2G Timing belt blues

[Bigbeanbird]

Hey gang, got some questions about a timing belt change.

Why would I have to undercut the tensioner arm so the tensioner pulley would rotate enough to get proper 25 in lbs?

This would be rotating the pulley counterclockwise, now, just for shits and giggles I rotated the pulley in a clockwise direction, (holes being on the top instead of the bottom) and it seemed to work, IE:: no binding. As far as I know it is a 97 GST, could it be a different block? I know there are 2 kinds of arms and maybe 3 kinds of tensioners, really lost and friggen mad.

Any help would be appreciated and for sure used. Thanks a ton

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[steve]

Kinda looks like a 1G 6-bolt tensioner arm. The top one in this picture. The Hyd Tensioner looks to me a 7-bolt kind.

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[DSMPT]

I have explained about this somewhere but I can't find it to link.

The 1g and 2g tensioner pulley are not the same, and NOT interchangeable. The height (depth/offset) is different and which pulley you need would depend "what tensioner arm you use". If your tensioner arm is 6 bolt or 1g 7 bolt, you must use the 1g tensioner pulley. If the tensioner arm is 2g, you must use the 2g pulley.

If the pulley and the tensioner arm are mismatched, the pulley would interfere with the arm and/or the timing belt wouldn't sit in center. Besides the worn tensioner arm bushing, this is one of the reasons why the timing belt would slide to the edge of cam gears.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Umm, nice effort on making the pulley spin, but I don’t think you can run that.

The belt and all the belt teeth have to clear as well.

If you have the right parts you don’t need to grind anything.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

Kinda looks like a 1G 6-bolt tensioner arm. The top one in this picture. The Hyd Tensioner looks to me a 7-bolt kind.

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So.. thanks for turbo reply, I guess my first chore would be to identify the block then go from there… maybe it is a 1G and I bought parts for a 2G.. yikes.. I put the two spanner holes on the top, got a good pin pull and all marks lined up

I have explained about this somewhere but I can't find it to link.
The 1g and 2g tensioner pulley are not the same, and NOT interchangeable. The height (depth/offset) is different and which pulley you need would depend "what tensioner arm you use". If your tensioner arm is 6 bolt or 1g 7 bolt, you must use the 1g tensioner pulley. If the tensioner arm is 2g, you must use the 2g pulley.
If the pulley and the tensioner arm are mismatched, the pulley would interfere with the arm and/or the timing belt wouldn't sit in center. Besides the worn tensioner arm bushing, this is one of the reasons why the timing belt would slide to the edge of cam gears.

Thank you sir.. I’m just loving the wisemen right now..!! When I did get stupid and broke out the grinder, the belt was doing exactly that, wandering off the front of the cam pulleys.. it only took me two turns of the crank to see that.. took it all apart and opted to torque with holes on top, so far so good

Umm, nice effort on making the pulley spin, but I don’t think you can run that.

The belt and all the belt teeth have to clear as well.

If you have the right parts you don’t need to grind anything.

, right parts no grinding.. so true.. I’m kinda new to the DSM turbo game.. when I tried to torque counterclockwise, the tooth side of the belt was actually hitting on the tensioner arm bolt ( well the washer anyhow)..a screw story right now, but,I went clockwise and things lined up and tension was good.. think it’s ok to run it like that..??

 

[Justin DuBois]

, right parts no grinding.. so true.. I’m kinda new to the DSM turbo game.. when I tried to torque counterclockwise, the tooth side of the belt was actually hitting on the tensioner arm bolt ( well the washer anyhow)..a screw story right now, but,I went clockwise and things lined up and tension was good.. think it’s ok to run it like that..??

There are plenty of places were creativity comes in handy - Timing Belts and all the spinning components for timing is not one of them. You don't want to risk it. 4G63's are "interference" motors that require the piston and valves be timed correctly to prevent bent valves. If you spin the crank without the valve timing correct, it will kill the valves in one rotation.

This forum can help you identify and locate the correct parts. Double - and triple check - rotate by hand, and don't mess up your valves.

 

[DSMPT]

I went clockwise and things lined up and tension was good.. think it’s ok to run it like that..??

Wait a sec. The belt and pulleys are not lined up yet. Even you clear the interfere between the pulley and the arm by rotating the pulley clockwise, the belt would still move once the engine is running because the position of tensioner pulley ridge would be different between 1g pulley and 2g pulley due to diffent offset.

In the first pic, you seem to have :
- 2g early 95 tensioner
- 1g tensioner arm
- 2g tensioner pulley

So you have them mismatched.
Also the 1g and 2g tensioner arm, the 1g 7 bolt and 2g 7 bolt tensioner are not the same and NOT interchangeable neither due to different arm length and angle . So you can not use the 1g arm with the 2g 7 bolt tensioner or vice-versa. The tensioner push rod tip wouldn't contact to the arm as it should.

I don't know what block you have, but as I see the tensioner is 7 bolt, I assume you have either 1g 7 bolt or 2g block. You should combine the timing components as all 1g or all 2g, not mixed up.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

In the first pic, you seem to have :
- 2g early 95 tensioner
- 1g tensioner arm
- 2g tensioner pulley

So you have them mismatched.
Also the 1g and 2g tensioner arm, the 1g 7 bolt and 2g 7 bolt tensioner are not the same and NOT interchangeable neither due to different arm length and angle . So you can not use the 1g arm with the 2g 7 bolt tensioner or vice-versa. The tensioner push rod tip wouldn't contact to the arm as it should.

I don't know what block you have, but as I see the tensioner is 7 bolt, I assume you have either 1g 7 bolt or 2g block. You should combine the timing components as all 1g or all 2g, not mixed up.

This forum can help you identify and locate the correct parts. Double - and triple check - rotate by hand, and don't mess up your valves.

Dang, what is the best way to identify what I’m working with so I can supply it with parts? Thanks.

I checked the valve timing with the bastard pulley clockwise and it looked to line up, so I put it back together and fired it up (was kinda hoping it would detonate so I could start a whole new rebuild at this point). It ran ok though, let it idle for a couple minutes and noticed some oil so I shut it down for the night, but it did run and the belt didn’t wander at all.

Thanks again and this car WILL run.

 

[DSMPT]

Dang, what is the best way to identify what I’m working with so I can supply it with parts? Thanks.

I checked the valve timing with the bastard pulley clockwise and it looked to line up, so I put it back together and fired it up (was kinda hoping it would detonate so I could start a whole new rebuild at this point). It ran ok though, let it idle for a couple minutes and noticed some oil so I shut it down for the night, but it did run and the belt didn’t wander at all.

Thanks again and this car WILL run.

The wrong pulley has nothing to do with setting the valve timing. So you "can" set the timing and run the engine with the wrong pulley regardless of clear the arm/pulley interference or not. Actually I have seen sometimes people running like that without recognizing the mistake. But the interference is not the only thing you have to concern.

Again, yes you can run like that unless you care about the differences between the correct combination and wrong combination that I will try to explain below.

Please refer the pics.
Pic #1 :
1g and 2g pulley have the same height/width.
Pic #2 and #3 :
Correct combinations. 1g arm with 1g tensioner pulley, and 2g arm with 2g tensioner pulley. You can see the tensioner pulley position is the same between 1g and 2g, and is lined up with the idler pulley.
Pic #4 and #5 :
Wrong combinations. 1g arm with 2g tensioner pulley, and 2g arm with 1g tensioner pulley. You can see the tensioner pulley and the idler pulley are NOT lined up. When you have this mismatching, you often see that the edge of timing belt is out of the idler pulley or/and the belt doesn't sit in center of cam gears or/and the idler pulley. (Probably your case is this)
Pic #6 and #7 :
The offset difference between 1g and 2g that I mentioned above. Right pulley is 1g and left is 2g. Top arm is 1g and bottom is 2g.
You see about a millimeter difference between 1g and 2g.
The 2g tensioner pulley offset is deeper and the 1g arm provision offset to mount the pulley is lower than 2g's. That's why your 2g pulley interfered with the 1g arm. If you run the engine with the interference, the timing belt surface gets damaged or melted by the friction with non spinning pulley.

Also wrong combination may cause the timing belt bounced up and down, swung/slid left and right when the engine speed is faster. It would risk the timing belt failure, worn out, shorten the belt life span etc. In the worst case scenario, the timing belt may come off. I believe it might also be one of the causes of mysterious worn oil pump gears and the drive gear shaft due to unnecessary vibration and side load at the oil pump sprocket by non straight timing belt movement.

Anyways this would affect much more and cause worse when the engine speed is faster like 7000~8000rpm than when rotating the crank by hand. Like Justin said, if the timing belt would fail while running, it may cost you so much money and time to repair. So just make sure that you are doing correctly with the right parts.

As for the tensioner, I thought you have an early 95 2g tensioner but I think the one in the pic is 1g 7 bolt but probably aftermarket, it has a different flange..
So if you have a 1g 7 bolt block, just get a 1g tensioner pulley. That's the only way to go.

If you are not sure how to do correctly, upload a pic of timing side. So we can point if we see something is not right..

Pic #1 (2g tensioner pulley / 1g tensioner pulley)

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Pic #2 (1g tensioner pulley on 1g tensioner arm)

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Pic #3 (2g tensioner pulley on 2g tensioner arm)

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Pic #4 (2g tensioner pulley on 1g tensioner arm)

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Pic #5 (1g tensioner pulley on 2g tensioner arm)

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Pic #6 (Offset difference between 2g tensioner pulley (Left) and 1g tensioner pulley (Right))

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Pic #7 (Offset difference between 1g tensioner arm (Top) and 2g tensioner arm (Bottom))

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[Bigbeanbird]

The wrong pulley has nothing to do with setting the valve timing. So you "can" set the timing and run the engine with the wrong pulley regardless of clear the arm/pulley interference or not. Actually I have seen sometimes people running like that without recognizing the mistake. But the interference is not the only thing you have to concern.
Again, yes you can run like that unless you care about the differences between the correct combination and wrong combination that I will try to explain below.

Please refer the pics.
Pic #1 :
1g and 2g pulley have the same height/width.
Pic #2 and #3 :
Correct combinations. 1g arm with 1g tensioner pulley, and 2g arm with 2g tensioner pulley. You can see the tensioner pulley position is the same between 1g and 2g, and is lined up with the idler pulley.
Pic #4 and #5 :
Wrong combinations. 1g arm with 2g tensioner pulley, and 2g arm with 1g tensioner pulley. You can see the tensioner pulley and the idler pulley are NOT lined up. When you have this mismatching, you often see that the edge of timing belt is out of the idler pulley or/and the belt doesn't sit in center of cam gears or/and the idler pulley. (Probably your case is this)
Pic #6 and #7 :
The offset difference between 1g and 2g that I mentioned above. Right pulley is 1g and left is 2g. Top arm is 1g and bottom is 2g.
You see about a millimeter difference between 1g and 2g.
The 2g tensioner pulley offset is deeper and the 1g arm provision offset to mount the pulley is lower than 2g's. That's why your 2g pulley interfered with the 1g arm. If you run the engine with the interference, the timing belt surface gets damaged or melted by the friction with non spinning pulley.
Also wrong combination may cause the timing belt bounced up and down, swung/slid left and right when the engine speed is faster. It would risk the timing belt failure, worn out, shorten the belt life span etc. In the worst case scenario, the timing belt may come off. I believe it might also be one of the causes of mysterious worn oil pump gears and the drive gear shaft due to unnecessary vibration and side load at the oil pump sprocket by non straight timing belt movement.
Anyways this would affect much more and cause worse when the engine speed is faster like 7000~8000rpm than when rotating the crank by hand. Like Justin said, if the timing belt would fail while running, it may cost you so much money and time to repair. So just make sure that you are doing correctly with the right parts.

As for the tensioner, I thought you have an early 95 2g tensioner but I think the one in the pic is 1g 7 bolt but probably aftermarket, it has a different flange..
So if you have a 1g 7 bolt block, just get a 1g tensioner pulley. That's the only way to go.

If you are not sure how to do correctly, upload a pic of timing side. So we can point if we see something is not right..

Pic #1 (2g tensioner pulley / 1g tensioner pulley)

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Pic #2 (1g tensioner pulley on 1g tensioner arm)

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Pic #3 (2g tensioner pulley on 2g tensioner arm)

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Pic #4 (2g tensioner pulley on 1g tensioner arm)

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Pic #5 (1g tensioner pulley on 2g tensioner arm)

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Pic #6 (Offset difference between 2g tensioner pulley (Left) and 1g tensioner pulley (Right))

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Pic #7 (Offset difference between 1g tensioner arm (Top) and 2g tensioner arm (Bottom))

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I see exactly what you mean.. can I identify the motor by a placard or stamping id..??? That way I know what to buy when needed.. thanks for the super write up, it made perfect sense and NO, I DO NOT WANT THE TIMING BELT TO FLY AWAY..!! That would be a very baaad thing.. let me ask you this, is there a place where I can order decent hoses that would replace all of the hoses..?? Water, oil,piss and vinegar..??? Bless you oh wise man..

 

[pauleyman]

Is that a

I see exactly what you mean.. can I identify the motor by a placard or stamping id..??? That way I know what to buy when needed.. thanks for the super write up, it made perfect sense and NO, I DO NOT WANT THE TIMING BELT TO FLY AWAY..!! That would be a very baaad thing.. let me ask you this, is there a place where I can order decent hoses that would replace all of the hoses..?? Water, oil,piss and vinegar..??? Bless you oh wise man..

Try this post

decoding engine block numbers

Ive been reading that the best way to identify a block was to check the block stamp on the passenger side by the tranny, well I found the number but cant find anything on checking what means what. Its all numbers and the tenth is the letter V, thats the only letter. I am checking the right spot...

www.dsmtuners.com

Read #9
I cannot speak for the quality but I needed hoses for my latest project. I bought G-Plus on Amazon and the kit comes with all 11 coolant hoses for a stock 2g. For what it's worth I ditched the cheap hose clamps it comes with and used my own.
Engine identifying has been discussed to death on these forums. 7 bolts both 1 and 2g have a dip in the oil pan under the crank pulley. 6 bolt pans are flat.
2g engine blocks do not have bosses for a motor mount front or rear. This is the same reason you can't put a 2g motor in a 1g but you CAN put a 1g motor in a 2g.
1g has the front and rear mounts on the block. 2g they are on the trans. Easy to spot even without a VIN tag.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Is that a

Try this post

decoding engine block numbers

Ive been reading that the best way to identify a block was to check the block stamp on the passenger side by the tranny, well I found the number but cant find anything on checking what means what. Its all numbers and the tenth is the letter V, thats the only letter. I am checking the right spot...

www.dsmtuners.com

Read #9
I cannot speak for the quality but I needed hoses for my latest project. I bought G-Plus on Amazon and the kit comes with all 11 coolant hoses for a stock 2g. For what it's worth I ditched the cheap hose clamps it comes with and used my own.
Engine identifying has been discussed to death on these forums. 7 bolts both 1 and 2g have a dip in the oil pan under the crank pulley. 6 bolt pans are flat.
2g engine blocks do not have bosses for a motor mount front or rear. This is the same reason you can't put a 2g motor in a 1g but you CAN put a 1g motor in a 2g.
1g has the front and rear mounts on the block. 2g they are on the trans. Easy to spot even without a VIN tag.

I just picked up the 2G g-plus silicone hose kit too. Also going to discard the clamps, but the hoses look good. Lots of custom bends.

Amazon.com

 

[pauleyman]

I just picked up the 2G g-plus silicone hose kit too. Also going to discard the clamps, but the hoses look good. Lots of custom bends.

I believe the car I have to be very original and OEM. Each of the Gplus hoses matched bend for bend to OEM. Some hoses always need a little trimming to length. heater core and radiator specifically.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

I just picked up the 2G g-plus silicone hose kit too. Also going to discard the clamps, but the hoses look good. Lots of custom bends.

Amazon.com

Very nice, thank you.. kinda funny, but not, I put this thing back together last night and started it and noticed some oil dripping.. I mean like half a quart.. checked it out this morning and saw that I had left something out, like the dipstick tube.!!! , moronic move

 

[Bigbeanbird]

The wrong pulley has nothing to do with setting the valve timing. So you "can" set the timing and run the engine with the wrong pulley regardless of clear the arm/pulley interference or not. Actually I have seen sometimes people running like that without recognizing the mistake. But the interference is not the only thing you have to concern.
Again, yes you can run like that unless you care about the differences between the correct combination and wrong combination that I will try to explain below.

Please refer the pics.
Pic #1 :
1g and 2g pulley have the same height/width.
Pic #2 and #3 :
Correct combinations. 1g arm with 1g tensioner pulley, and 2g arm with 2g tensioner pulley. You can see the tensioner pulley position is the same between 1g and 2g, and is lined up with the idler pulley.
Pic #4 and #5 :
Wrong combinations. 1g arm with 2g tensioner pulley, and 2g arm with 1g tensioner pulley. You can see the tensioner pulley and the idler pulley are NOT lined up. When you have this mismatching, you often see that the edge of timing belt is out of the idler pulley or/and the belt doesn't sit in center of cam gears or/and the idler pulley. (Probably your case is this)
Pic #6 and #7 :
The offset difference between 1g and 2g that I mentioned above. Right pulley is 1g and left is 2g. Top arm is 1g and bottom is 2g.
You see about a millimeter difference between 1g and 2g.
The 2g tensioner pulley offset is deeper and the 1g arm provision offset to mount the pulley is lower than 2g's. That's why your 2g pulley interfered with the 1g arm. If you run the engine with the interference, the timing belt surface gets damaged or melted by the friction with non spinning pulley.
Also wrong combination may cause the timing belt bounced up and down, swung/slid left and right when the engine speed is faster. It would risk the timing belt failure, worn out, shorten the belt life span etc. In the worst case scenario, the timing belt may come off. I believe it might also be one of the causes of mysterious worn oil pump gears and the drive gear shaft due to unnecessary vibration and side load at the oil pump sprocket by non straight timing belt movement.
Anyways this would affect much more and cause worse when the engine speed is faster like 7000~8000rpm than when rotating the crank by hand. Like Justin said, if the timing belt would fail while running, it may cost you so much money and time to repair. So just make sure that you are doing correctly with the right parts.

As for the tensioner, I thought you have an early 95 2g tensioner but I think the one in the pic is 1g 7 bolt but probably aftermarket, it has a different flange..
So if you have a 1g 7 bolt block, just get a 1g tensioner pulley. That's the only way to go.

If you are not sure how to do correctly, upload a pic of timing side. So we can point if we see something is not right..

Pic #1 (2g tensioner pulley / 1g tensioner pulley)

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Pic #2 (1g tensioner pulley on 1g tensioner arm)

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Pic #3 (2g tensioner pulley on 2g tensioner arm)

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Pic #4 (2g tensioner pulley on 1g tensioner arm)

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Pic #5 (1g tensioner pulley on 2g tensioner arm)

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Pic #6 (Offset difference between 2g tensioner pulley (Left) and 1g tensioner pulley (Right))

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Pic #7 (Offset difference between 1g tensioner arm (Top) and 2g tensioner arm (Bottom))

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So check it out.. during this tom foolery, being the hard headed knuckle brain I am, I went for a little drive after I started it and didn’t see the belt wandering at all, and it pulled REALLY HARD but I never got it past 5000 rpm.. then I decided to try a 3rd gear pull to 7000.. had some choking at about 6000 and that was the best I could get out of her.. got home and popped the hood and about shit myself..!! Check out the pics.. needless to say that car moved no more until I get this settled and I got VERY VERY VERY lucky.. thanks for the input again, gonna work on her today, no rain..!!

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[DSMPT]

So check it out.. during this tom foolery, being the hard headed knuckle brain I am, I went for a little drive after I started it and didn’t see the belt wandering at all, and it pulled REALLY HARD but I never got it past 5000 rpm.. then I decided to try a 3rd gear pull to 7000.. had some choking at about 6000 and that was the best I could get out of her.. got home and popped the hood and about shit myself..!! Check out the pics.. needless to say that car moved no more until I get this settled and I got VERY VERY VERY lucky.. thanks for the input again, gonna work on her today, no rain..!!

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Lesson learned. Yeah this is exactly what I was trying to tell you why a mismatched tensioner pulley would be a huge risk of timing belt failure. Yes you were lucky, it costed only a belt. Anyways I am glad you found it before the situation gets worse.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

Lesson learned. Yeah this is exactly what I was trying to tell you why a mismatched tensioner pulley would be a huge risk of timing belt failure. Yes you were lucky, it costed only a belt. Anyways I am glad you found it before the situation gets worse.

Yes sir, lesson learned.. won’t happen again for sure.. I’m just gonna take a few breaths on the engine and work on the interior for awhile.. kinda funny though, the wife says “I TOLD YOU SO..!!), and I had to eat it.. it amazes me how hard DSM’s pull.. I have a 2000 eclipse gt with the V6 with cat back exhaust and K&N filter for mods, and this GST will demolish it on any track.. nice

 

[Bigbeanbird]

The wrong pulley has nothing to do with setting the valve timing. So you "can" set the timing and run the engine with the wrong pulley regardless of clear the arm/pulley interference or not. Actually I have seen sometimes people running like that without recognizing the mistake. But the interference is not the only thing you have to concern.
Again, yes you can run like that unless you care about the differences between the correct combination and wrong combination that I will try to explain below.

Please refer the pics.
Pic #1 :
1g and 2g pulley have the same height/width.
Pic #2 and #3 :
Correct combinations. 1g arm with 1g tensioner pulley, and 2g arm with 2g tensioner pulley. You can see the tensioner pulley position is the same between 1g and 2g, and is lined up with the idler pulley.
Pic #4 and #5 :
Wrong combinations. 1g arm with 2g tensioner pulley, and 2g arm with 1g tensioner pulley. You can see the tensioner pulley and the idler pulley are NOT lined up. When you have this mismatching, you often see that the edge of timing belt is out of the idler pulley or/and the belt doesn't sit in center of cam gears or/and the idler pulley. (Probably your case is this)
Pic #6 and #7 :
The offset difference between 1g and 2g that I mentioned above. Right pulley is 1g and left is 2g. Top arm is 1g and bottom is 2g.
You see about a millimeter difference between 1g and 2g.
The 2g tensioner pulley offset is deeper and the 1g arm provision offset to mount the pulley is lower than 2g's. That's why your 2g pulley interfered with the 1g arm. If you run the engine with the interference, the timing belt surface gets damaged or melted by the friction with non spinning pulley.
Also wrong combination may cause the timing belt bounced up and down, swung/slid left and right when the engine speed is faster. It would risk the timing belt failure, worn out, shorten the belt life span etc. In the worst case scenario, the timing belt may come off. I believe it might also be one of the causes of mysterious worn oil pump gears and the drive gear shaft due to unnecessary vibration and side load at the oil pump sprocket by non straight timing belt movement.
Anyways this would affect much more and cause worse when the engine speed is faster like 7000~8000rpm than when rotating the crank by hand. Like Justin said, if the timing belt would fail while running, it may cost you so much money and time to repair. So just make sure that you are doing correctly with the right parts.

As for the tensioner, I thought you have an early 95 2g tensioner but I think the one in the pic is 1g 7 bolt but probably aftermarket, it has a different flange..
So if you have a 1g 7 bolt block, just get a 1g tensioner pulley. That's the only way to go.

If you are not sure how to do correctly, upload a pic of timing side. So we can point if we see something is not right..

Pic #1 (2g tensioner pulley / 1g tensioner pulley)

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Pic #2 (1g tensioner pulley on 1g tensioner arm)

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Pic #3 (2g tensioner pulley on 2g tensioner arm)

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Pic #4 (2g tensioner pulley on 1g tensioner arm)

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Pic #5 (1g tensioner pulley on 2g tensioner arm)

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Pic #6 (Offset difference between 2g tensioner pulley (Left) and 1g tensioner pulley (Right))

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Pic #7 (Offset difference between 1g tensioner arm (Top) and 2g tensioner arm (Bottom))

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Dude, thanks again for that write up, it helped a bunch and will refer to as necessary.. when did 1G and 2G trade places.. I know 3G started in 2000 cause i I have a GT.. from what I’m browsing through, seems like 95 was about the time.. anyway, nice info

 

[steve]

When did 1G and 2G trade places.. I know 3G started in 2000 cause i I have a GT.. from what I’m browsing through, seems like 95 was about the time.

1Ga 1989 - 1991
1Gb 1992 - 1994
2Ga 1995 - 1996
2Gb 1997 - 1999

DSM Make & Model Guide

 

[Bigbeanbird]

There are plenty of places were creativity comes in handy - Timing Belts and all the spinning components for timing is not one of them. You don't want to risk it. 4G63's are "interference" motors that require the piston and valves be timed correctly to prevent bent valves. If you spin the crank without the valve timing correct, it will kill the valves in one rotation.

This forum can help you identify and locate the correct parts. Double - and triple check - rotate by hand, and don't mess up your valves.

Justin, I hope the forum can help me with this one. As you can see in the thread I'm having trouble with timing belt. I pushed that ground down tensioner arm aside and ordered a 2G arm and tensioner pulley from STM and it came today. YAY!

Well hold on here, when I crawled under the car and put the arm on, it wouldn’t seat all the way on the pivot shaft. (see pics 4&5) The new pulley on the new arm looked all good as far as counterclockwise tension on the belt but am stumped. Why would the new arm not seat all the way?

I even took a motor mount bolt out to see if that may have been the problem, but alas, no luck. Just binding up and not seating right. The arm that was on the car fits fine (pics 1&2) any ideas?

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[DSMPT]

Justin, I hope the forum can help me with this one. As you can see in the thread I'm having trouble with timing belt. I pushed that ground down tensioner arm aside and ordered a 2G arm and tensioner pulley from STM and it came today. YAY!

Well hold on here, when I crawled under the car and put the arm on, it wouldn’t seat all the way on the pivot shaft. (see pics 4&5) The new pulley on the new arm looked all good as far as counterclockwise tension on the belt but am stumped. Why would the new arm not seat all the way?

I even took a motor mount bolt out to see if that may have been the problem, but alas, no luck. Just binding up and not seating right. The arm that was on the car fits fine (pics 1&2) any ideas?

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As for the tensioner, I thought you have an early 95 2g tensioner but I think the one in the pic is 1g 7 bolt but probably aftermarket, it has a different flange.
So if you have a 1g 7 bolt block, just get a 1g tensioner pulley. That's the only way to go.

You misunderstood. As I said in the early post that you have a 1g 7 bolt block, so all you need is a 1g tensioner pulley. The original issue was you were using a 2g pulley on a 1g arm.

You can't use a 2g arm on a 1g 7 bolt block without modifying the arm and water pump, otherwise it would interfere. Also you would need a 2g tensioner for 2g arm. The 1g 7 bolt tensioner wouldn't fit with the 2g arm.

 

[Bigbeanbird]

You misunderstood. As I said in the early post that you have a 1g 7 bolt block, so all you need is a 1g tensioner pulley. The original issue was you were using a 2g pulley on a 1g arm.

You can't use a 2g arm on a 1g 7 bolt block without modifying the arm and water pump, otherwise it would interfere. Also you would need a 2g tensioner for 2g arm. The 1g 7 bolt tensioner wouldn't fit with the 2g arm.

Herein lies my problem, I bought a 2G tensioner arm and a 2G tensioner pulley as well as belt but, why is it not fitting on the block? It’s a 97, has front and rear motor mounts on the tranny, not the block, so that makes it a 2G engine, correct? If it is, can I use a 1G pulley and arm on a 2G block? Thanks, confused at this point…….

 

[DSMPT]

Yeah I see you are confused, and yes it's kinda complicated.

why is it not fitting on the block?

Because the 2g arm is only for the 2g/EVO1-9 style 7 bolt block.So it won't fit on a 6 bolt and 1g 7 bolt block without modification.

so that makes it a 2G engine, correct??

No, it doesn't guarantee that you have a 2g engine. But yes, it tells that your "car" is 2g.

It’s a 97, has front and rear motor mounts on the tranny

Yes, that's why you can mount a 6 bolt or a 1g 7 bolt block in 2g.
Check or upload a pic of front side of your block. You would see the 1g engine mount bracket base like in the pic below where I circled green.

If it is, can I use a 1G pulley and arm on a 2G block??

Your "car" is 2g but you don't have the 2g block. Previously the block was replaced with a 1g 7 bolt. That's why you have the 1g arm, 1g 7 bolt tensioner, and the new 2g arm you just bought doesn't fit. This tells that your block is 1g 7 bolt.

What timing components you need would depend what block you have.
6 Bolt : 1g arm, 1g tensioner pulley, 6 bolt tensioner, 1g balance shaft tensioner pulley, 1g water pump, 6 bolt front case.
1g 7 bolt : 1g arm, 1g tensioner pulley, 1g 7 bolt tensioner, 1g balance shaft tensioner pulley, 1g water pump, 7 bolt front case.
2g 7 bolt : 2g arm, 2g tensioner pulley, 2g 7 bolt tensioner, 2g balance shaft tensioner pulley, 2g water pump, 7 bolt front case.

You never upload some pics of your block, so what I am talking is according to the parts in the pics you uploaded above.
If the 1g arm and the 1g 7 bolt tensioner in the pics in the original post were removed from your block, then just buy a 1g tensioner pulley.

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[Justin DuBois]

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- thats pretty

 

[Bigbeanbird]

- thats pretty

Yes it is.. I may be swayed to pull mine out and mount it on a stand if someone poked me in the belly..!!!

Yeah I see you are confused, and yes it's kinda complicated.


Because the 2g arm is only for the 2g/EVO1-9 style 7 bolt block.So it won't fit on a 6 bolt and 1g 7 bolt block without modification.


No, it doesn't guarantee that you have a 2g engine. But yes, it tells that your "car" is 2g.


Yes, that's why you can mount a 6 bolt or a 1g 7 bolt block in 2g.
Check or upload a pic of front side of your block. You would see the 1g engine mount bracket base like in the pic below where I circled green.


Your "car" is 2g but you don't have the 2g block. Previously the block was replaced with a 1g 7 bolt. That's why you have the 1g arm, 1g 7 bolt tensioner, and the new 2g arm you just bought doesn't fit. This tells that your block is 1g 7 bolt.

What timing components you need would depend what block you have.
6 Bolt : 1g arm, 1g tensioner pulley, 6 bolt tensioner, 1g balance shaft tensioner pulley, 1g water pump, 6 bolt front case.
1g 7 bolt : 1g arm, 1g tensioner pulley, 1g 7 bolt tensioner, 1g balance shaft tensioner pulley, 1g water pump, 7 bolt front case.
2g 7 bolt : 2g arm, 2g tensioner pulley, 2g 7 bolt tensioner, 2g balance shaft tensioner pulley, 2g water pump, 7 bolt front case.

You never upload some pics of your block, so what I am talking is according to the parts in the pics you uploaded above.
If the 1g arm and the 1g 7 bolt tensioner in the pics in the original post were removed from your block, then just buy a 1g tensioner pulley.

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Thank you soooo much.. it makes sense to me that the engine COULD have been changed, unbenounced to me.. I’m going to order a 1G pulley for the 1G arm that was originally on the block.. now, my question is, when I get to setting tension, the pulley would be rotated in the ‘clockwise’ direction for correct orientation?? It does make sense and thanks a ton.. winner winner winner..!!!!