New 3-pc crossmember - Thoughts?

[Phil1320]

I've got a local DSM shop that has about 20 cars down there of all years and whatnot. I will try to get down there and see if I can figure this out. Seems weird to me. Since I own a '90, and my car is in pieces right now, I'll bring my roll stop and block bracket with me.......standby....

 

[Pirrofab]

Im really wanting to jump on board with this. Only thing as a concern is the mount bracket and the fact my car has been in several accidents. before i purchased it which has caused some distortation in the rad support at the least. Nothing looks bent or twisted and the alignment checks out ok but im just worried i'll buy these bars and then not be able to install them.

 

[99gst_racer]

Im really wanting to jump on board with this. Only thing as a concern is the mount bracket and the fact my car has been in several accidents. before i purchased it which has caused some distortation in the rad support at the least. Nothing looks bent or twisted and the alignment checks out ok but im just worried i'll buy these bars and then not be able to install them.

As long as you don't have frame rail damage, there shouldn't be a problem. If the factory crossmember still fits, the chromoly version will too.

 

[Pirrofab]

As long as you don't have frame rail damage, there shouldn't be a problem. If the factory crossmember still fits, the chromoly version will too.

Yea I think I'll be ok... Its probably just that I'm Paranoid. I've already made semi solid motor mounts with hard plastic inserts and window weld and have already had the north/ south bars removed when I dropped the pan and transmission and everything went back together ok. Come to think of it, Im dumb for thinking it wouldn't work.

 

[lil corb]

This is looks like something I'm interested in getting as my stock crossmember is stripped where the mounts bolts on to it. So to summarize I have avid mounts all around and I will be getting the front crossmember with out the north south and reusing my existing ones. I shouldn't run into any issues correct? Also any eta and estimated price for these?

Thanks

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

I've got a local DSM shop that has about 20 cars down there of all years and whatnot. I will try to get down there and see if I can figure this out. Seems weird to me. Since I own a '90, and my car is in pieces right now, I'll bring my roll stop and block bracket with me.......standby....

Pretty amazing to me there's still areas where you can keep that many DSMs in a shop alone. I think there might only be 20 DSMs left in my entire state, let alone at any one shop.

I'm interested to see what you find though.

 

[99gst_racer]

Got the first set of bushings back yesterday and test fit everything today. It fits perfectly as expected, so I've now got everything squared away. I'm going to put together an ad today or tomorrow and start taking orders immediately.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[99gst_racer]

1G AWD Chromoly Crossmember + New 3-pc Design - DSM Classifieds

 

[Phil1320]

Got the first set of bushings back yesterday and test fit everything today. It fits perfectly as expected, so I've now got everything squared away. I'm going to put together an ad today or tomorrow and start taking orders immediately.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[slowgsr]

Do you have something that will enable me/us '90 guys to place that hole properly? Template? Or is it as simple as grabbing a '91+ bracket???

I use a 90 style front mount! When I purchased my crossmember last year I was told I would need a 91-94 style. I figured I could either see what it would take to modify my 90 style, or if it was practical I could find a 91-94 mount.

I ended up modifying my 90 style mount, all I had to do was 'open up' the mount a bit to fit over the crossmember, once I opened it enough I bolted it up to the engine, and just marked around the outside of the crossmember on the inside of the mount on both sides. Than I marked center, transfered the mark to the outside of the mount, center punched and drilled a new hole for the bolt. It worked fine.

To open up the mount I just clamped it to my bench and used a torch to heat each ear up slighly and bend it slighly until it fit nicely.

 

[Phil1320]

I use a 90 style front mount! When I purchased my crossmember last year I was told I would need a 91-94 style. I figured I could either see what it would take to modify my 90 style, or if it was practical I could find a 91-94 mount.

I ended up modifying my 90 style mount, all I had to do was 'open up' the mount a bit to fit over the crossmember, once I opened it enough I bolted it up to the engine, and just marked around the outside of the crossmember on the inside of the mount on both sides. Than I marked center, transfered the mark to the outside of the mount, center punched and drilled a new hole for the bolt. It worked fine.

To open up the mount I just clamped it to my bench and used a torch to heat each ear up slighly and bend it slighly until it fit nicely.

Very cool, doesn't sound like it will take much to make it work....that's good! Less work, more driving!

Thanks for posting!

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Very cool, doesn't sound like it will take much to make it work....that's good! Less work, more driving!

Thanks for posting!

I'm still curious to see what you find phil. I've worked on a lot of DSM, and I've never noticed a difference between 90 and 91 including swapping stuff on my own 90 car. I have however found a lot of morons use the wrong mounts when they start swapping motors around between FWD, AWD, NT, etc cars.

 

[Phil1320]

I'm still curious to see what you find phil. I've worked on a lot of DSM, and I've never noticed a difference between 90 and 91 including swapping stuff on my own 90 car. I have however found a lot of morons use the wrong mounts when they start swapping motors around between FWD, AWD, NT, etc cars.

I should be going down to the shop tomorrow and will report back for sure.

Yeah, I've been around quite a few myself, worked at Extreme Motorsports for a short time and had several friends in the area with DSM based shops over the last 10 years, and never once have I heard of this either.

It's always that first year car that has to screw it up

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

I should be going down to the shop tomorrow and will report back for sure.

Yeah, I've been around quite a few myself, worked at Extreme Motorsports for a short time and had several friends in the area with DSM based shops over the last 10 years, and never once have I heard of this either.

It's always that first year car that has to screw it up

Yeah what gets me is that I know for a fact I have a 91 front bracket on my own car and it fits perfectly with the OEM 90 crossmember, and I do have all poly mounts too so it's not like the play is helping it fit. I've owned the car for almost 10 years and knew the previous owner who had it since the beginning of it's modded days and I know for a fact the crossmember was never swapped or anything. When I switched from 5 speed to auto I had to use 91+ style brackets since there was no 90 auto car, and they fit 100% hassle free. I'm also 99% certain that the 5 speed bracket I took off the motor, has the same part number as the other 91 front brackets I have laying around.

 

[Phil1320]

Yeah what gets me is that I know for a fact I have a 91 front bracket on my own car and it fits perfectly with the OEM 90 crossmember, and I do have all poly mounts too so it's not like the play is helping it fit. I've owned the car for almost 10 years and knew the previous owner who had it since the beginning of it's modded days and I know for a fact the crossmember was never swapped or anything. When I switched from 5 speed to auto I had to use 91+ style brackets since there was no 90 auto car, and they fit 100% hassle free. I'm also 99% certain that the 5 speed bracket I took off the motor, has the same part number as the other 91 front brackets I have laying around.

Weird man for sure. I didn't get the chance to get to the shop yesterday, it was crappy out, but I will try to make it down this afternoon. I will report my findings as soon as that happens.

Also, I think I'm actually going to do just the tubular crossmember for now. As I sift through everything I'm going to do to the car for 2011, the budget is near max. So, for now, while drag racing, I'll get the drag race specific piece. and save $175. When and if the car does road course stuff, worst case scenario I swap the stock stuff on as I won't be concerned with every last pound. If I can decide that I'm retiring my car from drag racing 100%, I'll sell my drag only piece and get the 3 piece set-up.

 

[Phil1320]

Check out the 3 pics:
-1st is my 90' bracket off of my car---the engine was never out so it's for sure a '90 bracket. Build date on my car is 6/90 which I'm pretty sure was the last month of produciton for 1990 model year cars.

-2nd shot is the "other" bracket...as you can see the number is 506, not 347 and the bolt hole is almost centered

-3rd shot is my bracket sitting in there on the crossmember near the "other" mount to show the bolt hole difference.

Now, funny thing is, both '92 and up cars at the shop had 90' motor swaps---and had the '90 mount like mine...so at first I'm likeWTF

Til that point I was batting zero and found nothing. Then we decide to look at the owners 1990 Talon---and that's where I found the 506 bracket. He recently got the car so we have no idea if that was original to the car--I'm guessing not, build date on his car in March 1990.

Either way, I found the "other" mount and that's the deal.......

....but nothing else looked different, the mount itself, the part that houses the rubber bushing, and the crossmember look the same.

So, WTF???? It seems they changed the angle that the engine sits on the '91 and up cars? Or the area on the block where the bracket mounts is different. I couldn't see up in that area. I'm lost......but, for sure there is some major differences in these cars........jeez.

Well, check em out and we can continue to investigate further. As promised:

 

[99gst_racer]

Thanks for the pictures, Phil.

The "347" bracket was what I had on my M/T '91 Talon. That seems to be the one that works best for these crossmembers, although I've heard claims that a "347" bracket will not work with the chromoly crossmember on a '90 model without redrilling the hole. At a glance, it appears that the "506" bracket might be a better fit for a '90 model trying to run one of these.

 

[Phil1320]

Thanks for the pictures, Phil.

The "347" bracket was what I had on my M/T '91 Talon. That seems to be the one that works best for these crossmembers, although I've heard claims that a "347" bracket will not work with the chromoly crossmember on a '90 model without redrilling the hole. At a glance, it appears that the "506" bracket might be a better fit for a '90 model trying to run one of these.

You got it!

Well then, that "347" bracket is not specific to only '90 models then or maybe it's only AWD '90 models.....? Most definitely the "506" bracket will better fit at least when I look at where that guy drilled his hole. Being that my talon is the last month of '90 production, I'm wondering if I got the 91+ bracket. The 347 bracket is the one you posted a picture of that the guy had to drill a new hole in.....we should ask him his build date. Like I said the "506" bracket you see pictured here was on a '90 Talon with a build date of March '90.

There's got to be more to this......because it's looking like your crossmember is better suited to the '90 bracket(if the 506 is truly that), not the '91-'94......

 

[99gst_racer]

There's got to be more to this......because it's looking like your crossmember is better suited to the '90 bracket(if the 506 is truly that), not the '91-'94......

Yeah, the weird thing is that when the "347" bracket is used with a 91-94 AWD car, the crossmember fits perfectly. I still don't know what's different on a '90 model to make the chromoly crossmember not line up with the 347 mount... I can't imagine the block sits any differently, so maybe the crossmember itself is a bit different?

 

[Phil1320]

Yeah, the weird thing is that when the "347" bracket is used with a 91-94 AWD car, the crossmember fits perfectly. I still don't know what's different on a '90 model to make the chromoly crossmember not line up with the 347 mount... I can't imagine the block sits any differently, so maybe the crossmember itself is a bit different?

Wow, this is weird huh? I had my crossmember down there, but I didn't get it next to one off one of the '92 cars...maybe I have to make another trip down there. We'll get it all ironed out....wonder if the block is actually different?

 

[wishihadatalon]

Those 3 numbers are the last 3 numbers of the part number for the bracket. Check in CAPS to see what the rear mount is and see if they are different. The rear mount will have as much of an impact as the front mount on engine fitment.

 

[Phil1320]

Those 3 numbers are the last 3 numbers of the part number for the bracket. Check in CAPS to see what the rear mount is and see if they are different. The rear mount will have as much of an impact as the front mount on engine fitment.

Makes sense. It obviously has something to do with the actual angle that the engine sits it seems. I'll try to check for differences in rear brackets too.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Phil, it looks like you found the same thing I already mentioned - the 90 and 91-94 brackets are the same.

I'd like to see what happens when you try to install the bar with your 347 bracket Phil.

Part of the problems you guys are seeing is due to mis-matched mounts.

Front mount brackets:

347 = 90-94 AWD MT
506 = 91-94 AWD Auto

346 = 90-94 FWD MT
595 = 91-94 FWD Auto

The rear ones are different for each application as well. People are stupid and don't pay attention to what they are using when they swap motors around and you end up with a bunch of mis-matched stuff on these old cars that have been passed around. That's a lot of people's "XXX part doesn't fit" problems.

I have all 91 brackets on my 90 AWD and everything lines up perfect. I don't see how the crossmember can't fit the same. The ONLY thing I can think of, would be a design difference that places the chromoly bar in a slightly different location on a 90. The mount itself is obviously in an identical spot between the two cars, but for the chromoly bar to not fit, it would mean that it is mounting to the 90 differently than a 91. Maybe there's some spacing differences that place the bar at a different height when mounted.

 

[Phil1320]

Phil, it looks like you found the same thing I already mentioned - the 90 and 91-94 brackets are the same.

I'd like to see what happens when you try to install the bar with your 347 bracket Phil.

Part of the problems you guys are seeing is due to mis-matched mounts.

Front mount brackets:

347 = 90-94 AWD MT
506 = 91-94 AWD Auto

346 = 90-94 FWD MT
595 = 91-94 FWD Auto

The rear ones are different for each application as well. People are stupid and don't pay attention to what they are using when they swap motors around and you end up with a bunch of mis-matched stuff on these old cars that have been passed around. That's a lot of people's "XXX part doesn't fit" problems.

I have all 91 brackets on my 90 AWD and everything lines up perfect. I don't see how the crossmember can't fit the same. The ONLY thing I can think of, would be a design difference that places the chromoly bar in a slightly different location on a 90. The mount itself is obviously in an identical spot between the two cars, but for the chromoly bar to not fit, it would mean that it is mounting to the 90 differently than a 91. Maybe there's some spacing differences that place the bar at a different height when mounted.

That's cool info, and you are 100% correct about mounts from this car ending up on that car

I agree, I don't see how it wouldn't fit the same either.....

I'll look at my car in the garage, and take a shot, and then run back down to the shop and inspect the stud area where the crossmember mounts on the '92 cars down there.....see if I can notice a difference, hell I'll take my tape measure too....

Well, I won't be installing my crossmember for quite some time. #1 I don't have it yet, have to wait til after the holidays....and #2 my car probably won't have an engine back in it til around May-June. But, if noone has reported findings here by then, I definitely will.

Can't wait to tell him he has an AUTO bracket on his M/T car

 

[turbo4awd]

Are you still selling these. If so i have a 90 mt awd what do i have to do to make these fit. One more thing have you guys ever continued the control arm fabbing.