New 3-pc crossmember - Thoughts?

[gixrman]

On a related note: I notice Full Race used aluminum suspension tubes on that design. I have this option as well, but I wasn't sure if they'd be strong enough. The aluminum tubes that I have available are a .156" wall thickness. They're a bit lighter, and quite a bit cheaper. And they're probably strong enough, but I figured I'd just use chromoly just to be sure that the strength was there. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

T6 aluminum tubing should be ok, depending the the stress factor. Alot of off road 4link control arms are T6 AL. They are short use items though so if they used for "off road use only" you should be ok. Street use, I'd go with chromoly.

 

[whe3ls]

thats pretty sick, makes me wish i had a 1g again.

 

[talontsi18]

Looks awesome Paul . I'll definately be buying a set when these are available. Thanks for putting in the work!

 

[turbotalon1g]

Nice, whats the price on these?

I Like the weight savings thats for sure and I have a '91 awd auto.

 

[Pirrofab]

Is it possible that the new design will be able to be ordered with just a front bar to start and then be able to add the north-south bars in the future? Say for instance I just wanted the front bar for drag racing and then add the north south bars when I want to go autox. I've been eyeing this for a while and this redesign may have just made me want to buy it

 

[Ludachris]

I like it Paul. I still would love to see a curved front bar so that I can push my lower radiator mounting points closer to the engine block, but this might be good enough.

Question - the north/south bars don't look like they attach at all the same points as the stock curved braces, specifically on the driver side. Is that right?

 

[Ludachris]

Front crossmember:
Factory - 12.0 lbs
Chromoly - 5.2 lbs


Drivers side north-south bar:
Factory - 5.7 lbs
Chromoly - 2.0 lbs


Passenger side north-south bar:
Factory - 4.9 lbs
Chromoly - 2.3 lbs


Totals:
Factory - 22.6
Chromoly - 9.5 lbs

Weight savings: 13.1 lbs (plus almost a full pound less fasteners)

This is a pretty big weight savings for these three pieces, not the mention the extra strength and space savings. Makes me think there has to be a lot of weight to be saved with a chromoly k-member, despite what some have said to the contrary.

 

[Calan]

... please refrain from asking about pricing at this point....

Ok...what's the price at THIS point?

J/king. PM sent.

 

[99gst_racer]

Is it possible that the new design will be able to be ordered with just a front bar to start and then be able to add the north-south bars in the future? Say for instance I just wanted the front bar for drag racing and then add the north south bars when I want to go autox. I've been eyeing this for a while and this redesign may have just made me want to buy it

If just the front bar is ordered, it won't have the 1/2" threaded attachment points welded in. But you could very well buy a 3-pc design, and then run it without the north/south bars whenever you please.

I like it Paul. I still would love to see a curved front bar so that I can push my lower radiator mounting points closer to the engine block, but this might be good enough.

Question - the north/south bars don't look like they attach at all the same points as the stock curved braces, specifically on the driver side. Is that right?

I'll definitely get you a curved version done, Chris. Just give me a month or two to pick up a bender. I'd really like to bend the bar myself so that I can determine the proper angles on the fly and make any tweaks that I see fit. I'm hoping you're not in a big hurry to get one with the winter season approaching.

Regarding attachment points; they're extremely close to the same location of the attachment points on the factory crossmember. And both bars to use existing mounting points on the subframe itself.

 

[99gst_racer]

This is a pretty big weight savings for these three pieces, not the mention the extra strength and space savings. Makes me think there has to be a lot of weight to be saved with a chromoly k-member, despite what some have said to the contrary.

Yeah, I would guess there's a healthy amount of weight to be saved with a chromoly subframe. Especially if it were made to use a chromoly lower control arm.

I have every intention of eventually tackling a subframe project, but I'll probably start with a 2G rear. I estimate that 75% of the work is going to be building the jig. If it goes smoothly, I'll consider doing some front subframes.

Ok...what's the price at THIS point?

J/king. PM sent.

PM replied.

 

[whe3ls]

if you did make a lower control arm, make the control arms like this you ccould cut even more weight out.

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[AndrewD5418]

I'd love to pick up the 3 piece design. I've been eyeballing your single one, but the 3 piece looks way better. PM me when they're available/price?

 

[tazndrew04]

im sure if you designed the same thing for the 2g cars they would sell also,might be something to look into,wish i had a 1g

 

[turbotalon1g]

I'd love to pick up the 3 piece design. I've been eyeballing your single one, but the 3 piece looks way better. PM me when they're available/price?

x2

 

[xezerax]

I am definatly interested in this, I was looking around here for your one piece recently and couldn't find it, but i like this better.

 

[dsmrollerz90]

Any pics of them on a car?

 

[99gst_racer]

Any pics of them on a car?

Not yet. I don't have my own lathe yet, so unfortunately I have to outsource bushing machinework. And it's been a slow process finding someone, getting them the material, and having an initial set machined. I'm really hoping to have the first set of bushings back by the weekend to test fit the crossmember on Dan's car. If all goes well, I'll get a quote from the machinist and have him get started on a large batch right away. I'll get 'installed' pictures posted as soon as I can.

 

[cjridert1]

Looking forward - keep us posted!!

 

[Phil1320]

Hi Paul- talontsi18 recently linked me to this thread to check out your front bar/solid mount set up based on what he read about my current plans for my Talon.

Needless to say, I'm definitely interested in a 3-piece design for current drag racing and future road course work. The weight savings is pretty significant, the pieces look amazing, and I really would like to run a solid front mount that is mated to a bar that can be mounted solid to the a-body. I think your set up will give me the best possible chance to cut 1.3X 60' times.

My car is currently coming apart and I was inches from buying the Prothane 13-505 front motor mount insert and purchasing another Prothane front subframe kit to use the smaller bushings to replace the stock bushings in the crossbar where it mounts to the body. But, I'm in no rush and would like to see what it will take to get your set up on my car. So, please, when all the details are ironed out, give me a PM. Thanks!

 

[99gst_racer]

Will do Phil.


The guy that is doing the bushing machining has been seriously dragging his feet, but I think he'll have a set finished sometime this week. I'm hoping to have pictures and more details by the weekend. If he doesn't come through, then I'll do whatever it takes to find a lathe and machine them myself just to get the ball rolling here.

 

[Phil1320]

Will do Phil.


The guy that is doing the bushing machining has been seriously dragging his feet, but I think he'll have a set finished sometime this week. I'm hoping to have pictures and more details by the weekend. If he doesn't come through, then I'll do whatever it takes to find a lathe and machine them myself just to get the ball rolling here.

Awesome. I'll wait for the pics/details and go from there. Bummer if he doesn't get his part done.

Also, just figured that if I don't run the north/south bars the total weight savings will be 17.4 lbs. plus the extra pound of factory hardware you quoted taking the total weight savings to almost 18.5 lbs., that's huge. When your car is as light as mine, it's hard to find that kind of weight loss in one shot.

Ok, talk to you soon. And, thanks!

 

[Ludachris]

Awesome. I'll wait for the pics/details and go from there. Bummer if he doesn't get his part done.

Also, just figured that if I don't run the north/south bars the total weight savings will be 17.4 lbs. plus the extra pound of factory hardware you quoted taking the total weight savings to almost 18.5 lbs., that's huge. When your car is as light as mine, it's hard to find that kind of weight loss in one shot.

Ok, talk to you soon. And, thanks!

Hey Phil, I've got a shop working on plans for tubular front control arms right now - even more front end weight savings! Some day we'll get someone to make a chomoly front sub frame, it's just a matter of time.

 

[burkgonzo]

Are these for sale? If so PM me with details! Thanks!

 

[99gst_racer]

Awesome. I'll wait for the pics/details and go from there. Bummer if he doesn't get his part done.

Also, just figured that if I don't run the north/south bars the total weight savings will be 17.4 lbs. plus the extra pound of factory hardware you quoted taking the total weight savings to almost 18.5 lbs., that's huge. When your car is as light as mine, it's hard to find that kind of weight loss in one shot.

Ok, talk to you soon. And, thanks!

Phil, if your car is a track-only straight line car, I honestly wouldn't even bother with the north/south bars. I'd keep it as light as possible and run only the front bar. There's more than 50 DSMers out there right now running only the chromoly front bar and nothing else. Many of these cars still see street duty and I haven't had a single reported issue with any of them. This 3-piece design is targeted more toward the DSM that corners, or the guy that wants the extra rigidity at the expense of a few extra lbs. of weight.


I just got a call that the machinist is too busy to come through, and is returning the raw material to me. So, I'll be on the phone all afternoon until I find a replacement machinist. Life sure would be easier if I could afford to put my own vertical mill and lathe in my garage.

Are these for sale? If so PM me with details! Thanks!

I'm shooting for no later than next week. I'll have an ad in the Freelancer section as soon as I get all the details squared away. I'll PM you when the time comes.

 

[Ludachris]

Phil, if your car is a track-only straight line car, I honestly wouldn't even bother with the north/south bars. I'd keep it as light as possible and run only the front bar. There's more than 50 DSMers out there right now running only the chromoly front bar and nothing else. Many of these cars still see street duty and I haven't had a single reported issue with any of them. This 3-piece design is targeted more toward the DSM that corners, or the guy that wants the extra rigidity at the expense of a few extra lbs. of weight.


I just got a call that the machinist is too busy to come through, and is returning the raw material to me. So, I'll be on the phone all afternoon until I find a replacement machinist. Life sure would be easier if I could afford to put my own vertical mill and lathe in my garage.


I'm shooting for no later than next week. I'll have an ad in the Freelancer section as soon as I get all the details squared away. I'll PM you when the time comes.

If you're expanding your search beyond local shops, you could check with "Hal" here on the forum. He does some CNC work and machining I believe, and would probably help you out. He lives in my area actually.