White Smoke / Car Is Smoking White [Merged 7-9]

[Apeximprt2nr]

Alright guys, well I just finished my 14B install in my 95 GSX. All is well besides some minor oil leaks on the return line and the SS feed line at the filter housing. There was also a VERY minor coolant leak from the front banjo bolt on the turbo. I tightened it a tad and I think i went away. Now the turbo is spooling really late because I think there may be a leak before the turbo.
Now on to the problems.

1. The turbo does not smoke at all besides at WOT sometimes it blows out whiteish grey smoke. I'm trying to think of where it could be burning coolant. It never did this before the turbo install.

2. There was some white smoke the past 2 days at the manifold. I'm thinking its the shitload of PB Blaster that I sprayed all over the car but I'm not sure.

3. There's a smell coming from my engine that I can smell if I pop my hood and it becomes more noticeable when I'm driving and really get on it. It smells like burning plastic sort of, with a mix of burning rubber. The lower heat shield is not on the car because it's a pain to get on and I haven't put it back on because I haven't had time. Nothing is touching anything hot so I 'm confused...The only possible thing is maybe I pout on a new 4 ply exhaust mani. gasket as well as antiseize on most of the bolts and the turbo-mani. bolts.

Any help? Thanks.

 

[Boostdriven]

Seriously?

First of all, I build catch cans on the side; not as a career. And second, I stay swamped with work due to the vast majority of people that are intelligent and like to do things the right way.

The first step is to stop posting half-assed suggestions for "fixing" well-documented issues.

I am so very happy for you so you got no comment about the diesel engine and how they run their breathers or that just went right over your head?

The nice thing about our cars is that they are our cars, so you can do whatever you want to yours

 

[Calan]

...so you got no comment about the diesel engine and how they run their breathers

Not unless you can point to a street-legal vehicle that dumps oil and other blow-by contaminants straight onto the highway for other drivers to enjoy. In that case, I'd be very interested.

Otherwise, your diesel comment has nothing at all to do with this discussion.

 

[Boostdriven]

Not unless you can point to a street-legal vehicle that dumps oil and other blow-by contaminants straight onto the highway for other drivers to enjoy. In that case, I'd be very interested.

Otherwise, your diesel comment has nothing at all to do with this discussion.

Then you should go to a big truck dealer and check out any truck out there and you will see that they all have a big hose that comes off either a VC or a front gear case cover and goes straight to the ground. This is pointless, I rest my case. I personally don't care what you do to your car.

 

[dsmcurse]

i work as a deisel mechanic, i have about 5-6 years experience with big rigs. THEY ALL HAVE WHATS CALLED A SNOT TUBE, ITS THE CRANK CASE PRESSURE RELEIF RIGHT OFF THE VALVE COVER AND OR THE TIMING COVER AND EVERY SNOT TUBE ENDS RIGHT BEHIND THE FRONT AXEL ABOUT A FOOT FROM THE GROUND.

CUMMINS N14, M11, ISM, ISX, CAT 3106, 3126, C15, DETROIT DIESEL SERIES 60.... blah blah blah
THEY ALL DUMP THE CRANK CASE PRESSURE AT THE GROUND! even clean air certified nice brand new freightliner centryclass dumps crankcase pressure at the ground

i agree that a nice catch can plumbed into the air filter pipe works good, but dumping at the ground is ok. the air filter pipe being "vacume-ized" does give the valve cover pressure an "assist" if you will on escaping. but catch cans are easy to forget to empty. i had this problem all the time and said f#ck the can.

 

[Calan]

.... but dumping at the ground is ok.

Holy crap.

NO...IT'S NOT.

This isn't a matter of opinion: it is against the rules at every track I know of, it poses a risk to anyone following you (especially at a track), and it guarantee's positive CC pressure. There are other methods that are better for your engine, and for not a lot of money. Even a $5 breather hanging off the VC is better than a dump tube pointed at the ground.

It's one thing to do stupid shlt to your own car; it's something else to recommend doing stupid shlt to other people's cars and telling people something is "ok" when it isn't.

 

[dsmcurse]

i have a tee'd out dipstick tube with a 3/8 hose off of it. it goes to the ground with a breather filter on the end. my VC has two 5/8 hoses with breather filter on the end of each hose. i DID run a catch can befor. it was more trouble than it was worth. of course this is my opinion. the stupic can would always fill up with condinsation watery crap and my air filter pipe would pull this ickyness into my nice turbo... YUCK!

dumpin crankcase pressure at the ground is just fine!!!!!! im sure the one special occasion when i go to a track i MAYBE might have to run a can... IF the tech guy even notices.... ive been on a dyno about 7 or 8 differant times. no dyno guy has ever said shit to me about it.

look at my engine pics. my car is NOT ghetto! its nice and has reliably put down over 500awhp for almost 3years now... guess what? it has been crankcase dump at the ground the whole time!

my car currently sits at 570awhp, have super top secret HX52 in the works right now as we speak and by the end of the month i'll have a 600 dyno sheet to show everyone. crankcase pressure system will remain the same.

i guess to each his own right? what works for me might not work for everyone else...

me and boostdriven both have a system like this. brian macy the pro tuner that just did the EFI 101 seminar i attended told me he does this trick all the time. especially in high performance boats that have quad V8's and each engine pushes 800hp apeice. 4 of 'em at 800HP each! they all have valve cover vents that have a "snot tube" that leads down to the bildge compartment. pull the transum plug and drain the bildge water and a bit of oil comes too. no biggie.

if off shore ocean boats that are help WOT for an hour at a time can do this, or a semi truck hauling 50,000 pounds up a hill can vent like this than whats wrong with my 2.0 four cylinder doin it?????

if everyone here is so concerned about the enviorment, sell your DSM and drive a prius!

here is a "snot-tube" from a Cummins ISX. its clean air certified. hmmm.... go figure....

 

[Calan]

dumpin crankcase pressure at the ground is just fine!!!!!! im sure the one special occasion when i go to a track i MAYBE might have to run a can... IF the tech guy even notices....

So it only matters if you get caught. And you don't give a shlt about the guys following you down the track and having to deal with any oil and other crap that you may have spit out?

Wow. You are a real class act. Be sure to give us all a heads up if you plan to run at the shootout this year.

 

[dsmcurse]

ya ill let you know when im about to pass your ass at the shoot out

dont worry i dont plan on goin....

dude, its not like my valve guide seals or piston rings DUMP mad oil out the hoses. if your gettin OIL out of your valve cover vents you might wanna look further into your engine... sounds like somethin wrong to me?

NO OIL JUST POURS OUT MAN wtf

when engine is warmed up ONLY fumes come out with the absolute tiniest bit of blow by oil which is a VAPOR

explain DOT approved brand new semi trucks drivin down your high way with open snot tubes?
why do badass off shore race boats have snot tubes that go down to the bottom of the bildge compartment?

 

[Calan]

if your gettin OIL out of your valve cover vents you might wanna look further into your engine... sounds like somethin wrong to me?

Ok...now I think you are just trolling. If you are sitting at 570whp, then you should know all about high-boost, loosely toleranced race motors and how much oil they can push out of the CC vents even on a single pass.

I can saturate my can filters and collect about 1/4 of a can full in a couple of passes, and that is at only 32psi boost and around 500whp. And I assure you that there is nothing "wrong" with my 2.3L stroker (other than the wear and tear that I've put on it during 53,000 miles). I guess someone should get on the phone with Shep and several other high HP guys and explain to them that there is obviously something wrong with their motors, since several of them can FILL a can with liquid oil on a single pass.

I'll bow out now and let the mods take over.

 

[dsmcurse]

this is my friend josh's boat. eagle racing hull, three stage berkley/american turbine hybrid pump, has a all-motor bigblock V8 454 that honestly makes 100hp per hole. this boat is competion ready and can rip the white waters of hells canyon with the best of em.

josh's boat has the meanest nicest bildge compartment (engine bay) ever. his engine, has two 3/4" hose's, one off of each valve cover. these crank case vent tubes DO NOT got to a can or into the header's. they run off of the engine and make theyre way down into the bottom of the bildgge compartment near the transum wall about 8-10"a off the bottom and each hose has a big 'ol nice breather filter.

every other boat like this runs the crankcase pressure hoses off the valve cover and into the headers goin over the transum. josh says at idle going through the no wake zone's it stinks and smells. he runs them to the bottom of the engine bay. its just fine there. yes the other boats have a special valve at the exhaust that basically helps like how a air filter pipe connection would for us. he has NO problems at all and is the most well know ass kickin privateer on the river back home where im from.

i spent 5years building boats at Thunderjet USA - Welded aluminum boats manufacturer. Offshore fishing, Jet and Commercial boats as the lead rigger there for a long time ive seen many boats from preduction model family boat to full custom race boat. the stock whimpy hp family style has valve cover vent hose recirc into engine. duh, no surprise there. every high performance high horse set up ive seen vented pressure with NO catch can.

ive always been a mechanic, like as my career, what i get paid to do. have worked automotive, diesel and marine. im not a young punk kid. im closin in on 30 years old. i know your a well respected member and a older guy in his 40's and are very knoweldgable. but im saying, an open vent system can be just fine. yes it can. thats all. im not trying to start a war or piss you off.

first confrontation with you and next thing i know you change my rep status bar to red. very funny by the way. me and some guys at the shop i work at got a good kick out of it. so out of about 11 or so years of working as a mechanic only about 5 of 'em were spent as a marine mechanic. the other years have been spent at shops too, mostly diesel.

i currently work at www.fatboysfleetservice.com i work with older 25+ year experienced master tech mechanics. side by side all day. i learn alot from these older "grey haired" mechanics. these guys are smart as shit. ive been to training classes and have some ASA cert's and this and that but i dont have my ASE master tech badge. one day though. mean while even ten years plus as a mechanic i still openly admit im a beginer on a huge learning curve.

please explain to me why EVERY SINGLE SEMI TRUCK IN THE WORLD has a open vent system? thats what i want you to explain? your the wiseman grasshopper and im the learner bee. im askin you why do big trucks (that are DOT approved and clean air certified) dump crank case pressure directly at the ground? im asking you why? seems like you have avoided that question many times so far...

yes my car reliably clears 500hp everytime i drive it. have a 500+awhp mustang dyno paper from 2011 if you want me to post it. i was just on a dyno less than a month ago. 570. yes my car is four wheel drive. yes i did build it myself. no i dont claim to know everything. i openly admit im a begginer.

its funny my rep status bar changed colors after askin you why its so important to have a catch can. oh well i dont care. thanks for the good laugh. but seriously, please explain why trucks and boats open vent crankcase pressure but a 2.0 4cylinder cant?

i understand about pressure at the valve cover. i do. want me to rig a spare omni map sensor into my old pcv bung thats blocked by a plug? i can put a map sensor there and log it. my car rocks 35ish psi every time i drive it. which is about 80miles a day as i commute 35miles to work everyday plus go home.

in about 1000 miles my oil level will have went down off the perfect mark down to about where it would take a lil tiny bit over a half of a quart to put me back at the perfect mark. i open dump my crankcase pressure at the ground. 1000 miles later my oil mark on the stick has hardly moved. and yes i boost on quite frequent.

i attended the EFI 101 seminar this weekend at KaizenSpeed. i have alex (boostdriven) for a best friend, im roommates with one of the master tech mechanics i work with, i successfully built my own car from top to bottom. cant take credit for some fab work on the manni's or the ecu tune. but my boy boostdriven did that work of art for me and was right there learning every step of the way.

im not a troll and im not a poser man. if you saw my car im sure you would be impressed (then snicker about my lack of catch can) i respect the forums and look at the info nearly every day. so to turn my rep staus bar red over a discussion is about as bad as justin goin off topic then sending you a private message warning about staying on topic....

 

[gofer]

I've never touched a diesel motor but it seems like you, being a diesel mechanic, would know more about their specific CC ventilation systems then what I could pull off the internet.

What's this?
Cummins Filtration: Crankcase Ventilation Manager

Clearing the Fog with Crankcase Ventilation

Ecovent Crankcase Ventilation
The Ecovent Crankcase Ventilation system has been supplied to the marine and stationary engine market for over twenty years. Today it is used on nearly every major make of industrial diesel and natural gas engines.

That's strange.

From skimming through it quick it seems Cummins has spent quite a bit of time engineering something more than just a "snot tube" off of a diesel motor to me.

BD Diesel Crankcase Vent Filters 1032170

Summit sells them for Fords and also claims...

They will effectively increase turbocharger and intercooler efficiency and keep the silicone boots from deteriorating over time and reduce emissions and help your diesel engine operate efficiently with one of these BD Diesel crankcase vent filters.

Here's something else I found very interesting regarding diesel motors crankcase ventilation filtration systems, it's a good read.

Crankcase Ventilation Filtration Systems for Diesel Engines

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[dsmcurse]

I just showed you a picture example of a newer cummins isx engine. Its a 2008 but it does have 480,000 miles. It has a vent tube that comes straight off the engine and goes straight to the ground. Look at a cat c15 its a big dog compound turbo 55+psi boost badass. It has twin crank case pressure releif vent hose's coming straight off the top of the valve cover andgo straight down to the ground. You see this truck everyday haulin heavy loads on the freeway. Its stops at every weigh station and a highway patrolman passes its inspection at everystop. Highway patrol man cop ain't gonna ticket him for "all this mad oil dumped every where" because it doesn't work that way.

As we all know, there's splash baffling under the valve cover that keeps OIL in but let's VAPOR out. I'm not trying to argue the science and hard work that calan has put into his catchcan system. All I'm sayin is its possible to effefctivly rig a open vent crank case pressure releif system. Why fight me on that?

All I hear is "because the track official" how many of you actually go to the track? Huh? Not many? Me neither. My car is a 500+hp all wheel drive freeway fightin daily driver kickin ass gettin 25mpg racecar with liscense plates and blinkers. Its made to kick as and double for my main source of transpertaion. I'm sure 95% on here try to aim for the same goal for their STREET CAR. Were not talkin about the track. I agree, a can in the system to keep em all happy. Everyday everyday? Not for me no thanks. My car is still goin strong so I must have done somethin right?

Many many trucks on the road have open vent systems and they pass emmisions and drive on the highway, many many high performance offshore boats have open vent crank case pressure systems and they are US coast gaurd and NMMA certified. Please explain that?

 

[gofer]

I just showed you a picture example of a newer cummins isx engine. Its a 2008 but it does have 480,000 miles. It has a vent tube that comes straight off the engine and goes straight to the ground. Look at a cat c15 its a big dog compound turbo 55+psi boost badass. It has twin crank case pressure releif vent hose's coming straight off the top of the valve cover andgo straight down to the ground. You see this truck everyday haulin heavy loads on the freeway. Its stops at every weigh station and a highway patrolman passes its inspection at everystop. Highway patrol man cop ain't gonna ticket him for "all this mad oil dumped every where" because it doesn't work that way.

As we all know, there's splash baffling under the valve cover that keeps OIL in but let's VAPOR out. I'm not trying to argue the science and hard work that calan has put into his catchcan system. All I'm sayin is its possible to effefctivly rig a open vent crank case pressure releif system. Why fight me on that?

All I hear is "because the track official" how many of you actually go to the track? Huh? Not many? Me neither. My car is a 500+hp all wheel drive freeway fightin daily driver kickin ass gettin 25mpg racecar with liscense plates and blinkers. Its made to kick as and double for my main source of transpertaion. I'm sure 95% on here try to aim for the same goal for their STREET CAR. Were not talkin about the track. I agree, a can in the system to keep em all happy. Everyday everyday? Not for me no thanks. My car is still goin strong so I must have done somethin right?

Many many trucks on the road have open vent systems and they pass emmisions and drive on the highway, many many high performance offshore boats have open vent crank case pressure systems and they are US coast gaurd and NMMA certified. Please explain that?

I'm not fighting you on anything, neither is Craig, and you're right we're not talking about the track either. We're talking about PROPERLY, notice properly is underlined because I'm stressing the word, setting up crankcase pressure evac systems on a 4g63 (not a diesel, truck, or a marine engine) whether it's up on jackstands, at the track, or getting grocery's with a baby seat in the back.

Sweet, you've got a DSM over 500whp that you DD. As you said, that's 95% of our members, but your hp numbers and what you use your car for have nothing to do with how well your crankcase pressure is controlled.

Your red chicklet was rewarded because of the poor advice you gave and another thing, mentioning street racing or as you called it, freeway fighting? isn't allowed on Tuners so the next time you mention it you'll be receiving a warning as well.

If you have some data to show that the evac system on your 4g63t motor is working effectively then post it. Saying that you do it because diesel rigs and marine boats do is ignorant and, if that's the case you should remove your DSM's throttle body and put a prop on the back of it because that's what diesels and marine boats do too.

 

[Boostdriven]

Two against one, now that's just not fair I got a feeling this is leading to another closed thread

I was not going to say anything anymore but this is starting to bother me a bit. I find it hard to believe that you guys would go to such extent of doing research to prove a couple of not so tree huggin white boys that a catch can is "the next best thing" and "its the way of the future"

I've read through the links that gofer have posted and so what, when are they going to start using those things on trucks cause the 2008 cummins isx I just looked at today didn't have one and neither did 10 other trucks in the shop.

Catch cans are for the track, so if you plan on spending some time at the track then you should have one and if you run a catch can then do it right. Take your VC off and have 2 nice fittings or nipples welded on it. Run 2 fat hoses off of it to your catch can and then run 2 the same size hoses from the catch can to your intake pipe. That stock single 3/8" hose bullshit probably is not going to cut it when you're making over 500 HP. If you don't have anyone to weld the fittings then ditch that stupid PCV valve and use that other port as a breathe as well, at least this way you will have two 3/8" hoses as breathers.

Before I ditched my catch can I used the same 5/8" hoses I have now and they both ran to a catch can but instead of 2 lines going to my intake pipe I had a decent size filter on top of the can to let the pressure out. I didn't like the idea of running so much blow by (exhaust gases) back in to my engine thus taking away from the purity of the air. When I did have to drain my catch can it wasn't oil but some not so clean water that came from condensation in the crank case. Your catch can just don't fill up with oil unless you take the baffle plate off under your VC.

Tristen, give it up man, there is no point in arguing, its not like they are making you put the damn can back on your car

 

[dsmcurse]

This morning I replaced my throttle body with a straight thru elbow and gutted the intake air heater for max performance, and the rear of my car use's a IMPELLER not a prop.

Just thought id clear that up

And to awnser your question, I sold my 1999 honda prelude to fund a move. All I have is a 2008 kawasaki ninja zx6r and 1995 eclipse gsx heavily built and modified. I drive my dsm everyday. It makes very respectable power and it has no issues. It also has no oil catch can...

I find it oh so funny that craig don't awnser back to why a detroit diesel series 60 dumps crankcase pressure at the ground or why competion jet boats dump crankcase pressure into the bildge compartment? Then you stay up for a hour in a half out of your night google searching and reading information that isn't applied in the real world.

From like1950-2010 all truckss dump crankcase pressure directly at the ground. That's 60years of doin it the simple and effective way. VERY BRAND NEW trucks are just now starting to imply these these newer systems. And not every truck is doin it.

Today at work ill ask a master tech to explain this system in lamens terms for you all

 

[Calan]

first confrontation with you and next thing i know you change my rep status bar to red. very funny by the way. me and some guys at the shop i work at got a good kick out of it....

its funny my rep status bar changed colors after askin you why its so important to have a catch can. oh well i dont care. thanks for the good laugh.

Glad you enjoyed it.

From the site rules:

If you post misinformation, you may receive negative reputation points

You seem to think that just because YOUR car behaves a certain way, that all 4g63t's behave that same way. I personally know of several of these cars that will push liquid oil like crazy out of the VC due to the way they are set up and assembled. It's by design.

Besides the fact that your method isn't the best technically (always keeps positive pressure in the CC vs. negative pressure)...

I could care less if your personal CC evac system uses a catch can, garden hose, or condoms. And you can compare your car to boats, semis, the space shuttle, or anything else if you want. But when you repeatedly tell people that it is "just fine" to vent a crankcase straight to the track or street (as long as you don't get caught), when their is a very real risk of putting down oil and causing a dangerous situation for other racers or drivers, you can bet good money you are going to get dinged.

Can you imagine Shep, Kevin Jewer, or any of the other 4g63 "pros" saying something like "Meh... I just vent that crap to the track. Hopefully I won't get caught and the guy following me at 150mph won't drive through it."? Any of those guys (and most of the rest of us) would be embarrassed to be associated with people that think that way.

And yes...I know you are talking about a street car, but it makes no difference. You shouldn't be laying oil down for drivers following you on the street either.

I was not going to say anything anymore but this is starting to bother me a bit. I find it hard to believe that you guys would go to such extent of doing research to prove a couple of not so tree huggin white boys that a catch can is "the next best thing" and "its the way of the future"

It has nothing to do with "tree huggin".

It's about putting forth an old and out-dated idea that has been proven to be inefficient on these motors, as the next best thing since sliced bread. More importantly, it's a matter of common sense and showing some respect for anybody that you share the road or track with.

We all have the right to do anything we want to our cars, no matter how ugly, stupid, inefficient, ghetto, etc.... but there is a fine line between posting about what you do on your own car, and trying to convince everyone else that your setup is the "correct" way to do it when hard data suggests otherwise.

Anyone with common sense that has been around these cars (or spent time at a track in ANY type of car) will agree that simply running a hose to the ground isn't the best idea (as you yourself admitted, at least for the track). Forget about boats, diesels, trains, and whatever else you guys have been talking about; the next time you're at the SO (or anywhere else that hundreds of performance DSMs are gathered), look under the hoods and see how many of them are just dangling a hose off the VC.

Although I completely disagree with you on this, you are entitled to your own opinion like everyone else. The reason you haven't gotten dinged with the rep button is that as far as I know, you haven't blatantly told people that it is ok to run a hose to the ground and dump oil for everyone to enjoy; you just mentioned that it is what you do. That would be that fine line I mentioned.

 

[Calan]

I find it oh so funny that craig don't awnser back to why a detroit diesel series 60 dumps crankcase pressure at the ground or why competion jet boats dump crankcase pressure into the bildge compartment? Then you stay up for a hour in a half out of your night google searching and reading information that isn't applied in the real world.

Ehhh... I didn't google shlt. I could care less about diesels or boats; this is a DSM forum. (Check it out ^; it's right up there in the URL.). And if I had an extra hour and a half, I'd be getting caught up on all the catch cans I have to get done.

I have a better question though. I wonder why Mitsu and all of the auto manufacturers go to the expense and trouble of designing and implementing various ventilation systems when they could just hang a cheap hose off the block?

Don't bother answering that; it's both a stupid and rhetorical question that everyone knows the answer to.

 

[dsmcurse]

shep and magnus and pro race team and blah blah blah all have cement filled block, with no cooiling system, 1400+ hp, 60+ psi boost and run for 7 seconds/1300 feet at a time. yes they are much differant than a 500hp STREET CAR.

and i wasnt refering to you staying up and google searching stuff that isnt in the real worl. i was talkin about someone else. im not telling people that this is the best method bar none. am i? im saying that from what ive seen and from my own personal experience plus others experience that a open vent system can work just FINE.

thats all im saying. its funny, my 2008 freightliner with a cummins isx picture example wasnt enough, theres a 2012 peterbuilt brand new as they come semi truck i just did a PM service on yesterday. i noticed it has a open vent "snot tube", i rushed right to work to take a picture of this open vent system on a BRAND NEW TRUCK, but, the customer already came and got that rig and beat me to it. bummer. next brand new truck that rolls through here ill picture post its open vent system. next time i go home to idaho ill stop by a couple buddys house's and show competion ready jet boats using an open vent crank case system. (if i even remember because this disscussion is so irrelevent to me)

im still waiting to here why trucks do it? theyre on the open road and share the same high way as you, with 1-1.5" blow by tube aimed straight at the ground, these trucks hold 40-50psi boost uphill haulin 50thousand pounds for a 8hour work day, all day everyday. our highways and roads arent oil soaked are they?

well? are the roads oil soaked? no. because it doesnt work that way.

i aggree that a very nice catch can system is more effective. i agree. but i also beleive an open vent system can do the job too. i didnt mass post to every member ditch your catch can and open vent. did i? i said it can be just fine with a adequetly deseigned system. a tiny lil piss tube of a hose off of the pcv barb just dangling a stupid hose above the tranny is dumb. yes.

how about two big 'ol nice 5/8"s bungs welded into the valvecover, nice quality hose off of them to the bottom of the engine bay with breather filters on the end? seems fine to me. my cars not cheap or broken or spewin oil out.

please explain why every truck open dumps crankcase pressure? oh yeah this is dsmtuners and nothing matters but 4g63 huh?

 

[Calan]

Just to be clear...

What I don't agree with is that one 3/8" hose ran in to the intake pipe is better then two 5/8" hoses ran in to the atmosphere.

Agreed.

Any sealed system has to account for the pressure drop across the lines and filters, and the flow capacity should be balanced on both sides of the can. A single 3/8" hose going to the intake will only be adequate if very low resistance filters (or no filters at all) are used, and the low pressure lines coming off the VC can flow enough air.

I would consider a 3/8" ID line on the suction side to be about the smallest line acceptable with an efficient can.

...its possible to effefctivly rig a open vent crank case pressure releif system.

I agree, although a sealed system is usually better for our cars when possible IMO. In some cases, an open setup is the only approach that makes sense. In fact, I've built several open setups for various track cars.

What I disagree with 100% is simply running a hose off of the engine and taking a chance on spewing crap all over the road.

 

[Calan]

my 2008 freightliner with a cummins isx picture example wasnt enough, theres a 2012 peterbuilt brand new as they come semi truck i just did a PM service on yesterday. i noticed it has a open vent "snot tube"

...

im still waiting to here why trucks do it? theyre on the open road and share the same high way as you, with 1-1.5" blow by tube aimed straight at the ground, these trucks hold 40-50psi boost uphill haulin 50thousand pounds for a 8hour work day, all day everyday. our highways and roads arent oil soaked are they?

...

please explain why every truck open dumps crankcase pressure? oh yeah this is dsmtuners and nothing matters but 4g63 huh?

Yes; this is DSMTuners and nothing matters but 4g63t motors, at least for this discussion. I have no idea why trucks do it, I don't care why they do it, and it DOESN'T MATTER why they do it. If they can hang a hose off a diesel engine and not spray oil everywhere, more power to them. That is NOT how a 4g63 motor typically works, which is what we are discussing. The fact is, these motors can and do spray oil out of the VC under varying conditions, with or without a baffle, over a wide range of horsepower and configurations.

If you can hang a hose off your VC and you have zero CC pressure without getting oil everywhere, congratulations. That doesn't change the fact that it is a bad idea for a majority of the people running these motors, and you should in no way be trying to promote it.

 

[BogusSVO]

A bit of history.... Back in the 50 through the mid 60's all gas engines, as far as I am aware, had down draft tubes from the block, pointed to the road, alot like the "snot tubes" you talk about.

Now every one I have pulled apart, has a "brillo" type wad in the engine before the vent tube.
This is used for catching and draining back most the liquid back into the engine.

Then some engineer came up with the simple PCV valve.

I would bet if you pulled the VC off one of your new diesels you would find something about the same shoved in the baffles of the VC. Even 302/5.0 EFI Ford engines have this wad under the PCV valve. Old 283 and 327 SBC have a can filled with this same wad bolted in the lifter valley, under the intake.



Now most larger diesels engines I have dealt with, I will admit, not many, I have seen 3 compression rings then a oil scraper set up.

Big, thick compression rings, easy 3-4mm thick, guess they need those to handle the 50-60psi of boost and controll blow by. Where the 4g63, depending on year, runs a 1.2-1.5mm thick low tension ring.

To me, that adds up to a lot of difference in sealing surface area.

Now for oil soaked roads... they are, ever notice from a light rain on the roads, how they are slick? That is because of the oils dripped on the road and then floating on top of the rain water.

 

[jtmcinder]

Maybe I'm too late to this party, but unfiltered and uncontrolled open crankcase ventilation was outlawed in 2007.

 

[snowborder714]

Either everyone needs to get back on the topic in regards to our motors (no more diesel, boat, RV, unicycle, Power Wheels Jeep, etc. talk). Any more referencing to a motor not ours will have negative rep and/or warnings handed out. None of that other stuff applies to us, so why bring it up?

It's ok to have an opinion, but it's a different thing to have factual data around what should and shouldn't be done in regards to ventilation. If you have an opinion, that's fine. Just don't continue arguing with someone who has data that's telling you it's not the proper way to do something.

 

[Boostdriven]

Damn this is getting serious, 3 wiseman and 2 mods had to get involved honestly I will agree with all of you that a catch can is a better set up for the environment and the next guy behind you at the track but just throwing a catch can on a car with a stock line and the PCV valve in place does not guarantee the best ventilation system. If you're making some power then things need to be upgraded to some larger lines to accommodate the extra blow by you will create from more boost and compression.

We all have worked on a bone stock dsm at one point or another. I remember the first time I pulled my stock intake pipe off and I could see the nasty build up of fine dust particles on the inside of the pipe right after where the breather tube returned in to the pipe. The compressor cover and the wheel on the inside didn't look that clean either. The moisture from the crank case coats the inside of the pipe causing fine dust particles to stick to it and over thousands of miles things can get pretty nasty. The same with the intake manifold. On a stock car with let's say 100k miles if you pull the intake manifold off and look inside, well its not going to be very clean looking. Between your EGR and the PCV valve you can get up to a 1mm of build up on the inside of the manifold in places, that of course will depend on how healthy the engine is and how hard its been driven.

Not running your breathers back in to the intake manifold with a PCV valve or from a catch can to the intake pipe will eliminate that. From and environmental point of view, you need to have it ran like that to eliminate any blow by going in to the atmosphere but that's a small contribution of pollution considering 95% of us dsmers take out the catalytic converter and run big exhaust, and probably 50% of dsmers out there have half ass tuned cars. If you want to do the best you can not to "oil the roads" but don't want the nasty crap from blow by going in to your turbo or the manifold, run nice lines to your catch can and have a good size filter on top of the can. I've ran it like that for a while with success but to each his own.

 

[snowborder714]

Wait, so you're suggesting not running the lines back based on the fact it'll be dirty? Isn't this why we always recommend you purchase a catch can with a decent filter inside? Heck, I still run 2 Husky air filters (small, cheap units) since I don't have a place to put a proper catch can yet and it's crazy how much they actually pick up. It's definitely helped keep my intake manifold and intake pipe/turbo inlet clean if that's all you're concerned about.

Now if you want to talk about crankcase pressure and a proper setup during vacuum/boost (the real reason why we suggest going with a properly routed catch can setup), then I'd refer to Craig's PCV tech article as that pretty much covers it all.