Twin disk or Single

[SOADweskey]

My only experience is with the PTT one which has pretty thin sintered metallic disks 0.200". That is how they get away with not grinding the clutch fork. I would guess more milage would be possible with the QM or another clutch with thicker disks. Also my driving style did involve a bit of slipping as required by bumper to bumper traffic.

Maybe Tim Zimmer has good input on QM life.

 

[turboglenn]

Hmmm.. some people (like tim) report great highway/traffic life out of them and some people (including the ones i know) can't get them to live at all outside of a few dyno runs and some track passes.

I think i'm going to take Tim's other advice and get the kit off his site.. the one that said to hold 500tq and only has 220lb PP would be great for me. with my dissability/injuries the cruise i went on last night has me stuck in the house today in pain from pushing the ACT 2600 in traffic all night. I loved the feel of my ACT 2100 when i had it but evenbrand new once i hit third gear, even if it wasn't hot from a launch it would slip badly.

I tell ya, this whole injury/dissability thing has had me giving a lot of thought to an auto but untill the tecnhology exists or is applied to allow them smooth manual downshifts for engine braking as well as at least ONE more gear on the 2g setup (i wold like 4 gears + a locking converter) I just don't think i'd be satisfied except when traveling in a straight line at WOT

I think ultimately a dog-bog from ppg/shep would be my best bet. They can be driven on the street with proper technique and since i've built more motorcycle trannies than i care to remember which also use sliding dog engagement im' sure if it started to slip i could do it just like i do motorcycle ones and re-cut the dogs and even undercut them if need be. of course unless i start drawing a dissability check that part is probably out of reach for a good while.

i'mhoping to get a check to go back to school so i can get back into the work force full time and not just forcing myself to suffer through pain to make a few bucks on a non-regular schedule and then i can finish what i want to do with this as well as get me a small v6 pickup to haul my bike in or tow the car (gotta keep dreams going and hopes up in my condition ya know)

I would love to see a ferrari style paddle shift on a DSM where there's no clutch but if you don't down shift (on some anyway) you'll be stuck bogging in the upper gears you left it in, as well as being able to aggressively downshift for corners and stops

But to be honest, i'm pretty happy when i have a tandard 5 speed in good shape that shifts well, it's just the clutch to hold the power being so hard to push (or being a twin that may or may not last and costs a good bit of coin) that makes this such a hard decision tomake on my end

I'll have to give Tim a call and chat with him before the buy but i think i'm going with the 2200lb with ceramic/feramic disk. After all he's done it all almost and if he swears by a full face clutch that's not of the average run of the mill "hot item" name then i think i could put my faith into trusting him to give it a shot (unless he says buy OEM and pray, then i'm going to fotune cookies for advice )

 

[twicks69]

In this scenario, if I did do a twin disk, I would run it with a street friction material along with the heavier street flywheel I offer and get a custom clutch cover with a softer spring rate than normal. With the addition of the gear-drive hubs on the clutch disks and a conical TOB and the Competition Clutch forged steel clutch fork, you would have a really damn good street twin disk. For our applications, we normally run the highest spring rate diaphragm on the QM and Competition Clutch twin disk assemblies (marked with white line on pressure plate diaphragm by QM). This setup would have a stock clutch pedal feel with around 600TQ @ the wheels as a limit if we didn't use the white spring (it can handle around 200 TQ more on the gear-drive setup. If it is a street car, the softer diaphragm would also make it a bit gentler on your transimssion with softer clamping and still crisp engagement. The street flywheel is around 4 pounds heavier than the race flywheel I offer; the race flywheel is from Quarter Master while the street flywheel is currently the Competition Clutch twin flywheel.

I stock 6b AWD and 7b AWD race flywheels, and 6b AWD/FWD and 7b AWD/FWD street flywheels. The race flywheels are around 6# while the street flywheels are approximately 10.5# for the AWD, and around 11.5# for the FWD flywheels.

As for the friction materials, I offer a street cerametallic friction material (8 pads) and a race bronze ferrometallic friction material (6 pads). The street cerametallic friction material is supposed to have a longer service life for street use.

Regarding issues with people running the street friction material disks (or even the Kevlar friction materials on my SBC custom clutches) and having clutch slippage, it is normally from a lack of break-in mileage, or from the friction material not bedding into the floater plate, pressure plate and flywheel friction surface. The way to resolve this problem while increasing break-in of the friction material is by increasing the surface porosity of the friction plates that the clutch disk frictions bed into. I currently do this by media blasting the friction plates. This has proven effective in increasing break-in of the ceramic (cerametallic) and Kevlar friction materials used in several of the clutch options I offer.

So, either the Quarter Master 7.25" V-Drive Twin disk with Gear-Drive clutch disk hubs on a street friction cerametallic clutch disk, custom spring rate clutch cover diaphragm spring, media blasted friction plates and flywheel friction surface on a street flywheel with the conical TOB, Competition Clutch forged steel clutch fork, clutch fork pivot ball, flywheel bolts and TOB clip would be a complete setup.

If you wanted a similar feeling single-disk clutch that can handle around 500-550TQ, while keeping a gentle clutch pedal and total streetability, then I would look at a South Bend Clutch SS-Series pressure plate (2200#) with a custom TZ/B Kevlar / Ceramic dual friction sprung-hub full-face clutch disk Kit with a Mitsu TOB. I would media blast the pressure plate friction surface and keep the flywheel friction surface a standard machined surface with a 0.610"-0.612" step height on preferably a stock flywheel.

Pricing differences between these two options is substantial, the totally custom twin would be around $1600 with all the options I stated, while the custom single (with you supplying the flywheel) would be around $520. Expect another $275 or so for an ACT Streetlite flywheel if you wanted a lighter solution than the stock flywheel.

The Quarter Master has way more potential and is able to be modified with different friction materials, upgraded to a stronger pressure plate diaphragm spring, and swapped out from a street to a race flywheel. On top of that, the QM is rebuildable.

If you wanted a cheaper twin disk clutch assembly that is around $1200, the Competition Clutch 7.25" twin disk utilizes standard hub clutch disk hubs with bronze ferrometallic race friction disks, a stiffer clutch cover (has the pedal feel of an ACT 2600) with a street weight flywheel (10.5#-11.5# depending on AWD/FWD application). This twin is very streetable with a bit of squeekiness and is very similar in feel to an ACT 2600 w/ 6-puck disk.

As for clutch disk life, the QM should last 10K-40K miles depending on friction material, driver habits, and power levels. I have had my race friction disks in my car for 3 years and around 15K on the current set while the previous set of standard hub QM race disks lasted 32K miles in my car when it was a daily-driver on the GT4088R 2.3L Eagle/Ross setup.

Personally, I have had excellent results with all three clutches listed, and it comes down to customer budget, streetability and power goals.

If you want a more accurate quote simply PM me as it varies based upon the fact that nearly 75% of my sales are custom clutches per customer application.

 

[twicks69]

I would also like to know this... only difference is I'm looking to make roughly 700-800whp as a DD, well not a full DD but something that will be driven everyone once in a while on the street for "fun" and get some decent track time in. Any recommendations? I plan on running a built 2.3L 7-bolt and either a GT3586R or 4088R...

I ran this setup for 3 years (2.3L & GT40R) -- i had the best luck with the Quarter Master 7.25" V-Drive twin disk clutch assembly with Gear-Drive race friction clutch disks and I would recommend it be used with the heavier street flywheel option, a conical TOB, Competition Clutch forged steel clutch fork, pivot ball, TOB clip, and flywheel bolts.

This setup simply makes too much torque above 35psi to be usable with a single disk clutch, and this setup is FUN above 35psi Especially since you are looking for 700AWHP, you are going to need the twin disk for this setup as the torque will be very strong from 4700rpm-8500rpm range on a 0.95A/R divided T4 GT4088R.

 

[GSXeclipsePSI]

I like the way the 2600 with the sprung 6puck feels. I am use to a street disc already tho.

 

[99gst_racer]

I like the way the 2600 with the sprung 6puck feels.

Me too, until you put 500+ ft/lbs torque to it. Then it feels like mush.

 

[spoolin ddub]

I ran a ACT 2600 and the pressure wore out my pedal assembly. Ran a PTT and that badly engineered garbage blew up on a 2nd gear pull. I called them about the trash design and he said no one knows how to properly build a trans and if it fails its the trans builders fault . If anyone has the loot I recommend going with a Quarter Master Gear-Drive 7.25" V-Drive twin-disk. I just had the trans taken off just to get the diff welded and after 1 1/2yrs of highway fun, stop and go driving, & track time the clutch is perfect. Tim you the man!

 

[GSXeclipsePSI]

I'm at 325ft lbs right now and my Max will be near 500. So it don't work well then?

 

[spoolin ddub]

I'm at 325ft lbs right now and my Max will be near 500. So it don't work well then?

There is a huge difference between 325ft/lbs and 500ft/lbs. Especially from numbers off a mustang dyno .

I like the way the 2600 with the sprung 6puck feels. I am use to a street disc already tho.

It's like the response 99gst_racer put to your post.

Me too, until you put 500+ ft/lbs torque to it. Then it feels like mush.

 

[keltalon]

I ran a ACT 2600 and the pressure wore out my pedal assembly. Ran a PTT and that badly engineered garbage blew up on a 2nd gear pull. I called them about the trash design and he said no one knows how to properly build a trans and if it fails its the trans builders fault . If anyone has the loot I recommend going with a Quarter Master Gear-Drive 7.25" V-Drive twin-disk. I just had the trans taken off just to get the diff welded and after 1 1/2yrs of highway fun, stop and go driving, & track time the clutch is perfect. Tim you the man!

I am going to run the Qm. been trying to catch up with TMZ for a week I think he may be out of the country

 

[twicks69]

I am going to run the Qm. been trying to catch up with TMZ for a week I think he may be out of the country

Sorry man, I have not been answering any phone calls last week as I was catching up on paperwork. I will be back up and running Monday.

 

[keltalon]

Sorry man, I have not been answering any phone calls last week as I was catching up on paperwork. I will be back up and running Monday.

Tim I do understand. I will call Monday I have a few questions about options thanks!

 

[keltalon]

Sorry man, I have not been answering any phone calls last week as I was catching up on paperwork. I will be back up and running Monday.

Thanks tim for the clutch!!

 

[lil corb]

Thanks tim for the clutch!!

Did you go with QM? sorry if I am being nosy

 

[keltalon]

Did you go with QM? sorry if I am being nosy

Well at the recommendation of TMZ I ended up going with this set-up first. Tim feels it will be more than enough to suit my needs considering my future plans doesn't include any more upgrades for more power











South Bend Clutch SUPER Heavy Duty B-Series

Full-Face Sprung-Hub Segmented Ceramic Clutch

Assembly for the 1G and 2G FWD/AWD DSM:


SPECIAL PRICE!


Details:

This custom clutch uses the super-heavy-duty SS-X-Series High-Capacity Pressure Plate with an aggressive full-face segmented Ceramic sprung-hub clutch disk. It is designed for higher torque capacity, and higher temperature capacity than the TZ/FE-Series clutch disk, and cannot friction weld itself to the pressure plate or flywheel friction surface.
It is an excellent choice for DSM's making up to 550-650+TQ while retaining better longevity at the race track. This is a very streetable clutch unit that works great for daily use driving, and handling lots of launches on high-horsepower setups. If you are intending on drag racing alot or producing high power levels and don't want the jerkiness of a 6-puck clutch and want to stick with a single disk clutch assembly, this is your best bet to handle the power without slippage.

This is a great choice for drag racing street/strip high-power DSM's!

Since this is a full ceramic clutch disk, it will break in quicker than a Kevlar disk, and won't slip if you overheat the clutch from heavy abuse.

 

[lil corb]

Sounds like a good choice. Hopefully the pressure plate is a newer revised one so it can save you from pulling trans out and sending it back to fix it. Other than that I'm very impressed so far with my sbc tz b. keep is updated.

 

[keltalon]

Sounds like a good choice. Hopefully the pressure plate is a newer revised one so it can save you from pulling trans out and sending it back to fix it. Other than that I'm very impressed so far with my sbc tz b. keep is updated.

Yeah it's the newer version tim stressed this several times to me in my conversation with him. I feel really good about this clutch!

 

[lil corb]

Yeah it's the newer version tim stressed this several times to me in my conversation with him. I feel really good about this clutch!

Awesome!

 

[keltalon]

Awesome!

I will post my review of it in a few days. It came yesterday and I will be installing it today.