2G Solid Crossmember bushings

[twicks69]

Nice pieces! I would be interested in a set if/when you are able to find someone to mass-produce them!

 

[black_gst]

i have the specs to make these solid or with polyureathane i just dont have a test subject . anyone willing to be a tester? i could give you a really good deal on a set pm me if interested... i just want to ensure correct fitment before selling them. i also can have them mass produced for a reasonable price

 

[black_gst]

hey everyone check these out

Ladsm.com - View topic - 2g group buy rear subframe bushings

 

[greengoblin]

Prototype front X-member bushings.

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[greengoblin]

Proto-type bushings installed! Everything went smooth. Perfect fit and finish.
Things to note if you get a set from Adam.
I can't see doing this with out a press.

Most the holes that theses press into have weld splatter on the walls. They are going to want to make sure they clean that off. I used a dremel and a small flapper wheel. It worked great.

Put the outside lower top spacer on after you hang the X-member off the studs. Since your using a bolt in that location it's easier.


On to the pics

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[gixxerdrew]

Any chance you got a weight on that rear crossmember?

 

[black_gst]

if anyone needs a set of these please PM me for more info or see the ecmlink boards

 

[greengoblin]

Any chance you got a weight on that rear crossmember?

It's about to come back off so i can get that for you Drew.

Kevin

 

[Natedsmeclipse]

my god that is nice work cant wait to see how clean your going to make the under side of that car look.

 

[endeffect0]

Andrew: Gastroker on the previous page reported the rear cross member to weigh 34lbs.

 

[1995gsx20g]

beautiful.

 

[greengoblin]

Make your own rears:

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[T is for TURBO]

greengoblin, are those specs for FWD or AWD? Or are they interchangeable? Would you happen to have specs for the front subframe?

 

[97gst_spyder]

+1 on fwd rear bushings!

 

[greengoblin]

I did not have a FWD x member to compare them with.

I'm not going to post the specs on the fronts since I co developed those with Adam.

You can get them from Adam for a very good price. You can contact him on here : black_gst

 

[snowborder714]

They should be interchangeable (the bushings are the same according to CAPS).

 

[SlowSpyder]

Greengoblin you just save me some time for those rear x-member bushings!!

I made 2 out of the 4 today out of delrin today, slight differences on mine though.

 

[black_gst]

im making the 1st set of poly rear subframe bushings it will only replace the bushings it self and you will reuse the top and bottom spacer/washer.

this will provide a solid ride without the noise

 

[greengoblin]

Greengoblin you just save me some time for those rear x-member bushings!!

I made 2 out of the 4 today out of delrin today, slight differences on mine though.

Glad I could help! Those look great!

im making the 1st set of poly rear subframe bushings it will only replace the bushings it self and you will reuse the top and bottom spacer/washer.

this will provide a solid ride without the noise

Look forward to seeing your new one Adam!

 

[bmoha2]

Hi. My background is in mountain biking as a rider and a mechanic. I also was a tester for a few companies for high performance prototype components. I've been retired for quite some time. Why this is relvant; metallurgy plays a key role. I am concerned about dropping an aluminum plug into a mild steel hole. Galvanic corrosion... Disimilar metals. Galvanic corrosion is in effect a chemical weld. Once these are installed I couldn't see them coming back out without permanent deformation of the steel. I can't really see that as being a problem. And as galvanic corrosion is a corrosion process... The steel and the aluminum will oxidize. I'm in no way knocking your idea. I think it's a fantastic idea. I'm just thinking that at the very least you should put in a good schmear of waterproof grease or it's equivalent on the inside of the cup and on the outside of the aluminum bushing. Or possibly maching a thin delrin bushing that the bushing sits inside. Galvanic corrosion is an anaerobic process that doesn't need air but needs contact of two disimilar metals. I wouldn't suggest putting the bushings in dry. I'm not too worried about the aluminum bushing itself as it's massive. I'm concerned about the cup in the subframe. I saw that you took the time to reinforce (weld) the seams and the other even went so far to powdercoat? his subframe. I'd hate to see components in that good of condition i.e. in better than new condition rust from the inside out.

 

[black_gst]

Hi. My background is in mountain biking as a rider and a mechanic. I also was a tester for a few companies for high performance prototype components. I've been retired for quite some time. Why this is relvant; metallurgy plays a key role. I am concerned about dropping an aluminum plug into a mild steel hole. Galvanic corrosion... Disimilar metals. Galvanic corrosion is in effect a chemical weld. Once these are installed I couldn't see them coming back out without permanent deformation of the steel. I can't really see that as being a problem. And as galvanic corrosion is a corrosion process... The steel and the aluminum will oxidize. I'm in no way knocking your idea. I think it's a fantastic idea. I'm just thinking that at the very least you should put in a good schmear of waterproof grease or it's equivalent on the inside of the cup and on the outside of the aluminum bushing. Or possibly maching a thin delrin bushing that the bushing sits inside. Galvanic corrosion is an anaerobic process that doesn't need air but needs contact of two disimilar metals. I wouldn't suggest putting the bushings in dry. I'm not too worried about the aluminum bushing itself as it's massive. I'm concerned about the cup in the subframe. I saw that you took the time to reinforce (weld) the seams and the other even went so far to powdercoat? his subframe. I'd hate to see components in that good of condition i.e. in better than new condition rust from the inside out.

good info, i did do some reasearch into Disimilar Metal Corrosion and it does happen. one thing i read, which you likely know more about this then i do, is that for this corrosion to happen it requires a certain amount of current flowing between the two metals correct? and the more current the fast the corrosion happens. so if we could measure the current between the two and find that there is no current then we wouldent have a problem right?

a thin delrin bushing is a good idea but expensive... i even came up with a polyurethane coated rear subframe bushing design, but i was skeptical as to if it would hold up

 

[black_gst]

Galvanic compatibility
Often when design requires that dissimilar metals come in contact, the galvanic compatibility is managed by finishes and plating. The finishing and plating selected facilitate the dissimilar materials being in contact and protect the base materials from corrosion.[3]

Harsh environments, such as outdoors, high humidity, and salt environments, fall into this category. Typically there should be not more than 0.15 V difference in the "Anodic Index". For example; gold - silver would have a difference of 0.15V being acceptable. For normal environments, such as storage in warehouses or non-temperature and humidity controlled environments, there should not be more than 0.25 V difference in the "Anodic Index". For controlled environments, in which temperature and humidity are controlled, 0.50 V can be tolerated.[3]

Anodic index[3] Metal Index (V)
Gold, solid and plated, Gold-platinum alloy 0.00
Rhodium plated on silver-plated copper 0.05
Silver, solid or plated; monel metal. High nickel-copper alloys 0.15
Nickel, solid or plated, titanium an s alloys, Monel 0.30
Copper, solid or plated; low brasses or bronzes; silver solder; German silvery high copper-nickel alloys; nickel-chromium alloys 0.35
Brass and bronzes 0.40
High brasses and bronzes 0.45
18% chromium type corrosion-resistant steels 0.50
Chromium plated; tin plated; 12% chromium type corrosion-resistant steels 0.60
Tin-plate; tin-lead solder 0.65
Lead, solid or plated; high lead alloys 0.70
2000 series wrought aluminum 0.75
Iron, wrought, gray or malleable, plain carbon and low alloy steels 0.85 i think our subframe would fall into this
Aluminum, wrought alloys other than 2000 series aluminum, cast alloys of the silicon type 0.90
Aluminum, cast alloys other than silicon type, cadmium, plated and chromate 0.95 and here is Aluminum
Hot-dip-zinc plate; galvanized steel 1.20
Zinc, wrought; zinc-base die-casting alloys; zinc plated 1.25
Magnesium & magnesium-base alloys, cast or wrought 1.75
Beryllium 1.85

[edit] See also

so according to this table at most there is a .10v betweens steel and AL so they are galvanicly compatable

let me know if my understanding is correct


info taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

 

[bmoha2]

Interesting info. The index is lower than anticipated. In real world conditions I wonder if it still holds up. I live in Wisconsin. Tons of salt. So maybe my thinking is a bit biased.
I haven't found anodization to be a very durable finish. If you used a press to put the bushings into the subframe I think alot of it would be scraped off and be a waste of time. But if you were to anodize the bushings and then chill them in a freezer and heat up the steel cup of the subframe I'd imagine you'd be able to drop them right in without sacrificing the anodized layer. To my way of thinking after everything restores to normal temperature and if the steel cup of the subframe is prepped well (removing the burrs, welding slag etc trying to make the cup as uniform in dimension as possible) it would create and almost air tight seal. Similar to what you would get from being pressed in but with that added extra layer of anodized protection. I don't see that there would be any movement of the aluminum bushing in the steel cup after installation and during useage.
Maybe I'm over thinking it. Again like I said before I think it's a great idea. I like that someone on her is presenting innovative ideas and acting on them. The bushings themselves look to be very well fabricated and a very good product.
With that index of 10 maybe just putting that smear of waterproof grease in tge cups prior to being pressed in would be all you need.
I'd also have to say that I support this idea and product enough that if these were to become available for sale I'd buy a set. I have found that very few machining shops around this area are willing to produce 1 set of parts from a schematic. Maybe 1000 or 10,000 but not 1 set. Unless it's someone doing something on their lunch break or on their own time after hours

 

[black_gst]

well i make them for the front subframe rear subframe and rear differential the rear diff are avaiable in either solid Al or my polyurethane version which are available at Road Race Engineering's Eclipse Drivetrain Upgrades
the rest you can contact me for any more info

and if you go to the install pics thats me installing them into my awd subframe

also for the disssimilar metal thing i have heard that a zinc primer http://www.amazon.com/Krylon-K05135000-Zinc-Primer-Spray/dp/B002U1IKOA will almost stop any corosion

 

[black_gst]

1st ever poly rear subframe bushings

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