Resolved 2G - Could front caster be causing left pull?

[AZDSM]

I've noticed it since I came back from overseas in August. (car sat in garage for 9ish months) Swapped the 17" Konigs that were on it for 18" Evo BBS with brand new Continental ECS at end of August. Installed SPC upper control arms with Ingalls adjustable ball joints (yes I found a pair) about 3 weeks ago and noticed it actually reduced the pull, but not entirely. Then had it aligned about a week ago and the left pull is back to being obvious on any road. If I let go of the wheel I will enter the left lane in less than 5 seconds.

- Front upper control arms, lower control arms, lower lateral arms and inner/outer tie rods all have less than 2k miles on them.
- Rear toe arms and lower control arms are new with less than 2k as well.
- All parts are either OEM replacement or Moog (except for SPC obviously).

I am aware caster tends to be higher on the RF from the factory, which mine is by quite a bit. Would flipping the inner bushing on the LF add enough caster to offset the pull? I've read it's close to a degree of difference. Should I expect LF to go from 3.2 to 4.2?

Would flipping the RF bushing reduce caster? I'm wondering if I flipped both if they would be close to the same.

Caster is my best guess for the pull as most of my suspension is either new or in good condition, I have new tires and a recent alignment. Unless there's something else I'm not thinking of?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[Dericsh]

Try swapping the front tires with each other and see if it changes anything before you get too deep into suspension work.

 

[CKOPOCT]

Agree. I've run across more than a few "alignment pulls" that ended up being bad tires... even a couple of cases where those tires were new. If your tires are side specific, swap front to back.

Looking at your alignment it doesn't look as though you'd have a pulling issue - all numbers are within spec and the difference in caster won't cause an issue. Negative caster difference like yours won't cause the pull unless it's supremely out of spec.

I'm assuming the suspension is tight and the bushings are in good condition. Question: how much do you weigh?

I remember doing an alignment 3 times on a car and being madder than a wet hen because the customer kept bringing the car back complaining that it still drifted left. After alignment #4 I stormed into the office and saw my boss's cheesy grin... and the 350 lb customer. Lesson learned for me. Dude's weight was causing the issue. So I threw a bunch of weight in the driver's seat and readjusted the alignment. Problem solved.

Anywho - if swapping the tires doesn't have an effect I'd recommend getting the alignment checked at a different shop, just to double check the accuracy, before diving into the suspension you've already replaced. Might explain the issue to the shop and have them jounce the car after they check the numbers, just to see if the numbers change, thereby showing a weak component.

Love to hear what you find out.

 

[AZDSM]

I thought the ECS were directional for some reason, but they are not. So I'll definitely swap the fronts tomorrow and/or rotate fronts to back if that doesn't help.

I'm assuming the suspension is tight and the bushings are in good condition. Question: how much do you weigh?

I remember doing an alignment 3 times on a car and being madder than a wet hen because the customer kept bringing the car back complaining that it still drifted left. After alignment #4 I stormed into the office and saw my boss's cheesy grin... and the 350 lb customer. Lesson learned for me. Dude's weight was causing the issue. So I threw a bunch of weight in the driver's seat and readjusted the alignment. Problem solved.

Anywho - if swapping the tires doesn't have an effect I'd recommend getting the alignment checked at a different shop, just to double check the accuracy, before diving into the suspension you've already replaced. Might explain the issue to the shop and have them jounce the car after they check the numbers, just to see if the numbers change, thereby showing a weak component.

Love to hear what you find out.

The suspension is solid. I've been slowly working on a suspension restoration the last couple of years with like I said, OEM, Moog and some other aftermarket goodies plus prothane bushings.

I only weigh 170, so I'd be surprised if that was causing an issue.

I considered another shop because this Firestone doesn't have a good review reputation, but my experience last week wasn't bad at all and to my surprise they even offered to adjust the camber despite it being an aftermarket part (which they normally won't do). So that told me the mechanic wasn't completely dumb. But yeah, I'll swap the tires around and go from there.

Thanks for the responses.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

The front compression arm buses are put in backwards to mechanically effect caster, you can flip it to make it level again, i believe the drivers side is the problem but what one you do make sure it pushes it further forward for more caster vs closer to you.

 

[CKOPOCT]

Was thinking on it some more -- binding or draging brake will cause a pull. Failing results in the tires, maybe check brake temps front and rear on both sides to see if you are hotter on the left, indicating a brake drag.

 

[AZDSM]

No go with the tire swap. Still pulling. Decided to buy new rotors and pads as it's a long time overdue and the amount of brake dust that comes off is not normal (pretty sure it might actually be staining my rims). Have been needing to rebuild the e-brake hardware as well, which I've already got the kit for that years ago. A brembo swap is in my future, but I still have a lot of suspension work to do before that's ready. This will at least rule out binding or brake drag.

 

[Dericsh]

Bummer, I was hoping that would be it. Let us know how it goes with the brakes.

 

[CKOPOCT]

I, too, was hoping it was a tire. I like answers vs. mysteries.

 

[AZDSM]

I keep forgetting to update this topic, but I finally got the brake replacement finished mid-december. Rotors/pads all around+SS lines and new e-brake hardware. Took a few tries to get that dialed in to where it wasn't dragging.

Overall it's hard to say if it's any different. I want to say it helped a little, but then a few moments later it's like "nah gotcha sucka" and it'll pull as much as I remembered.

 

[DogWhistle]

Your pull can be very frustrating. Because it now comes and goes, and assuming brake drag isn’t an issue, you might consider the steering rack could be acting up.

Remove the PS pump belt and see if the car tracks straight.

 

[AZDSM]

Your pull can be very frustrating. Because it now comes and goes, and assuming brake drag isn’t an issue, you might consider the steering rack could be acting up.

Remove the PS pump belt and see if the car tracks straight.

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought of the steering rack for a pull issue.

 

[AZDSM]

Thought I'd provide an update for those interested.

I recently installed some new coilovers from Flatout Suspension, got them dialed in and in a couple days of driving I realized the pull I was experiencing was completely gone. I'm guessing one of the KYB coilovers I replaced was blown. They had been on the car since I bought it in 2013. Despite seeing less than 7,000 miles on them, I don't know how long they were on the car prior to that or how many miles they had seen. But the car drives straight and it's a much smoother ride now. Can't believe I waited so long to get new coilovers.

 

[Dericsh]

Thanks for the update, glad it’s resolved!

 

[CKOPOCT]

Thanks for letting us know. So often folks get something fixed or figured out and just drop off. Very glad it's resolved!