ECMlink WOT - really need help dialing in!

[fmars62]

Hey guys, i really need help dialing in my wot, this will be the 4th time i try to adjust them but my wideband doest seem like its getting any closer to the AFRatioEst.

I am running rich, and i knocked a little once.

I attached my log

 

[Calan]

Your TPS hasn't been adjusted, and you have global fuel set to "0" with 650cc injectors?

Sounds like you need slow down, start from the beginning and do a lot of reading.

Start with this: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/ecm...efore-you-ask-ecmlink-dsmlink-log-advice.html

 

[KFred 513]

Calan, I've been helping him over the phone, but haven't been able to check out logs because I don't have internet access with my computer.

When the globals were in line with 610cc (what I was told they were) the idle was off the charts lean and 20% had to be added to the 50hz slider to get trims/afr in check. 650cc global settings would have only leaned the car out more, so I am certain they are not that big.

Since the Previous Owner was claiming the injectors were 610 I decided we should try stock injector settings just to see. Everything seemed to fall into place, with minimal adjustments, making it look like the injectors were not the stated size.

A day of thinking after setting up the baseline on 450s I realized they are likely evo 510cc since 610s are basically non-existent, and clues suggest that injectors are flowing a little more than stock 450s.

I forgot to scale the tps. Not being able to see the logs makes it tough to catch some of the things noticed with a good once over. I'm not really sure what is going on with the rich AFR during WOT. could the TPS scaling cause that?

 

[Calan]

20% had to be added to the 50hz slider to get trims/afr in check.

This is text book for a vac leak; specifically a VC breather that is open to atmosphere. An open breather won't show up on a BLT, but will cause a lean condition at 50hz....usually around 15-20% from what I've seen.

I'm not really sure what is going on with the rich AFR during WOT. could the TPS scaling cause that?

If airflow calibration is in the ball park, this would make perfect sense if he is running larger injectors with a stock global setting.

*****

It's very difficult to accurately tune a car remotely, even with logs to view. There is just too much info lost in the translation, especially if the person on the car end of the phone doesn't have a lot of experience. I suggest at least finding a way to view the logs before making suggestions over a phone call.

Not that the effort isn't appreciated of course.

 

[KFred 513]

So when you say a vc vent, even a vented catch catch can could cause a lean condition? Could you explain that a little more?

So would you be inclined to think that the injectors are in fact 610 or 650 since both numbers were reported? I didn't think the maf adjustments for cruise looked that far off. I am more proficient with speed density so maybe the table is farther from where it should be than I thought.

It just seemed to me that the Evo injectors are such a cheap/common swap that the previous owner may have mixed the numbers up in his head over time. The car was previously tuned on an SAFC. I guess that tracking that leak down and starting back at global settings is what needs to be done.

yes making suggestions over the phone was tough even with the live "play by play" as we made adjustments. Trying to tune out mechanical issues never seems to work out Lol.

 

[Calan]

So when you say a vc vent, even a vented catch catch can could cause a lean condition? Could you explain that a little more?

Note that this only applies if the PCV valve is still in place, but...

When the car is idling or cruising in vacuum, air is being pulled through the VC via the PCV valve into the intake manifold to ventilate the crankcase. If the vent port on the VC is connected to an open catch can (or just has a breather hanging off of it), that air is being pulled from the engine bay and hasn't been measured by the ECU.

On a stock setup, that vent is tied to the intake after the MAF, so the ECU can account for that air entering the engine. Otherwise, there is more air entering the engine than the ECU knows about, so the car runs lean. It won't show up on a boost leak test because air travels that path in one direction, only while in vacuum. It is most noticable at low airflow, and normally shows up as a lean spike at around 30-50hz.

So would you be inclined to think that the injectors are in fact 610 or 650 since both numbers were reported?

I wouldn't even try to guess. They need to be positively, physically identified and/or flow tested if possible....or swapped to a known set.

Trying to tune out mechanical issues never seems to work out Lol.

Exactly!

 

[KFred 513]

Note that this only applies if the PCV valve is still in place, but...

When the car is idling or cruising in vacuum, air is being pulled through the VC via the PCV valve into the intake manifold to ventilate the crankcase. If the vent port on the VC is connected to an open catch can (or just has a breather hanging off of it), that air is being pulled from the engine bay and hasn't been measured by the ECU.

On a stock setup, that vent is tied to the intake after the MAF, so the ECU can account for that air entering the engine. Otherwise, there is more air entering the engine than the ECU knows about, so the car runs lean. It won't show up on a boost leak test because air travels that path in one direction, only while in vacuum. It is most noticable at low airflow, and normally shows up as a lean spike at around 30-50hz.



I wouldn't even try to guess. They need to be positively, physically identified and/or flow tested if possible....or swapped to a known set.



Exactly!

Right, I'm tracking now. Wasn't thinking in terms of an existing PCV valve. The stock PCV is intact, no open vent. I think there has to be a boost leak causing both the lean idle, and rich wot now knowing what I know. You and i were both assuming a leak free intake but i just found out a BLT hasn't been done. A traditional leak (non PCV related) would explain both issues, correct? The unknown injector size still presents a problem, but he is going to 1000cc soon anyway during an hx35 swap so that will remove the guess work.

As always, thanks for the insight Craig

 

[Calan]

OP - Can't stress this enough:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/ecm...efore-you-ask-ecmlink-dsmlink-log-advice.html

Both for your sake and Fred's.

 

[black97spyder]

On a stock setup, that vent is tied to the intake after the MAF, so the ECU can account for that air entering the engine. Otherwise, there is more air entering the engine than the ECU knows about, so the car runs lean. It won't show up on a boost leak test because air travels that path in one direction, only while in vacuum. It is most noticable at low airflow, and normally shows up as a lean spike at around 30-50hz.

I know this sounds stupid of me to ask, what do you do with the port that comes off the VC and recirculates back to the intake when you do a BLT on the turbo inlet?

do u leave that port open and let it blow pressure out or do u block it off during a BLT to keep the air from escaping?

I have a vented VC now because I was tired of oil getting in my turbo inlet, being blown throughout my I/C piping and building up in my I/C core but will change that tomorrow and recirculate it back to the intake after the MAF. Thanks for the info!

 

[Calan]

do u leave that port open and let it blow pressure out or do u block it off during a BLT to keep the air from escaping?

You have to block it; otherwise you are losing boost pressure through that "leak".

I was tired of oil getting in my turbo inlet, being blown throughout my I/C piping and building up in my I/C core

See my signature.

 

[black97spyder]

You have to block it; otherwise you are losing boost pressure through that "leak".



See my signature.

Okay thats what ive been doing, glad to know I was doing it right

I would love one of those beautiful catch cans of yours but im currently looking for a job since graduating college so im on a VERY tight budget

Ive been wanting one of your catch cans since I first seen one here on tuners!!