16g turbo upgrade

[mathew82284]

I just bought a 16g turbo from a coo worker, it has no shaft play and works good i have a stock gsx with some small things, 1g bov(not installed yet) turbo timer, boost gauge. what else do i need to complete my install? I was looking at a 2g install kit on turbochargers.com what do i need exactly? Will all my stock pipes and filter box still fit? Im not looking to make super power and id like to keep it at a low boost level like 12psi maybe 15max. Can i keep my stock fuel system? What about intercooler? Also do i really need all those items in the 2g install kit to make it work? Or could i just upgrade the oil lines and water lines and gaskets? Any help is verry much appreshiated. Thanks

 

[kenamond]

Ok thanks thats what i was looking for. Is it really $150 for it? ive seen a 6.5inch filter for $45 do you know a cheaper place to purchase it?

Here is a picture of it installed in my car. It's about as big of a filter as you can fit in there. It's probably about 12"x6" if you look end-on at it. But go with whatever your budget allows.

 

[mathew82284]

Here is a picture of it installed in my car. It's about as big of a filter as you can fit in there. It's probably about 12"x6" if you look end-on at it. But go with whatever your budget allows.

I the price is ok it looks worth it. I was looking at your mods and you have the big 28 hows that turbo? Are you running the stock fuel system and exhaust? If so hows it run? What boost are you running? Have you reached fuel cut? Did you do the fuel pump rewire? Does the car feel alot faster than the stock t-25?

 

[kenamond]

I the price is ok it looks worth it. I was looking at your mods and you have the big 28 hows that turbo? Are you running the stock fuel system and exhaust? If so hows it run? What boost are you running? Have you reached fuel cut? Did you do the fuel pump rewire? Does the car feel alot faster than the stock t-25?

Bottom line is that it's too soon to tell. I'm still tracking down boost leaks (actually, waiting on injector insulators in the mail so that I can fix that leak). I'm still running stock boost but with the BCS restrictor removal (boost gauge is reading ~12-13psi). I'll get an MBC after I eliminate all of my leaks. I ported my ex. mani, turbine, and o2 housings, but I'll need a 2.5 or 3" exhaust to take full advantage of that. And I need to pick some logger software before I turn anything up. Then I'll probably get a Supra SMIC. I bought this car new, so it's still my baby, so I'm taking my time and doing things as right as I can.

I fixed all of the huge boost leaks (TB and PCV), and it does run stronger than stock now. If I had to guess, maybe 30hp more, but all of that will change when I get the MBC, exhaust, SMIC, and logger and crank up the boost. I wish I could tell you what it'll do when I'm done, but you asked about 2 months too soon .

 

[2gGSX]

I the price is ok it looks worth it. I was looking at your mods and you have the big 28 hows that turbo? Are you running the stock fuel system and exhaust? If so hows it run? What boost are you running? Have you reached fuel cut? Did you do the fuel pump rewire? Does the car feel alot faster than the stock t-25?

I can try to help answer your questions since my previous turbo was an Evo III (before my last mods which were the FMIC and Evo III in essence).

While I was on the stock fuel system I kept the boost at 16 psi and I had no fuel cut--although it was possible at higher boost pressures (as I found out while setting my MBC the first time).
Based on DSMLink (which I DID install along with my new injectors). What I had found out from logs was that:
1. I was flowing 28 lbs/min at 16 psi boost, which is about 5-6 lbs/min higher than maximum flow on a T25
2. I was at 65.8% IDC on Denso 660's, which equates to between 434 cc/min to 447 cc/min depending on how much you want to believe these injectors actually flow (they are purported to actually be closer to flowing 680 cc/min). This translates to 96.4-99.3% IDC on stock injectors.
3. I was stuck with knock above 6k RPM which was impossible for me to tune out. I did some math and found out that I was starting to outflow my stock fuel pump (which is not rewired)

In a nutshell, at 16 psi and 28 lbs/min airflow I was pushing the car to the furthest limits of the stock fuel system, but was making about 60 HP over the highest T25 number I've ever seen (220). Thus I would recommend this turbo highly as an intermediate between stock and a first real upgrade (the smallest of which I considered was an Evo III, up to the mid-sized turbos such as a hybrid "50 trim"). This turbo did not kill off my clutch (although I rarely launch it) and overall was pretty nice for what it was. Feel free to PM me or post for any additional information you may want.

 

[mathew82284]

I can try to help answer your questions since my previous turbo was an Evo III (before my last mods which were the FMIC and Evo III in essence).

While I was on the stock fuel system I kept the boost at 16 psi and I had no fuel cut--although it was possible at higher boost pressures (as I found out while setting my MBC the first time).
Based on DSMLink (which I DID install along with my new injectors). What I had found out from logs was that:
1. I was flowing 28 lbs/min at 16 psi boost, which is about 5-6 lbs/min higher than maximum flow on a T25
2. I was at 65.8% IDC on Denso 660's, which equates to between 434 cc/min to 447 cc/min depending on how much you want to believe these injectors actually flow (they are purported to actually be closer to flowing 680 cc/min). This translates to 96.4-99.3% IDC on stock injectors.
3. I was stuck with knock above 6k RPM which was impossible for me to tune out. I did some math and found out that I was starting to outflow my stock fuel pump (which is not rewired)

In a nutshell, at 16 psi and 28 lbs/min airflow I was pushing the car to the furthest limits of the stock fuel system, but was making about 60 HP over the highest T25 number I've ever seen (220). Thus I would recommend this turbo highly as an intermediate between stock and a first real upgrade (the smallest of which I considered was an Evo III, up to the mid-sized turbos such as a hybrid "50 trim"). This turbo did not kill off my clutch (although I rarely launch it) and overall was pretty nice for what it was. Feel free to PM me or post for any additional information you may want.

Have you rewired your stock fuel pump? And how much more flow does it give if you do? How much are injectors and what size should i be looking for? I only want my car to run 12.9 or 13.0 flat just enough to beet the mustangs and camaros.

 

[2gGSX]

I have not rewired my stock fuel pump since I've been really busy with school still since winter break. I'm waiting to drop in a Walbro 190 and rewire it at the same time. I'll try to relay the data as well as possible:

Fuel Pressure
Pump 43psi 58psi 73psi
Stock 130.60 99.68 50.47
Rewired 156.47 131.23 88.33

All flow is in lph, and 58 psi and 73 psi fuel pressures is flow at 15 psi boost and 30 psi boost. As you can see there is a consistent increase in flow throughout, especially in the higher fuel pressure range.

For your goal 550cc injectors are completely fine, although if you ever decide to switch to an Evo III 16g or beyond you will run out of injector. The cost for 550cc injectors that I've seen sold privately range from 150 to 250, and even new they're around 250. A cheap alternative is to buy them off an Evo VIII owner who upgraded as they come stock with have reportedly been flowed at 580cc/min, which would be a good match for your goals.

Fuel pump wise, a rewired stock 2g will not be enough. For your goals (and basically anything under 400 hp) a Walbro 190 would be enough for you. At 20 psi they flow 3.627 lbs/min of fuel, which will support just under 40 lbs/min airflow which you probably won't attain or even need for a 12.9. Rewiring it would not be very difficult or even expensive if you have a shop do it however, and that is advisable.

Needless to say, you will need fuel control to control the new injectors. Again, for your needs and the aforementioned injectors, an AFC/logger combo would work fine. That isn't to say buying an EPROM and switching to DSMLink isn't better, but you can spend the extra money somewhere else. I hope this helps, let me know if you need anything else.

 

[mathew82284]

Thanks for all the information, One Thing though is i already have the evo III 16g its just not installed yet, I want to get all the upgrades i need to get before i tackle the install. You said 550 injectors wont be enough for a 16g is that right? Then maybe i should get the next set up or will 550 handle what im trying to get? How much boost do you think it will take to run 12.9? Do i need to upgrade my intercooler? I heard the stock one can handle upto 400 (not sure if true or not) When i bought the car they had a amp kit installed already and i upgraded that to 2g so i still have the left over 10g so its all ready set up for the rewire i just need the relay and the install will be easy. Also i bought a palm of ebay just now and im looking for a cable will this one work??

http://www.scantool.net/products/product_info.php?cPath=5&products_id=22

 

[2gGSX]

I originally thought you were going with a big 28. The truth is the Evo III will begin to push the capabilities of 550cc injectors with something that can flow as much as an Evo III. I stand by my advice though that these injectors will be enough for you (short of you having a freak setup that flows 38 to 40 lbs/min at 20 psi with this turbo).

Assuming you don't go further with this setup such as cams or a SMIM, at 20 psi on an Evo III most people that I've talked to have logged 34 to 36 lbs/min airflow which is more or less what I would expect if I were you. In this case, calculating injector requirements (theoretically) based on 36 lbs/min airflow, at 10.8:1 AFR you'll need ~2000 cc/min of fuel, or 500 cc/min per injector. Thus your IDCs based on this would be 91% if you were to use true 550cc injectors (or 86% of you decide on the Denso Evo VIII injectors which supposedly flow 580cc/min).

There are more than a few people who will advise you to step up to bigger injectors, which by all means isn't wrong as it provides you room to grow as well as lowers your IDCs, but it isn't the least necessary path which is what you asked me for.

As far as intercooler choice, the stock SMIC will definitely not support constant 400 whp pulls. My suggestion would be a FMIC, although an upgraded SMIC such as the one Dejon Tool (www.dejonpowerhouse.com) offers or a MKIV Supra SMIC will work as well although they have the obvious disadvantages of any other SMIC such as insufficient airflow or smaller size. Thus my suggestion would be to either build your own setup or buy the ETS 7" kit (http://www.extremeintercoolers.com/2g_7_kits.htm). Basically what I am saying is for your goals you do not need a 1200 dollar FMIC setup, and the cheaper you can find it the more money you can use to buy other parts.

 

[mathew82284]

I originally thought you were going with a big 28. The truth is the Evo III will begin to push the capabilities of 550cc injectors with something that can flow as much as an Evo III. I stand by my advice though that these injectors will be enough for you (short of you having a freak setup that flows 38 to 40 lbs/min at 20 psi with this turbo).

Assuming you don't go further with this setup such as cams or a SMIM, at 20 psi on an Evo III most people that I've talked to have logged 34 to 36 lbs/min airflow which is more or less what I would expect if I were you. In this case, calculating injector requirements (theoretically) based on 36 lbs/min airflow, at 10.8:1 AFR you'll need ~2000 cc/min of fuel, or 500 cc/min per injector. Thus your IDCs based on this would be 91% if you were to use true 550cc injectors (or 86% of you decide on the Denso Evo VIII injectors which supposedly flow 580cc/min).

There are more than a few people who will advise you to step up to bigger injectors, which by all means isn't wrong as it provides you room to grow as well as lowers your IDCs, but it isn't the least necessary path which is what you asked me for.

As far as intercooler choice, the stock SMIC will definitely not support constant 400 whp pulls. My suggestion would be a FMIC, although an upgraded SMIC such as the one Dejon Tool (www.dejonpowerhouse.com) offers or a MKIV Supra SMIC will work as well although they have the obvious disadvantages of any other SMIC such as insufficient airflow or smaller size. Thus my suggestion would be to either build your own setup or buy the ETS 7" kit (http://www.extremeintercoolers.com/2g_7_kits.htm). Basically what I am saying is for your goals you do not need a 1200 dollar FMIC setup, and the cheaper you can find it the more money you can use to buy other parts.

would these work with the data logger and safc setup?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Prec...yZ107063QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[2gGSX]

While those injectors would work with the logger and AFC setup, 660cc injectors are considered just about the maximum size controllable with the AFC.

To understand why this is you should understand how the AFC and piggybacks in general work. They mask airflow seen by the ECU, which in turn causes them to pull fuel (thus the negative compensation in order to run larger injectors). When controlling 660cc injectors, which require a -32% compensation (1-450/660), you are pulling out so much air that the stock ECU then attempts to add more timing. Thus, high boost and lots of additional timing will cause knock.

I'm not telling you you can't run those injectors with an AFC/logger combo, but if it were my car I would look towards a chip or DSMLink (which I eventually got).