on this website.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

400hp would probably be a safe max. There's always the case of someone making rediculous numbers, but those are rare exceptions. If I was going for over 350hp I'd get something bigger.

And that's an excellent question you bring up. The name "50 trim" is an unfortunate nickname given to these turbos of a certain size. In reality, trim is completely meaningless as an indication of size except when comparing wheels in the same family(which you rarely will). So to answer your question, yes "50 trim" is part of the compressor specs, but beyond that its a meaningless number.

The FP Green is a 50 trim, and there's a bunch more, someone else can list them better.

 

[thekellbeast]

FG green, RS49T or whatever it's called, SCM50, SCM50BB, and a few others. Those ball bearing 50's are looking mighty attractive.

 

[bird man]

I have had both turbos. My E16G was a great 1st upgrade. I got boost happy and it just wasnt enough. I have all the fuel mods as well as dsmlink. i went for the PTE DBB 50 trim and love it. spools fast and just dont stop pulling!!! great turbo for pump gas and high boost.

 

[2gGSX]

A "50 trim" as it is commonly known is a T3/04E hybrid turbo with a bolt on Mitsubishi flanged turbine housing. They come with 54mm compressor wheel (2.123" inducer 3" exducer) in either a T04E or T04B housing with a T31 style turbine wheel (2.559" inducer 2.229" exducer).

The reason they are called 50 trim is because the compressor is because...
Trim = (inducer^2)/(exducer^2) x 100
Trim = (2.123^2)/(3.000^2) x 100
Trim = 50.0

 

[brute]

That's correct. Having a large trim, doesn't mean the turbo is better or worse. In face, the Evo III compressor wheel is a 60-trim. Go figure.

 

[dsmsucks]

Dude look at your mods list! Its like almost IDENTICAL to mine, down to like the same brand of products and the same fuel pressure setting.WTF Hell you even have your plugs gapped the same as I used to. My car has a twin!!

For a second I thought I clicked on myself, but then I realized my car isn't that smashed up.

We need to compare notes some time, because you're making 3hp more than me.

Look at this shit... I'm gona shit my pants this is so weird...

Your mod list:
Dejon 3'' intake, APEX'i N1 Cat-back, APEX'i GT 3" Downpipe, Ported Evo III Big 16G, Evo III manifold, external dump tubular O2, Dejon FMIC, 1G intake manifold, 1G throttle body, Walbro 255HP (rewired), Aeromotive AFPR (40psi), MLS headgasket, Hallman MBC (20psi), Type RS bov, APEXi S-AFC II, Precision 550's, 1.3bar radiator cap, ACT 2600 w/street disc, XACT 11.5lb flywheel, ss clutch line, poly motor mounts, balance shafts removed, Buschur Coil-on-Plug, BPR7's (.030), EGR block off, EVAP removed, breather/PCV eliminating catch can (RRE), B&M short shifter, Syborski shifter bushings, DEFI boost & a/f gauges

My mod list:

Full ExPsi intake, Buschur 2.5" cat-back, APEX'i GT 3" dp, ported Evo III 16G, Evo III manifold, external dump tubular O2, Dejon FMIC, 1G intake manifold, 1G throttle body, Walbro 255HP (rewired), Aeromotive AFPR (40psi), MLS headgasket, Hallman MBC (20psi), Type RS bov, APEXi S-AFC II, Precision 550's, 1.3bar radiator cap, ACT 2600 w/street disc, XACT 11.5lb flywheel, ss clutch line, poly motor mounts, balance shafts removed, Buschur Coil-on-Plug, BPR7's (.025), EGR block off, EVAP removed, breather/PCV eliminating catch can (RRE), short shifter, shifter bushings, boost & a/f gauges

I smell copy and paste

 

[JayRolla]

I dont know but you two guys fighting over this only pushing 277-280whp have something wrong. You guys should be at 300whp or over. My bros car has about the same amount of mods and dynoed 300whp 300lb torque. Your guys's numbers look low.

 

[blackmirage]

ok, so my friend poses the question why would you go to the trouble of getting a t3/t4 and all that, why not just go with a 20g. I'm about to start reading up on the 20g because I couldnt answer his question. He stated it would be easier to get one of those and just slap it on, this was his argument.