Twin disk or Single

[siemens03]

im building a 95 tsi. Going AWD 2.3 stroker fully built head c 280 cams garret 57trim all the good stuff and can get a good deal on a quarter master twin disk but didnt know if it was for me or not. it will be a street strip car for sure and it wont have an easy life by any means. thanks

 

[burkgonzo]

Twin disk, or go automatic like I did.

 

[Tanro]

What numbers are you looking to push? By the sounds of it your gonna want a twin disk, or an auto.

 

[siemens03]

As far as numbers as much as possible . I'm not really sure what kind of numbers it will yield. I just don't want to have any issues. I have been looking at a centerforce dual friction until I found a quartermaster twin disk so now I'm not sure what would be best

 

[SOADweskey]

I can tell you that the centerforce won't handle what that engine can do. I have a PTT twin disk which is very similar to the quarter master and I find it to be acceptable for street driving. It took a bit of getting used to but I just drive it like normal now.

If you don't want to go twin I would say you at least need a 2600lb pressure plate and a 6 puck.

 

[siemens03]

I'm still 7 bolt so I'm trying to stray away from huge clamping forces. Do the twin disks hold more with less pressure?

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

I'm still 7 bolt so I'm trying to stray away from huge clamping forces. Do the twin disks hold more with less pressure?

Yes. More friction area with less pressure = more overall holding ability.
Like SOADweskey said though, it will require some getting used to because of it's on/off nature. But, yes a twin disk setup would help you keep less pressure off your 7bolt.

 

[daren_p]

The CFDF is only rated for 375ft/lbs at the engine, so it probably won't be a good choice for you. I use to run one & it would hold 375ft/lbs at the wheels but I could smell strong clutch smell after every run down the 1/4.

The twin disk setups typically have less pressure on the thrust bearings. But there are single options out there that will give you lower thrust loads & still hold a good amount of power. I'll be running a South Bend setup this year, the PP is 2200-2300lbs with a Kevlar/Feramic dual friction disk. Its rated at 550ft/lbs & should still be fairly light on the thrust bearings. Was told the twin disks setups are typically around 2000-2200lbs.

Next question, why the 57trim turbo? (ie not that common of a turbo choice for our application)

 

[99gst_racer]

It sounds like you won't need a twin disc, and I wouldn't recommend running one until you need one.

Your power goals sound like they will be in the operating range of a good single disc clutch. From experience, I'd recommend an ACT 2600 pressure plate and a 6-puck disc.

 

[twicks69]

I agree with Daren and Paul on this one. The twin-disk is not necessary unless you want to get the fastest shifting possible. If this is a street car, I would suggest trying out the two clutches mentioned or a variation of them.

Do a search for South Bend Clutch SS-Series Pressure plate with a TZ/FE kevlar/feramic dual friction sprung-hub full-face clutch disk

and

ACT2600 with a SBC TZ-Series kevlar sprung-hub full-face clutch disk or a TZ/FE kevlar/feramic dual friction sprung-hub full-face clutch disk.

Both SBC disk options are extremely smooth engagement while handling more heat and better wear life than an organic street disk, as well as being less chattery/harsh than a sprung 6-puck on your drivetrain.

The softer of the two pressure plates would be the SBC SS-Series pressure plate when compared to an ACT 2600 pressure plate.

 

[siemens03]

Awesome guys thanks for all the help. I'll check the clutches mentioned out. As for the turbo I was gonna run a 20g but got a really good deal on this Garret just been rebuilt stage 3 exhaust shaft and such. What would you all have recommended? I was told this is a quick spooling turbo an I wanna make the boost hit as soon as possible. Maybe I'm headed in the wrong direction?

 

[Rockbmx1]

Qm twin, end of story.

 

[twicks69]

Qm twin, end of story.

Though I really stand behind the Quarter Master Gear-Drive HD 7.25" Rally twin-disk clutch assembly, it is substantially more expensive, and really not necessary for this guy's power levels or application.

If you are interested in learning more about it, check out this thread:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dri...ch-sneek-peek-prototype-design-twin-disk.html

As you can see, I am only trying to help the OP get a clutch that will handle his application while being completely streetable and will last a long time. Even though the Quarter Master Gear-Drive is a better clutch in my opinion, it really is overkill for what he wants to do.

Had he said that he was doing a 2.3L stroker motor with 500-600TQ+, with alot of track time and just a bit of street driving, then I would have pushed him in this direction.

 

[daren_p]

Awesome guys thanks for all the help. I'll check the clutches mentioned out. As for the turbo I was gonna run a 20g but got a really good deal on this Garret just been rebuilt stage 3 exhaust shaft and such. What would you all have recommended? I was told this is a quick spooling turbo an I wanna make the boost hit as soon as possible. Maybe I'm headed in the wrong direction?

Not sure your power goals, but I'd typically recommend the "50 trim" over the "57 trim" (if your not exactly sure what "trim" means, do some searching as a bigger trim doesn't necessarly mean a larger turbo) in our application. I haven't compared compressor maps in a long time but the 50 trim is capable of more output vs the 57 trim. 57 trim is probably good for ~400hp or so, while the 50 trim would allow you to get closer to the 500's. Surge line also doesn't look as good for the 57 trim (which could be an issue with a stroker motor), but if your running large cams & a SMIM, that should help.

 

[siemens03]

i do need to find a good link that explains all that about turbos because im still in the dark i wanted one that would spool quick and i was told by a few that this was it. whats surgeline?

 

[daren_p]

i do need to find a good link that explains all that about turbos because im still in the dark i wanted one that would spool quick and i was told by a few that this was it. whats surgeline?

Here's a good link from this board, its a sticky at the top of the turbo tech section:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/199534-turbo-education-thread.html

You may also want to start here at the Garrett website:

TurboByGarrett.com - Turbo Tech101

Follow up the Garrett 101 reading with 102 & 103 sections as well.

While I haven't been around Garret "57 trim" turbo info much lately (so info may be off), IIRC they typically would spool slower then a 50trim, even though their power potential is abit less. That would mean 20g ish power potential but with slower spool.

 

[siemens03]

Thanks you very much for the links and information. I will read up. What turbos would some of you have recomended? thanks for your time and input.

 

[twicks69]

For some reason, I must have missed the part where you said "2.3L Stroker", AND "it wont have an easy life by any means".... .

If this is going to be predominantly a street car, then I would go with my recommendation of the South Bend Clutch SS-Series or SS-X series pressure plate with a TZ/FE kevlar/feramic dual friction clutch disk with the 6-spring HD hub upgrade on an ACT streetlite chromoly steel flywheel. This setup would cost around $700-850 for the flywheel and clutch assembly, new clutch fork, Mitsu OEM TOB, and new pivot ball.

Otherwise, if you are capable of dropping down $1300-1500 for a clutch, then I would look at the Quarter Master Gear-Drive 7.25" V-Drive twin-disk option; ESPECIALLY if you do intend on abusing the car regularly, and doing more racing than street driving. This clutch is a very capable street clutch with great modulation when using the Gear-Drive HD disks. As well, I would recommend a Fluidampr crank harmonic damper to reduce 4th Order harmonics and it will substantially help with reducing decelleration harmonics and chatter. This clutch will have a soft pedal feel and will have less pedal modulation for street use when compared to the single disk clutch listed above, but it will handle ANYTHING you want to throw at it for power or abuse. As well, it is rebuildable.

 

[turboglenn]

Not to bring up an old dead thread but instead of making a new one i have the same choice to make, but i want the broadest most torque power band i can get that's peaked at a minimum 500hp or a tad more.

I want to be able to save driveline parts by being abnle to feed the clutch out for the first 60ft if i have to and don't want it to break a sweat. I know i'm going at least 4 gear spider CD in my trans, and i want ot be able to ride the clutch out likei do on my GSXR 750 where i hold the power WOT and feed trction to the wheels via the clutch and keep the front floating all through first.

Is there any single disk tht can handle this repeatesly and still get me home reliably?

Thinking I want one of the ~1000 dollars twin disks at most, (if i sell my parts) that's what i can afford while still affording to have my trans gone through and at least rebuild with the 4 spider CD, double synrho 2n and although i'd like a HD 3-4 gears set, i could go with bead blasted and detailed OEM units, But before i buy insane axles and t-cases i wantto be able to just abuse the hell out of the clutch time after time and have it not fall apart.. I love the feel of a race car on the street so cahtter probably aint anything to me (unless it's crazy bad)

And anything to help shift as fast as possible with the least effort is good

plus one last thing, my injuries left my left leg and spinal area/nerves f*cked up and painfull so the less pedal input the better,m I drove an RPs twin and it was like a 2100 at most, i coudl do that all day

 

[98SpyderAWD]

I upraded to an ACT twin disk from my ACT 2600 with a 6 puck. The twin disc has near stock pedal feel and clamps hard! The 6 puck held great for my power levels, but as I turn up the boost on race gas, the 2600 will not hold.

 

[turboglenn]

Anyone else DD a twin disk? for their only car? ANd how bad is the chattering i mean will it drive you nuts or is it jsut one of those things you can put up with for the extra assurance the clutch won't smoke out and die on you

also are there any other single palte units that can handle the type of abuse like that? i've heard ceramatlics can take heat and grip better but i'm not sure what ones.

I'm looking to make 500-550 WHP with an occasional niutrous shot of 70hp on top, and i want my torque to be well over 400 (450's range is what i'm after) adn io want a clutch that can take whatever i throw at it.

Also, can you buy an upgraded center diff only anywhere for a decent price? I dont' want to weld mine but i also don't want to keep running on a 2 spider center being affraid i'm gonna smoke my trans everytime i stup on the gas

 

[Moonlight GSX]

Anyone else DD a twin disk? for their only car? ANd how bad is the chattering i mean will it drive you nuts or is it jsut one of those things you can put up with for the extra assurance the clutch won't smoke out and die on you

also are there any other single palte units that can handle the type of abuse like that? i've heard ceramatlics can take heat and grip better but i'm not sure what ones.

I'm looking to make 500-550 WHP with an occasional niutrous shot of 70hp on top, and i want my torque to be well over 400 (450's range is what i'm after) adn io want a clutch that can take whatever i throw at it.

Also, can you buy an upgraded center diff only anywhere for a decent price? I dont' want to weld mine but i also don't want to keep running on a 2 spider center being affraid i'm gonna smoke my trans everytime i stup on the gas

I would also like to know this... only difference is I'm looking to make roughly 700-800whp as a DD, well not a full DD but something that will be driven everyone once in a while on the street for "fun" and get some decent track time in. Any recommendations? I plan on running a built 2.3L 7-bolt and either a GT3586R or 4088R...

 

[SOADweskey]

I DD'd my PTT twin for about 2 years in my only car. I thought it was fine as far as drive ability. It was even manageable in LA stop and go traffic inching along the freeways.

I recently changed back to a single disk but only because I was only getting around 10k miles of life at a time from the clutch disks and I was getting sick of pulling my trans so often. Although it was nice that every time the disks wore out the rest of the clutch was fine and I only needed to through new disks in.

 

[Moonlight GSX]

I DD'd my PTT twin for about 2 years in my only car. I thought it was fine as far as drive ability. It was even manageable in LA stop and go traffic inching along the freeways.

I recently changed back to a single disk but only because I was only getting around 10k miles of life at a time from the clutch disks and I was getting sick of pulling my trans so often. Although it was nice that every time the disks wore out the rest of the clutch was fine and I only needed to through new disks in.

Would you say I'd have the same problem on a 700whp setup? I mean, I don't think I'd be using it as my only car, as stated above, but maybe I could get it to last a bit longer?

 

[turboglenn]

I DD'd my PTT twin for about 2 years in my only car. I thought it was fine as far as drive ability. It was even manageable in LA stop and go traffic inching along the freeways.

I recently changed back to a single disk but only because I was only getting around 10k miles of life at a time from the clutch disks and I was getting sick of pulling my trans so often. Although it was nice that every time the disks wore out the rest of the clutch was fine and I only needed to through new disks in.

This is exactly what i'm affraid of with a twin. A friend of mine has a close to 800hp DD and althogh it's a 99 it has less than 40k miles on it cause its' always breaking driveline parts , but the thing is he got the RPS twin when it first came out (about 3k dollars) and it didnt last 3k miles before he had to send it in and they rebuilt it and sent it back, really dissapointing to see it go that fast on his car when it wasn't (and since i was tuning and working on the car i saw first hand how little abuse it took, it was "dumped" more than slipped and really just daily driven from light to light around town then when we sorted the issue with making more power, we didn't get an hour into our tuning session (again no launches) and the thing barely got us the 5 blocks in hisneighborhood back to the house and it was shot@!

I got damn near 85K miles out of my first ACT 2600 in FWD mode, but the organic disks are going fast in AWD mode.. i'm relaly looking into the zimmer preffered south bend ceramic/feramic unit.. i only wonder how it can hold so much torque with only a 2200 lb pressure plate.. is it all in thefriction disk/?