28-30 psi on an evo 3 16g

[mini zilo]

zitl

 

[dsmmike50t]

Theres a guy on the canadian forums running his e316g at 40psi with meth injection. He runs 11.6 on the track thats over 400whp for sure. Meth injection is the way to go.

 

[absolute_DSM]

Someones been reading Nates (from TPG Tuning) post about C16....

.... and the madness begins.


How to do it? Hold that damn wastegate shut and throw a bunch of fuel in

 

[DSMunknown]

Joe, I remember way back when you first picked up the E316G here. Good to see others wanting to push this to its limits. Unless you're very knowledgable, you're going to have trouble holding the PSI between 28 and 30. I would suggest the use of an external 'gate to help you out a bit.

Personally, I would only resort to Meth injection when I have exhausted all of my other resources.

 

[Steve93Talon]

I noticed little change in charge temps with meth injection using an autometer two channel air temp gauge with peak/hold/memory. You can lower charge temps by making a cold air inlet. You can also do a water/air intercooler and run ice at the track. You could add an intake manifold spacer. You could have the turbine housing, exhaust manifold, and o2 housing coated.

 

[biglady112]

AWDER on the board here was running 32psi at 6000ft above sea level with his.

His car at the time was using both straight E85 and Methonal injection. He can give you a few pointers, but it mainly involves holding the wastegate shut.

He was running 115-118mph at 5800ft in a full weight 2G. His race weight I believe is around 3300lbs with driver. That would be a low to mid 120mph car at the right elevation. We never got a chance to dyno the thing, but we would estimate somewhere around 420-435whp easy with that thing. Maybe a hair more, who knows, but it sure was fast for such a little turbo.

Steven

 

[mini zilo]

Someones been reading Nates (from TPG Tuning) post about C16....

.... and the madness begins.


How to do it? Hold that damn wastegate shut and throw a bunch of fuel in

A little inspiration never hurt anybody



As far as fuel, I will be running:

FIC 1000cc
e85
Walbro 255 high pressure
DSMLink to tune
Aeromotive fpr
And I am not sure yet what I am going to do as far as the size of the fuel lines.

 

[mini zilo]

[rawr

 

[Kevin Jewer]

If you're refering to the newest buschur IC it's all you'll need for drag racing. I used the EVO version on my 8. Even with the stock turbo completely pegged (WG held shut) there was no increase in post IC temps through third gear, and only about 10 through 4th. Picking up 10 degrees over an entire drag run is negligible. At that point it doesn't matter how hot the air coming out of the turbo is, that heat isn't making it to the chamber.

How much boost you can hold is entirely a function of airflow vs restricition. The higher the boost is, the higher the restriction is. Not really a good thing. On my EVO8 turbo I could hit 33-34 psi and taper to 29 or so on one set of cams, and hit 29 and drop to 26 on another set of cams. This is with the WG held shut. The lower boost situation was much faster at the track than the one at higher boost. Don't worry about boost, worry about airflow, and moving that airflow at the lowest boost possible.

 

[mini zilo]

If you're refering to the newest buschur IC it's all you'll need for drag racing. I used the EVO version on my 8. Even with the stock turbo completely pegged (WG held shut) there was no increase in post IC temps through third gear, and only about 10 through 4th. Picking up 10 degrees over an entire drag run is negligible. At that point it doesn't matter how hot the air coming out of the turbo is, that heat isn't making it to the chamber.

How much boost you can hold is entirely a function of airflow vs restricition. The higher the boost is, the higher the restriction is. Not really a good thing. On my EVO8 turbo I could hit 33-34 psi and taper to 29 or so on one set of cams, and hit 29 and drop to 26 on another set of cams. This is with the WG held shut. The lower boost situation was much faster at the track than the one at higher boost. Don't worry about boost, worry about airflow, and moving that airflow at the lowest boost possible.

Thank you for the information, I had no idea the Buschur FMIC kicked that much a**. That is awesome. Any tips on helping with my airflow? Bigger IC piping?

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Aside from adding displacement, cams and intake manifolds are the two biggest factors in airflow per boost pressure. At EVO16g flow levels most of the other stuff isn't going to be much of a bottleneck. The intake side is under pressure and doesn't move as much volume. Exhaust flow through the entire system is probably the next most important thing.

 

[2gGSX]

Aside from adding displacement, cams and intake manifolds are the two biggest factors in airflow per boost pressure. At EVO16g flow levels most of the other stuff isn't going to be much of a bottleneck. The intake side is under pressure and doesn't move as much volume. Exhaust flow through the entire system is probably the next most important thing.

In essence, more peak VE will help you out a lot (e.g. displacement, cams, intake manifolds, etc).

As far as the Buschur IC, I'm pretty sure it's the Garrett core part number 486827-6002, which is 23.7x12.0x3.8 and rated at 1000 hp. He had a lot of intake temp data from that core on a lot of high powered setups and the results were all amazing, and exactly as Kevin stated--roughly a 10 degree increase at most.

 

[Mikael SS]

A little inspiration never hurt anybody



As far as fuel, I will be running:

FIC 1000cc
e85
Walbro 255 high pressure
DSMLink to tune
Aeromotive fpr
And I am not sure yet what I am going to do as far as the size of the fuel lines.

3/8" will be more than enough for that pump. A lot of people spend a fortune on enormous braided lines, but it is just a huge waste. If you were to actually watch the flow from a return line at 40psi you'd know what i mean.

 

[420a-t]

Water and alky injection would be your best bet. If you wernt using race gas or e85, I'd say meth to bring down the knock count. Youre already running something that's better than pump gas, so water/alky would be your best bet.

If you don't have a very efficent intercooler, try using a dual nozzel setup. One before the IC and one on the TB elbow- just an idea.

Get a CAI fabbed up, or what I do is run without a passenger headlight at the track for a "ram air".

 

[slowgsr]

As far as the hot air, remember this.

For every 10 deg you increase your IAT's by you will require another full 1 point of octane rating, so that E85 will help with that, and as air becomes hotter the molecules spread out and your VE goes down, so its basically a viscous circle! Cam it, and upgrade the IM if you want to meet your goal of 400hp.

Why don't you use a bigger turbo? Oh yes you want to risk damaging your entire setup is there is a 'hickup' because you want to push That turbo, well good luck to you, hopefully you know EXACTLY what you need to do.. and judging by this post you don't.

Spray the intercooler, and you could use water/alcohol injection, just hope your pump dosen't ever fail.

You want the best possible way to get the air in and out of that engine, figure out what else needs to be done, sure.. you can make that power on that turbo because it has been done but its a stupid idea to run the turbo in that range, theres no reason to do it other then to say you did it, which isn't a significant reason IMO.

Stock lines will be fine, your only using a 255lph pump, if it would make you feel better sump the tank, but theres no reason to upgrade with that pump, spend the money on a better turbo for you goals, not fuel lines.

But do as you please.

 

[mini zilo]

lame

 

[pboglio]

I'd recommend MAF removal, via MAFt blowthru or speed density and 2g ARP headstuds for the power levels your shooting for.

Cooling the air down isn't going to be your main problem, keeping knock away is. And even if you improve your I.C. efficiency, it still wouldn't be your main problem. At 30 psi your running an effective 14.8:1 compression ratio, up from 13:1 if you were running 20 psi previously. Looks like E85 is equivalent to 100-105 octane gasoline. That "might" be cutting it close with 30 psi as far as octane is required.

 

[DSMunknown]

I'd recommend MAF removal, via MAFt blowthru or speed density and 2g ARP headstuds for the power levels your shooting for.

I would agree. The MAS is a fairly large restriction when you get picky and are looking for every tip and trick in the book. To reach your goal more easily, you're most likely going to have to go with the MAFT setup.

 

[daren_p]

Theres a guy on the canadian forums running his e316g at 40psi with meth injection. He runs 11.6 on the track thats over 400whp for sure. Meth injection is the way to go.

Yes there is a guy on the CDN DSM boards running his evoIII to 11.6's @ 120 mph on pump gas but last I heard he was running right around the 30 psi mark (& dropping to ~ mid 20's by redline) , not 40. I don't think its even possible to get 40psi out of an evoIII with the flapper wired shut. He isn't running some huge, super fancy FMIC either, just a typically sized Yonaka core. He is running a descent amount of meth to allow him to do this on pump.

 

[matthewdesigns]

I'm definitely interested in this project, mini zilo. I have an E316g and easy access to E85 as well, don't want to upgrade the turbo, and want to get as much out of it as possible. I'm hoping for 400 at the crank by the end of the summer. The 400 Whp you are looking for is going to be quite the journey

Good luck! And keep us posted....

 

[UofACATS]

I am setting my goal at 400 whp on my evo 3 16g.

I guess what my main question will be is what is the best way I can cool all that air off?

Efficient intercooling, and injection of some sort. To hit 400whp, I would use race gas. Is that an option, or are you trying to do it on pump?


The lines, I would go -8. Fuel, I would add an inline 044, and possibly 1600s depending on IDCs and the possible use of meth. Best way to accomplish this goal is to procede and battle issues as they arise. Get logs of your pulls.

As far as the hot air

))

 

[90laserRSfwd]

400whp on an E316g is easy... (jk, keep us posted)

 

[Burnett03]

Efficient intercooling, and injection of some sort. To hit 400whp, I would use race gas.


))

Why? He's using e-85 which is 105 octane.

 

[Burnett03]

I'm definitely interested in this project, mini zilo. I have an E316g and easy access to E85 as well, don't want to upgrade the turbo, and want to get as much out of it as possible. I'm hoping for 400 at the crank by the end of the summer. The 400 Whp you are looking for is going to be quite the journey

Good luck! And keep us posted....

I'm also shooting for over 400hp on e-85 and a 16g.. If i don't get it i'll just turn my bottle on and ge it.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Theres a guy on the canadian forums running his e316g at 40psi with meth injection. He runs 11.6 on the track thats over 400whp for sure. Meth injection is the way to go.

I really really doubt a 16g will ever be able to produce more than 35 lbs of pressure regardless...

Someones been reading Nates (from TPG Tuning) post about C16....

.... and the madness begins.

The numbers TPG are saying they're throwing out is a different story...

Joe, I remember way back when you first picked up the E316G here. Good to see others wanting to push this to its limits. Unless you're very knowledgable, you're going to have trouble holding the PSI between 28 and 30. I would suggest the use of an external 'gate to help you out a bit.

Personally, I would only resort to Meth injection when I have exhausted all of my other resources.

Agree, the main battle i think at this level is getting the damn turbo to hold boost longer while still getting maximum air flow per psi.

If you're refering to the newest buschur IC it's all you'll need for drag racing. I used the EVO version on my 8. Even with the stock turbo completely pegged (WG held shut) there was no increase in post IC temps through third gear, and only about 10 through 4th. Picking up 10 degrees over an entire drag run is negligible. At that point it doesn't matter how hot the air coming out of the turbo is, that heat isn't making it to the chamber.

How much boost you can hold is entirely a function of airflow vs restricition. The higher the boost is, the higher the restriction is. Not really a good thing. On my EVO8 turbo I could hit 33-34 psi and taper to 29 or so on one set of cams, and hit 29 and drop to 26 on another set of cams. This is with the WG held shut. The lower boost situation was much faster at the track than the one at higher boost. Don't worry about boost, worry about airflow, and moving that airflow at the lowest boost possible.

Excellent post as usual.
Thats good to know that the Buschar FMIC is that efficient. This would also be a good idea
for the pump gas only people trying to get the most out of their setups.

As far as the hot air, remember this.

For every 10 deg you increase your IAT's by you will require another full 1 point of octane rating

I didnt know that .

I'd recommend MAF removal, via MAFt blowthru or speed density and 2g ARP headstuds for the power levels your shooting for.

Cooling the air down isn't going to be your main problem, keeping knock away is. And even if you improve your I.C. efficiency, it still wouldn't be your main problem. At 30 psi your running an effective 14.8:1 compression ratio, up from 13:1 if you were running 20 psi previously. Looks like E85 is equivalent to 100-105 octane gasoline. That "might" be cutting it close with 30 psi as far as octane is required.

Agree.

Get a CAI fabbed up, or what I do is run without a passenger headlight at the track for a "ram air".

Forget that headlight modding stuff... Do a true Cold air intake
I did it and was able to get 2 more psi to redline on my e316g.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bol...ld-air-intake-done-right-5.html#post151338731


I think my car should be putting out around 320 awhp now on straight pump gas ever since i upped the boost, and retuned it.

OP, for you the smim will be a better choice in making maximum power,

Another member here (pbolgio) told me he was using a T28 told me by running no restriction in front of his turbo and by using the HRC 17 psi w.g. actuator he was able to hold another 2-3 psi to redline.
(23 to redline when set to 25lbs. He was heavily modded as well. )

Anywho, That right there alone is significant at these levels, therefore the gm maft set up and running external w.g. will definitly do great in helping to max out the set up.

Good luck