White Smoke / Car Is Smoking White [Merged 7-9]

[Apeximprt2nr]

Alright guys, well I just finished my 14B install in my 95 GSX. All is well besides some minor oil leaks on the return line and the SS feed line at the filter housing. There was also a VERY minor coolant leak from the front banjo bolt on the turbo. I tightened it a tad and I think i went away. Now the turbo is spooling really late because I think there may be a leak before the turbo.
Now on to the problems.

1. The turbo does not smoke at all besides at WOT sometimes it blows out whiteish grey smoke. I'm trying to think of where it could be burning coolant. It never did this before the turbo install.

2. There was some white smoke the past 2 days at the manifold. I'm thinking its the shitload of PB Blaster that I sprayed all over the car but I'm not sure.

3. There's a smell coming from my engine that I can smell if I pop my hood and it becomes more noticeable when I'm driving and really get on it. It smells like burning plastic sort of, with a mix of burning rubber. The lower heat shield is not on the car because it's a pain to get on and I haven't put it back on because I haven't had time. Nothing is touching anything hot so I 'm confused...The only possible thing is maybe I pout on a new 4 ply exhaust mani. gasket as well as antiseize on most of the bolts and the turbo-mani. bolts.

Any help? Thanks.

 

[Calan]

...just throwing a catch can on a car with a stock line and the PCV valve in place does not guarantee the best ventilation system.

Agreed 100%. There is a lot more to it than that if you want to do it correctly, and the ideal line size and can setup will vary from car to car.

Between your EGR and the PCV valve you can get up to a 1mm of build up on the inside of the manifold in places, that of course will depend on how healthy the engine is and how hard its been driven. Not running your breathers back in to the intake manifold with a PCV valve or from a catch can to the intake pipe will eliminate that.

It will definitely make for a cleaner intake, but at the expense of positive CC pressure. The trick is to find (or spend way too many $$$ and hours developing) a filter system that will let you keep the sealed setup, while still maintaining a relatively clean intake.

Heck, I still run 2 Husky air filters (small, cheap units) since I don't have a place to put a proper catch can yet

Oh the shame!

 

[Boostdriven]

Here are few pictures that I googled of what I would consider a bad ass engine set up. This is something that any of you could have looked up on google for yourselves. There are way more pictures like this but I don't need to post all of them on here, few should be good enough as an example. Looking at the engine set up you can probably guess that they make a lot of power but look at that catch can set up they use. Nice catch can with a filter on top and no vacuum assist. I've said this before and I'll say it again. The reason factory runs the lines in to the intake manifold and the intake pipe is for emission reasons and not to help that 210 HP engine run better, in fact that crap will hurt your engine more in the long run but they have to do it to meet emission standards.

One of these days when I catch up with all my other crap I will put a map sensor on my VC and log the pressure in the LINK with several different set ups for the crank case ventilation just to see what works best. I'm almost 100% sure that having 2 big nipples on the VC with nothing on them will produce the lowest pressure results over any catch can set up out there, but that set up might leave a little bit of a mess running bunch the hoses back and forth just adds resistance to the pressure flow even if you run it in to the intake pipe and that's just common sense. Best set up without making a mess would be to run big lines and have them be the shortest route possible, and if you don't mind smelling a little bit of blow by fumes then stick a big filter on top of that can and it will work 100% of the time, unless you forget to drain the can of course

 

[Calan]

Here are few pictures that I googled of what I would consider a bad ass engine set up. This is something that any of you could have looked up on google for yourselves.

Why? Because we've never seen different catch can setups?

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The reason factory runs the lines in to the intake manifold and the intake pipe is for emission reasons and not to help that 210 HP engine run better, in fact that crap will hurt your engine more in the long run but they have to do it to meet emission standards.

Regardless of whatever the factory's original intentions were, the fact is that a proper sealed setup maintains negative pressure in the CC, which = good.

One of these days when I catch up with all my other crap I will put a map sensor on my VC and log the pressure in the LINK with several different set ups for the crank case ventilation just to see what works best. I'm almost 100% sure that having 2 big nipples on the VC with nothing on them will produce the lowest pressure results over any catch can set up out there

Excellent idea! I'm glad someone finally thought of that, since none of us have ever bothered to test it or anything, and we are just tossing out a bunch of guesses about how the system works. Be sure to test hundreds of setups and let us know what you find.

If you bothered reading my article, there is even a section in there....

Screw it. It doesn't matter. I give up.

Someone please close this moronic thread before it goes viral for stupidity.

 

[Boostdriven]

Someone please close this moronic thread before it goes viral for stupidity.

That is your best defense right there close the damn thread so no one can say anything that contradicts what the wiseman says, good idea
That's what most of you guys with power do on this site is close threads or delete posts when someone says something that you don't like. I didn't say anything misinformative on this thread and the pictures I posted are probably from someone who is a member on this site as well. So why don't you find out who those people are and let them know that a guy who buys all the bolt on crap for his car is smarter then a guy who builds everything from scratch including that damn catch can.

Good luck, I'm out!

 

[Calan]

That's what most of your guys with power do on this site is close threads or delete posts when someone says something that you don't like.

I don't have power. What I have is years of actual testing, and a couple thousand dollars invested in developing a CC ventilation system that works. I also have well over 200 cars (street and track on multiple platforms) using what I've developed with excellent results.

What do you have, besides some pictures of nice looking engines that you found on Google?

This isn't a new subject. It's been beaten to death and tested by countless people over the last 20 years. When you pop into a thread with no facts and a few unfounded hunches, and stick your chest out like you are going to teach us all a few things about something we've been dealing with for years...you can expect a little backlash.

We don't close threads because people disagree with us; in fact, a lot of good things can and do come from disagreements within healthy discussions. What you are doing is nowhere near that. When you have a few years of extensive testing under your belt and have a better grasp of what you are talking about, feel free to come back and have an adult discussion on the subject. Until then...yeah...I'm going to continue to recommend that threads like these be closed.

*****

BTW - I wasn't going to mention it, but since you can't seem to just STOP already...

Do you even know what car that is in the middle of your google search pics? (the maroon 1G Talon). Wanna take a guess at who designed and built the catch can that is currently on that car?

 

[Boostdriven]

BTW - I wasn't going to mention it, but since you can't seem to just STOP already...

Do you even know what car that is in the middle of your google search pics? (the maroon '92 Talon). Wanna take a guess at who designed and built the catch can that is currently on that car?

First of all that don't look like a 92, its a 90 or a 91 look at the headlights. Second, I can care less who built that catch can it don't do me any good, all I know is that I don't see any vacuum assist on it that you're talking about but a filter right on top and apparently it works.

I'm done arguing about this.

 

[jtmcinder]

I'm done arguing about this.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_lFbdP8xMU]Yay. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[gofer]

Do you even know what car that is in the middle of your google search pics? (the maroon '92 Talon). Wanna take a guess at who designed and built the catch can that is currently on that car?

Sohn Jhepherd's 1g and the guy who built the can, an old internet legend!

Boostdriven. I'd also like to point out that of the 3 photos you posted it would be impossible for those cars to have a line going to the intake to run a sealed catch can.

 

[Boostdriven]

Sohn Jhepherd's 1g and the guy who built the can, an old internet legend!

Boostdriven. I'd also like to point out that of the 3 photos you posted it would be impossible for those cars to have a line going to the intake to run a sealed catch can.

And some how those power making machines get away without running the vacuum assist to the intake pipe, weird. That is my whole point. I don't get it why you guys keep arguing when you just supported pretty much everything I've been saying

 

[Calan]

I'd also like to point out that of the 3 photos you posted it would be impossible for those cars to have a line going to the intake to run a sealed catch can.

Ding ding ding!

First of all that don't look like a 92, its a 90 or a 91

Doh! Fingers were ahead of the brain. My car is the '92.

 

[Calan]

for you so called "wiseman" im gonna tell you somethin. 4G63 is all you will ever know. period.

Really?

I rebuilt my first Chevy SB 350 in 1981. I'm guessing that was before you were even born.

How is it possible to keep missing the point SO COMPLETELY? Nobody said that a VTA system can't work. In fact, I said I have built several of them, including one on that certain 7-sec DSM mentioned above. Is it the optimum solution though? Usually not, due to simple physics, but in some cases it is the only logical choice.

Once again...

CC pressure will always be positive with an open system. Negative pressure is better, which you can get with a sealed system. If you can maintain negative CC pressure while keeping the intake clean, that is obviously better than an open system.

I can't make it any more clear than that.

This all started with you stating how awesome it is to run a hose off of a 4g63 straight to the road with the risk of dumping oil everywhere, and then going off on all kinds of tangents about trucks, boats, and who knows what else that operate very differently from the motors we are discussing. And now you are trying to convince us that a VTA system can work, which was never disputed in the first place!

I have no doubt that you have automotive knowledge, but you keep doing everything in your power to make us think otherwise.

 

[Boostdriven]

CC pressure will always be positive with an open system. Negative pressure is better, which you can get with a sealed system. If you can maintain negative CC pressure while keeping the intake clean, that is obviously better than an open system.

Very true and I agree with you 100% but you have to remember that not everyone one on this site understands what you do or have done the extensive research on this subject like you did. If they did then this thread wouldn't be over 30 pages long For this system to work, it has to be done property and I'm sure you know how. I bet half the people on here that make over 300 HP leave their PCV valve in place and run it to the intake manifold and then if they use a catch can its probably a simple hollow can that has a nipple in and a nipple out, 3/8" hose to the can and if they don't run it to the intake pipe the can probably has a small filter that fits over a 3/8" top nipple. With this set up you might as well have not wasted your money on the catch can and left it stock, there would have been less hose to run. I'm not picking on anyone, we all have our limitations whether its budget, knowledge or lack of tools. So not everyone can just build or afford to buy a 250 dollar custom catch can and then install it in 100% correctly. Years ago when I first got my dsm I had my catch can hooked up just like that so I've been there

I agree that a catch can could be built and ran in such way that it will filter out most of the moisture out of the crank case gases while maintaining a negative pressure inside the crank case. What the catch can can't filter out is the fact that crank case gases are for the most part exhaust gases (carbon monoxide) so when you start adding that to your fresh air stream going in to the engine it takes away from the oxygen content in the system which could cause some power lose. Now I don't know what the actual quantity of exhaust gas (blow by) is going in to the engine or how much power it will lose but I'm sure it will be something. I like the idea of negative crank case pressure but I don't like the idea of an EGR

I believe vibrant makes a kit that they call e-vac scavenger that runs your crank case breathers in to the exhaust, not sure if its ran with a catch can or not, I suppose it could be ran both ways. It's a fitting that goes in at an angle in your down pipe, they claim it pulls up to 3" lbs of vacuum. I'm sure it works well but I think it also has its limitations. My full 3" exhaust was robbing some good power from my engine past 7500 rpms. Installing a 60mm wastegate as a cut-out about 16" from the turbo in my down pipe got me another 65+ HP at the same boost level. Car made power to 8000 rpms instead of 7500. Had I used that e-vac scavenger system with out my cut out I would probably be pushing exhaust back in to the crank case

I was actually entertaining an idea of using that e-vac scavenger system but instead of running it in to my down pipe I was thinking if running it in to the wastegate tube about an 1-2 inches or so from the end of it. I would use a sealed can system and have my 5/8" hoses run to the can and then from the can to a couple of those nipples at the end if the wastegate tube. You get most of the blow by in boost at higher rpms so when the wastegate would open the fast moving exhaust gases would create venturi effect and help evacuate the crank case gases. Basically creating the same effect as running it in to the intake pipe without adding any exhaust gases in to the engine. If the catch can ever over fills no nasty water will ever enter the engine but will be dumped on the ground through the wastegate tube. That's just an idea I was kicking around with few of my friends, haven't had time to put it to the test yet.

I have a question for you Calan. I'm assuming that you have done some different testing with your catch cans, how much negative pressure do you normally get with a properly installed sealed can system? I'm not being a smart ass I really want to know, it might save me some time with doing my own testing.

 

[WeaselHack]

And some how those power making machines get away without running the vacuum assist to the intake pipe, weird. That is my whole point. I don't get it why you guys keep arguing when you just supported pretty much everything I've been saying

Making power as in short bursts of time staging and going down the track. None of those DSMs appear to be street driven where the assisted exchange of CC gases minimizes oil contamination and condensation. Not to mention your turbo's oil return line will drain with higher efficiently in a vacuum assisted crank case setup.

Perhaps its the Hanford radiation leaks but you seem to be getting confused by pictures of full race setups where oil changes and engine tear-downs are a regular occurrence. In such case, yes, the calculated risks of oil contamination suggests a catch can vented to atmosphere is acceptable.

The bottom line is that several people on this forum have real world MAP sensor data of CC pressure using various catch can setups (99gst_racer comes to mind here) ultimately to determine that a vacuum assisted catch can does indeed lower CC pressure and promotes the exchange of CC gases and all the wonderful benefits that come along with it...The Vibrant scavenger (essentially a Venturi (Bernoulli's Principle)) you mentioned is one off the shelf way of accomplishing this via your choice of intake plenum or exhaust pipe.

Albeit a passively assisted catch can may only pull 1 to 3 inHg of CC vacuum, I can guarantee you that your street driven engine and turbo will thank you in the long run.

 

[Boostdriven]

Making power as in short bursts of time staging and going down the track. None of those DSMs appear to be street driven where the assisted exchange of CC gases minimizes oil contamination and condensation. Not to mention your turbo's oil return line will drain with higher efficiently in a vacuum assisted crank case setup.

Perhaps its the Hanford radiation leaks but you seem to be getting confused by pictures of full race setups where oil changes and engine tear-downs are a regular occurrence. In such case, yes, the calculated risks of oil contamination suggests a catch can vented to atmosphere is acceptable.

The bottom line is that several people on this forum have real world MAP sensor data of CC pressure using various catch can setups (99gst_racer comes to mind here) ultimately to determine that a vacuum assisted catch can does indeed lower CC pressure and promotes the exchange of CC gases and all the wonderful benefits that come along with it...The Vibrant scavenger (essentially a Venturi (Bernoulli's Principle)) you mentioned is one off the shelf way of accomplishing this via your choice of intake plenum or exhaust pipe.

Albeit a passively assisted catch can may only pull 1 to 3 inHg of CC vacuum, I can guarantee you that your street driven engine and turbo will thank you in the long run.

Oh no, not another guy with bunch of bolt ons did you just find this thread, why don't you tell me something I don't know.

Perhaps it is Handford radiation, but the wind here almost always blows from the south so I'm sure you get wiff of it too

Instead of talking shit you should come down here on Friday the 26th where the radiation is a little bit more potent and get your car dynoed. It's and awd dyno at a local college here, $50 dollars for 3-5 pulls. My friend and I are going to be there, mustang dyno rep supposed to be there to help set up the dyno. I'm going to talk to the college instructor and see if we can bring more people in, it would be nice to have more then two awd cars there.

 

[snowborder714]

I have a question for you Calan. I'm assuming that you have done some different testing with your catch cans, how much negative pressure do you normally get with a properly installed sealed can system? I'm not being a smart ass I really want to know, it might save me some time with doing my own testing.

From his PCV tech article.

Note: At full vacuum, I see about –1.1 in/hg, and at 20 psi of boost the most I’ve seen is 0.6 psi of positive pressure. (This is on a 2.3l stroker with 8.8:1 CR). Although this isn't a problem...I'll probably change to a -8AN line, (or possibly run an aditional line) just for peace of mind, and to keep the CC in vacuum while running more boost on this higher compression motor.

 

[dsmcurse]

weasel hack from spok-ompton, i give you an open inventation to come spank the rollers at CBC in pasco. we just got a brand spankin new all wheel drive mustang dyno at the college here. the instructor monty has been very impressed with alex and I. he says are small displacement four bangers definatley won over his respect. alex and i hit the rollers there about a month ago and got an open inventation to come back. between me and alex we'll pay for your dyno pulls. it'll cost alex and i 25 bucks apeice for you to come down here and show us how its done.

free dyno pulls on a brand new machine man, how can you pass it up? drive 2hours over here and please show us how its done.

i can garentee you that you will see alex and i both clear 600awhp with a vent to atmosphere crank case system.

 

[WeaselHack]

Oh no, not another guy with bunch of bolt ons

Try again...

did you just find this thread, why don't you tell me something I don't know.

Nope...been following this thread for some time now...Its been entertaining to say the least I just though I'd chime in with a nickel's worth of free advice from someone with direct experience relating to the topic at hand.

Instead of talking shit...

I wasn't talking shit, nor calling you out on anything. I simply made statements pertinent to the discussion and offered my direct experience. Nobody said you can't make big numbers venting your crankcase to atmosphere.

Regarding your invitation to come down and hit the dyno...I'd love to but my winter upgrades aren't complete as of yet. Frankly I rather take the 6 hour drive to Portland and hang with Lucas and use his Dyno...Besides, the "Tri-Shities" just isn't my style

 

[dsmcurse]

i really gotta watch what i say in the forums nowa days so... i'll keep my opinions or your spokane city to myself...

if someone offered to buy my power pulls at a dyno that was 4 hours closer than what i was used to goin to you bet your ass id take up that offer.

no sense in goin off topic, but how do you pass up free dyno time? who knows? maybe you'd leave with a much better tune afterwards...?

i just wanna see your store bought ingredients for your receipe make some power thats all

 

[WES_393]

Why do you guys keep mentioning horsepower as if that determines proper crankcase ventilation? A worn out stock engine can easily produce the same amount of crankcase pressure as a brand new race-ready engine producing 3-4x the power.

The point of having proper ventilation is to prolong the life of the oil, keep the gaskets/seals healthy, and in some ways improve oil flow. Pushing out gaskets and launching the dipstick isn't going to stop the engine from producing power. So saying you're right because your engine makes more power is like saying you're a healthier person because you can lift more weight.

And for the 12-13th time on this page alone: NOBODY SAID VENTED SYSTEMS DON'T WORK. We're saying that vacuum assisted systems work better and that dumping oil onto the pavement is not only environmentally harmful, it's illegal and against track rules. What's so hard to understand?

 

[dsmcurse]

Sohn Jhepherd's 1g and the guy who built the can, an old internet legend!

Boostdriven. I'd also like to point out that of the 3 photos you posted it would be impossible for those cars to have a line going to the intake to run a sealed catch can.

explain to us why the 2 cars pictured cant run the vacuum assist set up? the air filter pipe is right there. im not trying to be a smartass, honestly, help me understand why. please? i see 2 of these cars, they have a catch-can right there and a airfilter pipe right there. they could have a airfilter pipe hook up to the catch can but they dont. honestly, please explain why? maybe some of us are missing somethin here...?

 

[Boostdriven]

explain to us why the 2 cars pictured cant run the vacuum assist set up? the air filter pipe is right there. im not trying to be a smartass, honestly, help me understand why. please? i see 2 of these cars, they have a catch-can right there and a airfilter pipe right there. they could have a airfilter pipe hook up to the catch can but they dont. honestly, please explain why? maybe some of us are missing somethin here...?

I'll tell you why they didn't run the lines to the intake pipe, because when you're trying to squeeze out every last hp out of your race engine then the last thing you want to do is pollute the fresh air going in to the engine with the blow by (exhaust gases). Crank case pressure does not take power away from and engine. On a 4cyl engine as 2 pistons are going down the other 2 are going up so the air movement just transfers from one side to the other. You can have 100psi of crank case pressure and it will not rob any power, you will push oil out of all the seals on your engine but that’s about it.

Yes by helping to extract the crank case pressure from the engine helps the oil life but if you spent $5000 dollars building an engine you might want to change the oil in it a little bit more often than your daily driver. And if you’re that concerned about your oil then you can buy and electric vacuum pump that will probably work better than running hoses in to the intake pipe. If you’re getting a lot of vacuum inside your intake pipe before the turbo then you might want to look in to getting a better air filter. You want to keep the pressure inside the intake pipe as close to atmospheric pressure as you can, anything less than that takes away from your turbo’s ability to make peak boost, that’s why all serious race cars out there don’t even use an air filter at the track.

 

[gofer]

explain to us why the 2 cars pictured cant run the vacuum assist set up? the air filter pipe is right there. im not trying to be a smartass, honestly, help me understand why. please? i see 2 of these cars, they have a catch-can right there and a airfilter pipe right there. they could have a airfilter pipe hook up to the catch can but they dont. honestly, please explain why? maybe some of us are missing somethin here...?

You see an intake in either of these pictures?

 

[thesnail]

My 90 gsx had white smoke coming out of the tail pipe so i ripped the motor apart and found a broken piston and some broken piston rings, I replaced all 4 pistons and got a new head for it. I also found the turbo to be blown and I just replaced the old 20g with a new 20g and new exhaust manifold. So with new pistons, rings, head and new turbo she still smokes white smoke out of the tail pipe and also out of the breather on the valve cover, I am thinking there is most likely still a healthy coat of oil in the exhaust that could be burning off, I had the intercooler hot tanked and cleaned to get rid of any oil that could be in there. But she still smokes, she actually runs pretty good minus some tuning issues im having, but seems to run okay just very very smokey. What do you guys think?

 

[luv2rallye]

White smoke is burning coolant - usually headgasket.

 

[93AWDDSM]

I replaced all 4 pistons and got a new head for it. So with new pistons, rings, head and new turbo she still smokes white smoke out of the tail pipe and also out of the breather on the valve cover

did you replace the head gasket?