why such low numbers from holset? (quest for 450whp turbo)

[boostadd1ct]

doing some search on holset bep .55 hx40 and hx35
and found this.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...esults-only-complete-installed-systems-3.html

im curious as to why peoples dyno numbers are bellow 400whp with such a big turbo?

I mean I understand that the bolt on .55 housing is limiting its potential but how can it only produce the same amount of power as a e316g at about the same psi?

 

[boostadd1ct]

I just looked at bastarddsm mod list.... pretty sure its way over what im thinking is a basic bolt on .

Ive seen his post plenty of times and i think he was the one that i kept seeing that swears by hy turbos. and i can see why.

if you dont mind. can you post a complete mod list?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

His setups are pretty simple, really, from what he's shared and has in his profile.

The most radical bit I suppose would be dual rails, and really if you can weld or now someone who does its not super expensive and that's not too hard to setup. He's running ostrich with a MAP and a Wideband per his profile and then some transmission work on top of a few suspension/chassis mods and bushings.

I do the same thing where I can... the HX52 and the necessities required for my sport don't always let me stick to the K.I.S.S principal though.

 

[boostadd1ct]

quick of topic.

I was considering this sbr g50.
REBUILT SBR G50 (T04E 50-trim) Bolt-on Turbo - DSM Classifieds

I know its older turbo. but was curious how it would compare to a mitsu bep hx35(7blade) and bep mitsu hx40?

at my 450whp goal I think I would have a harder time getting there with the g50 right?

 

[dsmcurse]

bastarddsm, 600plus is quite impressive. you have two thumbs up from me! general rule of thumb is you can NEVER have to much horsepower. your about 70-80 hp greater than me. but i push four wheels not two. either way you got my respect. its obvious this guy knows what he's talkin about as not many people break the 600whp mark on 4bangers. good job!

what are your opinions on bep .55 housing with 3" turbo back exhaust and a boost activated cut out to bleed of some of the high back pressure? i personally think 450 whp shouldnt be to hard to hit with that housing if the engine had degreed high profile cams with a capable water meth system

 

[bastarddsm]

Yeah I need to update, but it's pretty basic.

at 604whp I was running:
HY35 on a turbonetics style manifold, with the holset internal gate.
JMF intercooler like 24x12x4
3" exhaust
Home made SMIM, stock intake with plenum cut off and a 4" tube welded on
Dual fuel rails 750's and 450's Not staged yet, both fire the same amount, n/t regulators for 47psi bfp
Dual 255's in parallel
MSD DISII
Quartermaster
Built trans
Eagles/Wiseco's
DKS 272's
Kiggly street Beehives
MAFT with an ostrich on a 1g ecu, but I am running a custom bin that uses a map sensor to index the timing and fuel maps.

Thats it. As for the intake/fuel rail setup, I think any intake other than stock would be fine. (Evo3, JMF Magnus ect...) The staged injectors I just did because I could, and I didn't want to buy some 1200's.

The kiggly behives aren't needed either, bc or manley singles would be fine. I was running stockers 8000RPM.

The intercooler and no maf before the turbo are keys to making big power. Also I had 2 255's in series and it was only good for about 550whp on E85, I had to switch to parallel afterwards. My tuning setup is pretty elaborate, but the same thing could be accomplished by ECMlink.

My first holset setup was a wh1c in a 16cm housing on a sfp t4 mani, with a $59 ebay intercooler, stock intake, DS-MAP, 750's, 1 255, XTD clutch, and it went 11.75@122

 

[J_HEATH]

Because holset turbos are designed for diesel motors. If you can't afford a decent turbo designed for your motor save up your pennies until you can. Making 400whp with a holset that has the lag of a T6 GT42R turbo is a waste of money. You'd be better off and have more fun with a FP Green, Red, or FP3065. One of those turbos would spool quicker and make more power than a shitty hobo (holset) turbo.

 

[bastarddsm]

bastarddsm, 600plus is quite impressive. you have two thumbs up from me! general rule of thumb is you can NEVER have to much horsepower. your about 70-80 hp greater than me. but i push four wheels not two. either way you got my respect. its obvious this guy knows what he's talkin about as not many people break the 600whp mark on 4bangers. good job!

what are your opinions on bep .55 housing with 3" turbo back exhaust and a boost activated cut out to bleed of some of the high back pressure? i personally think 450 whp shouldnt be to hard to hit with that housing if the engine had degreed high profile cams with a capable water meth system

It's 4wd, first AWD swap 1g. That should hit 450 no problem. I guess the point of my posts, is that the turbo is a very small part of the setup. It's all gotta be there to make power.

That cutout should help, I had a flowmaster on mine, and dropping the cat back was worth about 3lbs/min at 25psi on my HY. taking the muffler off and leaving the pipe on was worth 2lbs/min. So just an open 3" pipe holds back 1lb/min in the 45lb/min area. I have since but a straight thru muffler on it.

Some guys are just getting a 60mm ebay wastegate and putting it on the dp..

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Because holset turbos are designed for diesel motors. If you can't afford a decent turbo designed for your motor save up your pennies until you can. Making 400whp with a holset that has the lag of a T6 GT42R turbo is a waste of money. You'd be better off and have more fun with a FP Green, Red, or FP3065. One of those turbos would spool quicker and make more power than a shitty hobo (holset) turbo.

This is what pure, unbridled ignorance looks like.

 

[bastarddsm]

Because holset turbos are designed for diesel motors. If you can't afford a decent turbo designed for your motor save up your pennies until you can. Making 400whp with a holset that has the lag of a T6 GT42R turbo is a waste of money. You'd be better off and have more fun with a FP Green, Red, or FP3065. One of those turbos would spool quicker and make more power than a shitty hobo (holset) turbo.

You have no clue.

A bolt on hx35 will run circles around an old school green. MY current HY35 runs circles around the new FP HTA Green, in both spool and power. The HE351 that's on there now appears better than the FP Red.

Just because 90% of the guys that run holsets have a hodge podge setup that leaves a lot on the table doesn't mean the turbo's are junk. Most of the low power holset setups wouldn't run any better with any other turbo.

 

[JusMX141]

I was considering this sbr g50.
REBUILT SBR G50 (T04E 50-trim) Bolt-on Turbo - DSM Classifieds

I know its older turbo. but was curious how it would compare to a mitsu bep hx35(7blade) and bep mitsu hx40?

Not even close to being in the realm of a HX40, and quite underpowered compared to the HX35 which has nearly the same compressor spec.

The G50 began in an era at least 4 or 5 years before the bolt-on HX35/40 was ever conceived.

 

[JusMX141]

Because holset turbos are designed for diesel motors. If you can't afford a decent turbo designed for your motor save up your pennies until you can.

I've seen this said so many times and it's complete bullshit. The old-school FP Greens and Reds used one type of diesel compressor wheel mated to a diesel turbine wheel that was machined into a vehicle-specific turbine housing. Guess what the HX35 and HX40 are?

Making 400whp with a holset that has the lag of a T6 GT42R turbo is a waste of money. You'd be better off and have more fun with a FP Green, Red, or FP3065. One of those turbos would spool quicker and make more power than a shitty hobo (holset) turbo.

So mid-9's and 151mph on a $435 turbo just isn't enough any more...now we need to talk spool numbers. The haters just need something new to bi*** about all the time it seems....and now it's down to comparing journal bearing production turbos to purpose-built ball bearing units at three times the price.

The HX40 in a Bullseye housing spools around 4200-4400 in 3rd on flat ground depending on setup and how healthy the engine is. I've seen this on more than one application....if it spooled at 5k then nobody would use it. The HX40 is also capable of around 65 lb/min in that particular bolt-on housing....which means it costs less, spools quicker, and makes more total airflow than the old 60-1 DSM Red from ten years ago.

Technology's a bi***, isn't it?

 

[dsmcurse]

Because holset turbos are designed for diesel motors. If you can't afford a decent turbo designed for your motor save up your pennies until you can. Making 400whp with a holset that has the lag of a T6 GT42R turbo is a waste of money. You'd be better off and have more fun with a FP Green, Red, or FP3065. One of those turbos would spool quicker and make more power than a shitty hobo (holset) turbo.

to bad your all the way down in BFE alabama otherwise id love to drive my POS holeset hx40 down there and race you.

I've seen this said so many times and it's complete bullshit. The old-school FP Greens and Reds used one type of diesel compressor wheel mated to a diesel turbine wheel that was machined into a vehicle-specific turbine housing. Guess what the HX35 and HX40 are?

So mid-9's and 151mph on a $435 turbo just isn't enough any more...now we need to talk spool numbers. The haters just need something new to bi*** about all the time it seems....and now it's down to comparing journal bearing production turbos to purpose-built ball bearing units at three times the price.

The HX40 in a Bullseye housing spools around 4200-4400 in 3rd on flat ground depending on setup and how healthy the engine is. I've seen this on more than one application....if it spooled at 5k then nobody would use it. The HX40 is also capable of around 65 lb/min in that particular bolt-on housing....which means it costs less, spools quicker, and makes more total airflow than the old 60-1 DSM Red from ten years ago.

Technology's a bi***, isn't it?

thank you. bout time a healthy post popped up in this thread. half these guys that talk S on the holeset dont make big power they just make big BS. i bet i could unplug 2 spark plug wires and still dyno higher than half the haters.
the dyno paper i posted earlier in this thread you can see where i just homemade copied my max values that i logged on dsm link onto the dyno paper. i passed 60pounds a minute air flow at 29psi and made over 500awhp on pump gas with a budget turbo. but like you said "thats still not enough for the haters"

holeset is not a pos, its a damn workhorse on a budget

 

[Calan]

Because holset turbos are designed for diesel motors. If you can't afford a decent turbo designed for your motor save up your pennies until you can. Making 400whp with a holset that has the lag of a T6 GT42R turbo is a waste of money. You'd be better off and have more fun with a FP Green, Red, or FP3065. One of those turbos would spool quicker and make more power than a shitty hobo (holset) turbo.

Wow.

The HX40 in a Bullseye housing spools around 4200-4400 in 3rd on flat ground depending on setup and how healthy the engine is. I've seen this on more than one application....if it spooled at 5k then nobody would use it. The HX40 is also capable of around 65 lb/min in that particular bolt-on housing....which means it costs less, spools quicker, and makes more total airflow than the old 60-1 DSM Red from ten years ago.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Full spool by 4185rpm, 59 lbs/min @ 31psi, and somewhere around 475whp on a conservative E85 tune... with mild cams (FP2s), a BEP housing, FP manifold, and E3 O2 housing footprint.

Yeah... Holsets suck.

 

[seattleshawn]

Wow.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Full spool by 4185rpm, 59 lbs/min @ 31psi, and somewhere around 475whp on a conservative E85 tune... with mild cams (FP2s), a BEP housing, FP manifold, and E3 O2 housing footprint.

Yeah... Holsets suck.

Elvis has just left the building!!!!

I love my HX 40 in my BEP housing. Best 250 bucks I ever spent

 

[boost97gst]

So 400whp COULD happen on a bep housing with an hx40? Thats not bad at all. I paid alot more(i think) for my turbo. In hindsight i prob would have went with a pro40 and saved some $!!

 

[bastarddsm]

Full spool by 4185rpm, 59 lbs/min @ 31psi, and somewhere around 475whp on a conservative E85 tune... with mild cams (FP2s), a BEP housing, FP manifold, and E3 O2 housing footprint.

Yeah... Holsets suck.

That flow number might be a little optimistic, especially only making 475, you should be closer to 550 with that flow number on a conservative tune, and 590+ set on kill. I'd bet your fuel pressure falls off up top requiring larger idc's thus inflating your airflow number. Still tho, 475 with the bolt on at 29psi is nothing to sneeze at.

So 400whp COULD happen on a bep housing with an hx40? Thats not bad at all. I paid alot more(i think) for my turbo. In hindsight i prob would have went with a pro40 and saved some $!!

400whp should be a walk in the park on a bolt on HX35 with E85, and not much harder on 93, long as you got a decent intercooler.

If you can't get 400whp out of a bolt on HX40 on 93, your doing it wrong.

 

[dfwdsmer]

I found out that my buddy is runny 24 psi and made 293 on the hx-35 with bep housing

 

[paul si]

I'm running the 3586 with bolt on housing and getting around 75lb of air at 42psi of boost, yes the housing is restrictive but it works and its simple. I'm trapping just over 135mph on 94 oct fuel and stroker.
I get 20psi at 3985rpm in 3rd

 

[red_devil]

I found out that my buddy is runny 24 psi and made 293 on the hx-35 with bep housing

Something is wrong. Does he have ecmlink? if so I would like to see a log.

 

[mondale]

FWIW the setup that was on my car before I switched to a BW turbo was a Holset hx40 and it made 460 one year on 32ish psi on a dyno dynamics, and 556 the day it was sold to me on MAP's dynojet at 37psi. This was on a stock block with HKS 272's and other boltons. They can make 450awhp!

 

[tron2119]

I found out that my buddy is runny 24 psi and made 293 on the hx-35 with bep housing

How many blades?

 

[dfwdsmer]

How many blades?

I believe it the 7 blade. I will ask him to get on here and load up his log so you all can see it

 

[My1GLaser]

This is what pure, unbridled ignorance looks like.

That made my night!

7 blade HX-35, 37 psi by 4700, 53-54 lb/min airflow. 1.2 sec 70-90mph times! Don't care what the dyno says when I can hang with sportbikes from a roll and even beat a few

 

[dsmcurse]

ya i just came back from dinner with my ex and my daughter and the FIRST thing i did when i came back home was check this thread to see if that hater had anything else to say. nope, not a word. FUNNY

 

[tron2119]

I believe it the 7 blade. I will ask him to get on here and load up his log so you all can see it

if it is the 7 blade, it would require higher boost to come alive. If your friend wants to run that low of boost, the 8 blade would be better suited for him.

More blades=better with low boost

But still pretty low numbers...