1G Timing / biss adjustment

[ROOKIE1]

Ok , so profile is up to date . I have everything reassembled . All timing marks ( cams and crank ) line up . Car starts idles wildly dies . If I give it gas it will run , although at high rpms and rough . How do I check these things with a car that will not stay running . Is a 90 Talon . New on car are arps, e316g , Stage 2 sbr head , oil pump , water pump , no bs , tensioner , tensioner pulleys , evo mani , new plugs range 6 or 7 , 20 over bore w/ wiseco 8.5-1 in block .

 

[Auto RS T]

The car should be up to temp when attempting to tune, you should be able to see the values change fairly quickly after you change the percentage. Don't take out or add more than 3% on the AFC at a time. I found that makes things very easy.

To be sure the air leak is the injector seals, spray them with soapy water during a boost leak test and look for bubbles.

I purchased all the seals needed for stock and FIC style injectors from a local shop in town. Some aftermarket injectors require the same seals as stock. They are a NAPA autocare center so I would assume this is where the seals came from. Bring one of your 550's with so it will be easy for them to get the right seals, and you can check it yourself that way before you leave the store.

Make sure that 2G inake pipe is for a 1G with a 2G MAS.

 

[ROOKIE1]

Reset ecu , installed 2g maf , installed dejon intake . No cels . Have not leak tested yet ( waiting on tester to arrive) . But When I start car And keep throttle so it runs . My fuel trim stays at 100% regardless of percentage . + or - does not effect car at all . I know I nees to boost leak test , but what else can I check ?

 

[Auto RS T]

1G BISS adjustment.

Ignition timing adjustment.

I think we may be back to here again (rookie1). Adjust the base timing and idle speed.

I am understanding that your foot on the pedal is needed to keep the car running.

It may take the car to be fully warmed up for the trims to change. I don't think they will change just after you fire the car up and start adding or subtracting percentage on the AFC. I think it needs to go into closed loop first. Then you will see the changes.

Have you read the AFC tuning guide?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58403

 

[ROOKIE1]

I think we may be back to here again (rookie1). Adjust the base timing and idle speed.

I am understanding that your foot on the pedal is needed to keep the car running.

It may take the car to be fully warmed up for the trims to change. I don't think they will change just after you fire the car up and start adding or subtracting percentage on the AFC. I think it needs to go into closed loop first. Then you will see the changes.

Have you read the AFC tuning guide?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58403

Seems that way . Hard things to check when working alone and the car will not stay running . The car was at normal operating temp ( warmed up) . Also since it seems to be a fuel issue , shouldn't my loggeer show a lower or higher fuel trim . It stays at 100 % . What do you mean by closed loop ? And yes I have read multiple tuning threads . But we are all different . It is hard to get a base setting for my particular setup . Makes it even more frustrating when car dies after startup . Right now I would take a crappy idle just so I could work on it running . I will get it , just not alone .

 

[Auto RS T]

When I said closed loop I was talking about the o2 sensor being warm and going into its cycle. The car will be not be in closed loop when at WOT, or start up. That is called open.

When I work alone and have idle issues, I "cheat" the BISS screw. I screw it out without doing the idle procedure in hopes to keep the car running until I can get underhood and do the procedure correctly. Maybe this will work for you. It may not sound like the best idea but it has helped me a couple times when swapping TBs.

How far is your BISS screwed in? Make sure it isn't bottomed out, maybe you buried it when you tried to adjust the wild idle.

 

[ROOKIE1]

When I said closed loop I was talking about the o2 sensor being warm and going into its cycle. The car will be not be in closed loop when at WOT, or start up. That is called open.

When I work alone and have idle issues, I "cheat" the BISS screw. I screw it out without doing the idle procedure in hopes to keep the car running until I can get underhood and do the procedure correctly. Maybe this will work for you. It may not sound like the best idea but it has helped me a couple times when swapping TBs.

How far is your BISS screwed in? Make sure it isn't bottomed out, maybe you buried it when you tried to adjust the wild idle.

I will cheat in the morning . The screw is 2 full screw driver rotations from bottom . I am going to replace lower injector seals also .

 

[ROOKIE1]

Biss adjustment changes nothing . Idle very irratic . Can't check timing as idle is up and down . Very jumpy even with pins grounded out . What to check now ? Contributing factors to idle / stalling . Afc was zero out . Change low throttle to +5 also . Same result . There is backfire in engine . Engine was up to temp @200* .

 

[Auto RS T]

Have you done the leak test yet?

Since screwing the BISS makes no change I am under the impression that unmetered air is getting into the engine somewhere.

Check for vacuum leaks and boost leaks.

 

[ROOKIE1]

Have you done the leak test yet?

Since screwing the BISS makes no change I am under the impression that unmetered air is getting into the engine somewhere.

Check for vacuum leaks and boost leaks.

Just got tester today . I will post back .

 

[ROOKIE1]

Tried boost leak test . It will hold no pressure , gauge does not move . When car is running , boost gauge does move from vac to boost ( while everything was still hooked up , intake blah blah blah ) . When I do test it does nothing . Pcv not hooked up and zip tied vac hose off of wastegate . Found 3 leaks . Throttle body and uicp on both ends . Fixed those . I hear air around im , but soapy water shows nothing .

 

[oldman]

Are you using an air compressor? Did you open the oil cap and take a listen? Do the same at the tailpipe.

 

[ROOKIE1]

Compressor , yes . Why on oil cap and exhaust ?

 

[oldman]

oil cap

Pressure leaking into crankcase via valve seals, piston rings or turbo seal.

exhaust

Pressure leaking out of exhaust via defective EGR valve, bent valves, unseated valves or valve overlap.

Did you disable/disconnect your mbc as well?

 

[ROOKIE1]

Pressure leaking into crankcase via valve seals, piston rings or turbo seal.


Pressure leaking out of exhaust via defective EGR valve, bent valves, unseated valves or valve overlap.

Did you disable/disconnect your mbc as well?

New head , turbo and rebuilt bottom , so I hope not . Egr perhaps . Valve overlap = open valves ? What is torque on intake mani ? Maybe not tight enough ? Nevermind I got Haynes . I do have the magnus spacer (plastic gasket ) on there . I know they are new but , any failures with them yet . I did ziptie the vac line on wastegate and had key in the on position during test . I removed the pcv line and air came out of there . I hooked it back up , but still no pressure .

 

[ROOKIE1]

How much of a difference will it make if I test when car is cold ? Also , since I just found out emissions testing ended here , will I eliminate alot of leak points if I remove the throttle body vac lines ? I know it says to cap off at tb , but do I also cap off at other ends of hoses ? Blockoff egr ? Will that throw a code ? I will recheck on saturday I hope . But , if I can eliminate potential leak points by removal I will do that before test . One more question . What size caps do I need for my nipples ?

 

[Auto RS T]

First, was your motor set at approximately 30* ATDC? (A=After TDC)

I am not sure if there would be a difference between testing warm or cold for a boost leak test. I'm sure things expand and contract with heat and cold but I don't see why the sealing areas would be effected by this significantly. If you do test warm, be careful not to get burned. Aren't they designed to work in cold and hot climates/conditions to begin with?

I always do them after the car has been sitting or parked, and that is why I am unsure. I bet that Oldman has done a boost leak test on a DSM in most (possibly all) shapes and forms...maybe he has compared both hot and cold tests?

When removing the emission lines you are basically eliminating everything from the vacuum source where the vac lines go anyway. So I would say you could plug the lines possibly. Except the fuel tank vent line... I used a smaller orifice hose, shoved it on the vent line and ran it away from the engine compartment. I should probably go research this more in depth since I kind of "jumped in" on doing the removal. I got rid of the charcoal canister, FPR solenoid, Purge solenoid, and EGR, this was after I replaced them and had them looking good.

Removing the EGR would only create a CEL on a California ECU equipped 1G.

I have read that a good quality nipple can be purchased at an ACE Hardware store, the poster said they were red in color and lasted longer than the other black plugs he had been using. For the size, just cut a small piece of the hosing and take it with you to compare at the store.

 

[ROOKIE1]

First, was your motor set at approximately 30* ATDC? (A=After TDC) Aren't they designed to work in cold and hot climates/conditions to begin with?

.

Did not know motor had to be set at 30* atdc . Had not read that . . Cold / hot , I meant the engine temps itself . Not outside climate conditions . So if I remove those lines it will eliminate alot of potential boost leak problems , right ?

 

[Auto RS T]

Setting the motor at 30* ATDC has to do with the valve overlap.

If you do test warm, be careful not to get burned.

... I knew what you were saying. I meant like radiator hose, exhaust, etc...

Removing these things could eliminate a boost leak...

 

[ROOKIE1]

Setting the motor at 30* ATDC has yo do with the valve overlap.

So there is less/no overlap at 30* atdc ? Also during test , is the pvc hose connected or not ?

 

[Auto RS T]

30* ATDC has been found to be a good testing point. Obviously all the valves cannot be closed at the same time, so we use 30* for the best results. Being at TDC, for example would mean that cylinder 4 is in overlap.

You can leave the PCV in during the test. 99.9% of them leak. (Brute) I believe, has had good results with running a check valve on the PCV line to help eliminate the leak. I plan on doing this in the future.

Or you can remove it too, that would just leave it untested though.

 

[ROOKIE1]

So far I have repaired a few huge vac leaks . Mainly throttle body and uicp . I also have a leak at the tps . Is that shaft seals ? Also how many psi should I hold ? To date , I can only get it to about 9 on boost gauge . Still have some leaks though . Other than the t-bolt clamps , what are others that are strong enough ? The standard worm clamps , I can not seem to get a good seal or they strip out .

 

[Auto RS T]

The boost leak at the TPS would be the shaft seals. I am actually going to be replacing my TB seals as soon as the guy in brown shows up. Remember to mark the spring, there is a vfaq on it.

You should be able to test up to 20 psi. I would have recommended the T-bolt clamps to replace the worms, so I am no help there.

 

[ROOKIE1]

Where do I get shaft seals for a 90? Dealer ?? The whole marking the spring thing makes no sense to me . How do you know what to set the tension to ? You could over turn it and still line it up .

 

[Auto RS T]

Here is a link to the 90 seal size and o-ring info if you go that route.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153753&highlight=shaft+seals

If the tension was incorrect the line would spiral around the shaft and wouldn't be straight.

 

[ROOKIE1]

I am going the seal route . There is a company down the street from me that carries the Cr seals . Finally caught a break . Damn those seals are expensive , but close .