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2G Valve Spring & Retainers

Posted by xv_dsm, Sep 30, 2019

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  1. xv_dsm

    xv_dsm Probationary Member

    11
    3
    Joined Sep 3, 2019
    North Charleston, South Carolina
    I am currently rebuilding my 4G63T and I am to the point where I've decided to replace my valve springs & retainers. I just wanted to get a preference on what kind I should get and what kind are you running in your builds. And if anybody can, can you input the specs as well. When I replace them do/should I replace the rocker arms as well because they seem fine and the valves I plan on having rebuilt. If I should then what are some recommended rocker arms.
     

    Street Build 139  2

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  2. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,246
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    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    I run SuperTech single streets, BC 0100's and Kiggly Beehives.
    Here are their specs....
    supertech spring chart.png BC Spring chart.png Kiggly Beehive Spring chart.png Kiggly street springs.png
     

    Street Build 3K  27

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    258  13

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    364  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 518  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
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  3. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    750
    132
    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    The Kiggly street springs are probably more than enough spring for you. The BC springs are probably a good "stock replacement" set. They are a bit better than the stock springs, plus they dont have a ton of miles on them. Depending on your budget and your goals, the spring recommendations may change. You can see the specs for both in the screenshots Marty posted. You need to be clear about your goals for the car, so we can refer to them when making suggestions like this. Otherwise you might be spending extra money on overkill parts.

    The rocker arms should be closely inspected for wear and damage and replaced if they are suspect. If you dont know what you a looking for take high resolution photos of each and post them for others to judge. I am sure someone on here would be able to help.

    Best of luck!
     

    Street Build 7K  8

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  4. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Independence, Kansas
    Thanks @rabenne, for addressing the rocker arms, I completely blew that off. I agree, clean the rockers with a good cleaner and then roll the rollers in your fingers to see if they are smooth or rough, that is how I inspect, besides visual. If the rocker feels "rough", clean it some more and roll it in your fingers again. Sometimes a "bad" rocker will feel 100% better once cleaned up properly.
     

    Street Build 3K  27

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    258  13

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    364  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 518  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
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  5. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    To follow up, with the rockers, I pack them with assembly lube like you would pack a wheel bearing, before reinstalling, after you are satisfied with the cleaning.
     

    Street Build 3K  27

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    258  13

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    364  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 518  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
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  6. ThunderChild

    ThunderChild Supporting VIP

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    Rathdrum, Idaho
    Also don't forget to clean out the oil spray hole in the rocker arm, where the lifter socket is. It gets gunk in there that hardens and can block flow.

    I'd recommend Kiggly stuff, one and done.
     

    Street Build 210  3

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM

    291  8

    1987 Toyota Pickup/Hilux
    awd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 841  7

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 1K  1

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM

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    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  7. xv_dsm

    xv_dsm Probationary Member

    11
    3
    Joined Sep 3, 2019
    North Charleston, South Carolina
    The build for my car I want to follow is a street car eventually into a autocross car. Right now I want to put some upgrades to the car but not major ones like new pistons and better camshaft but something to give my car a little more power since I have the engine out. Price is not to big of an issue and I’ll pay for good valves springs, but if it isn’t necessary than like you said I don’t wanna spend money on overkill. So I’ll probably go with the BC springs, I’ll clean and inspect the rocker arms and as well as post pictures of them on this forum because it’s better to have multiple views than just 1.
     

    Street Build 139  2

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  8. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,246
    1,771
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas

    Street Build 3K  27

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    258  13

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    364  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 518  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    xv_dsm likes this.
  9. xv_dsm

    xv_dsm Probationary Member

    11
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    Joined Sep 3, 2019
    North Charleston, South Carolina
    Since I'm going with BC Springs I have 2 options; springs with steel or titanium retainer. Should I just get the steel retainer because I’m planning on switching them later on?

    @1990TSIAWDTALON I have a stock turbo on my 1995 4g63t and I believe it is a t25 correct me if I'm wrong please LOL. and ok I wanted to stay away from fuel injectors because I don't have much knowledge on them and I didn't want to get something and mess up air to fuel ratio or fuel output or anything like that. But if it is easy can you explain if I need to do anything to make sure that if I do buy 560cc fuel injector everything is correct.
     

    Street Build 139  2

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  10. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Independence, Kansas
    It is a "makeshift" upgrade and it is usually done on a 1g. I am sorry I didn't notice that you had a 2g.
    For your needs, a 16g turbo, a small upgrade in injectors and the car will pickup. You still need a way to tune though. A Super Air Fuel Controller (SAFC) would do it but it is a simple device that tricks the ECU so that the car will make up for the additional air by adding fuel. A lot of us run ECMLink for our ECU's but that is a 500.00 upgrade. Not to knock it, it is the 1st MOD I did to the 1990 GSX I just bought last week and I can now do whatever I want to, turbo and fuel wise. Without a way to control the fuel, you would be rich all the time, not a good thing nor is being lean all the time.
    Do you have any gauges to monitor air fuel ratios (a wideband O2 sensor)???
     

    Street Build 3K  27

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    258  13

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    364  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 518  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
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  11. xv_dsm

    xv_dsm Probationary Member

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    North Charleston, South Carolina
    No I do not have one, yet at least I was already planning on buying one but I just wanted to get my engine fixed before buying anything else like that but I might as well buy it now then. What else would I need?
     

    Street Build 139  2

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  12. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Independence, Kansas
    Get the engine solid first. Watch the classifieds for a SAFC or LINK or something to control air/fuels with.
     

    Street Build 3K  27

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    258  13

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    364  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 518  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    xv_dsm likes this.
  13. rabenne

    rabenne Proven Member

    750
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    Joined Apr 21, 2006
    Racine, Wisconsin
    I am in agreement with Marty, but only partially... I personally wouldn't mess with another SAFC. I had one about a decade ago and NEVER got the car running that well. Buying DSMlink V2 (at that time) was a huge upgrade. I know its a lot of money, but it is an invaluable diagnostic tool and tuning tool.

    I have used my ECMlink for diagnosing more issues than I can count... Even if you get the setup running well with SAFC, as soon as you have issues you will be scratching your head with nothing in the way of data about whats happening inside the ECU.

    That said, lots of people have had success with SAFC, and I recommend you seek out more opinions before making any final decisions.

    Best of luck!
     

    Street Build 7K  8

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  14. curt-s

    curt-s Proven Member

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    Winterville, MB, Canada
    The Ti retainers shed a bunch of weight which is good if youre looking for high rpm. Otherwise youre not really gaining anything.

    That being said, my retainers were so damn old I went Ti anyway even though I rarely go above 6500rpm.

    I would say BC are not a stock replacement but cannot be directly compared to beehive and are by no means in the same realm as doubles.
    So, i suppose that kind of makes them closest to stock given other options LOL

    BC is big in the toyota realm too.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 1G DSM
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  15. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    Independence, Kansas
    I make my spring choices on seat pressures and coil binds for each different motor and their intended use.
    I have a car (no title) that has a MAF translator on it and a GM maf. I didn't know siht about it but finally got that car to run so good that it was overrunning the clutch in it. Just took time to figure it all out. We HAD a 1990 with a SAFC on it. After we sold it the kid put it on E85 and that thing was amazing with just that stupid little fooler on it. It is not ideal, but that guy got it to work good for him. Of course I have Link in all of my DSM's and think it is wise to be one of the first Mods to do, it's just not cheap.:thumb:
     

    Street Build 3K  27

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    258  13

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    364  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 518  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
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    xv_dsm likes this.
  16. xv_dsm

    xv_dsm Probationary Member

    11
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    Joined Sep 3, 2019
    North Charleston, South Carolina
    Thanks @curt-s I'll just run the steel ones then. I'll think on what I will get for tuning later on. I was also looking at my valves and they seem to be in good condition I'll be doing another look through tomorrow and I'll post pictures. But I do want to clean them up and remove the carbon build up on them. I saw that some people use fine sanding grit to remove the carbon and then some even went to the extent of polishing them. Is that safe to do without destroying the size of the valve or should I just get new ones as well?
     

    Street Build 139  2

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  17. xv_dsm

    xv_dsm Probationary Member

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    Joined Sep 3, 2019
    North Charleston, South Carolina
    Also those people who have cleaned their valves had 2 different way. Lapping or polishing and I was wondering which is better of the 2?
     

    Street Build 139  2

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  18. Dreams Realized

    Dreams Realized Proven Member

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    Joined Jul 23, 2018
    Seattle, Washington
    I am rocking the BC springs with titanium retainers, I definitely noticed a difference when accelerating high in the RPM band. Especially since the stock turbo loses steam so quickly :p. I also upgraded the lifters and replaced the valve seals while I was in there. Kinda wish I replaced the cams with HKS 272's, those may limit my HP goals later we will see.

    I had my rockers cleaned but I didn't bother replacing them, are you having a machine shop do this work or are you doing it yourself? I may have missed that, reading isn't my strong suit.

    Also does anyone know if the BC springs can handle high boost applications (30-40psi)? The Kiggly springs give specific specs where as the BC springs do not, I am wondering if I may have to switch springs later.
     

    Street Build 611  5

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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  19. donniekak

    donniekak DSM Wiseman

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    Surprise, Arizona
    With a low back pressure setup bc springs and stock retainers were good for 9500 rpms and low 40’s for boost in my car. If the boost was over 30psi in a higher back pressure setup, .63 3076 turbo it would start to float exhaust valves.

    I got a deal on some ferrea duals or I would have gotten the kiggly street springs/retainers. Now it’ll hit 10k and 45 psi with no valve control issues.
     

    Street Build 3K  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  20. xv_dsm

    xv_dsm Probationary Member

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    Joined Sep 3, 2019
    North Charleston, South Carolina
    @Dreams Realized I plan on doing them my self just to save a little bit of money, my only thing is that I can't find any good information with detals to do it.
     

    Street Build 139  2

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
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  21. 1RedTalon

    1RedTalon Probationary Member

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    0
    Joined Sep 21, 2019
    Aloha, Oregon
    I had a SAFC in a GVR4 but I never really messed with it, mine came with the car when a bought it. I personally like the ECMLINK better, there’s a lot of support and information in their website.
     
  22. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

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    My suggestion was for the budget minded as far as a tuning solution. I love my Link and have it for all 3 of my DSM's. I wasn't sure the OP was ready for a $600 upgrade yet :)
     

    Street Build 3K  27

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    258  13

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    364  17

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 518  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  23. 1RedTalon

    1RedTalon Probationary Member

    2
    0
    Joined Sep 21, 2019
    Aloha, Oregon
    Yeah, I agree. When you start upgrading things, our hobby gets expensive, and you always want more. Sticking to a budget based on realistic goals will let you finish what you start.
     
  24. jed344

    jed344 Proven Member

    555
    22
    Joined Jan 10, 2008
    Waterville, Iowa
    Kiggly street springs are all 99% of people will ever need. I have kiggly race springs cannot recall what we have them shimmed to off top of my head. But they kept valve terrain in check with a 67mm holset in .70 housing at 47psi. Never logged back pressure but im sure it was high. Car is on a more mild turbo set up now and I have honestly thought of switching it to the street springs as to not stress parts as hard.
     

    792  26

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
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