The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Phil1320]

Well I picked up another 91 1GA TSI AWD. I've been driving it for about two weeks now back and forth to work. I'm still going thru random parts I have around my house, but it will be a 14b car with a bone stock motor. This is what I gaithered so far.

Mods

Hks evc boost Controller


Act 2600 clutch
Act flywheel
2.25 upper intercooler pipe
1.75 turbo outlet pipe w/ all hard lower pipe


255 hp fuel pump w/rewire
aeromotive FPR @ 65 psi Base Fuel Pressure
Stock 450cc 2g Injecters

Evo3 exhaust manifold
7cm exhaust housing
3inch O2 oliminator w/ 46mm tial external gate routed back inside
3inch v-band full exhaust system
3inch cat


Stock intake pipe w/ hacked air can and k/N filter


Boost guage
egt gauge
PLX wide band


Still debating on keeping the v3 from the race car in this car for the time being, but it has an afc in it aswell. I'm pretty excited as this car is pretty much ready to go to the track. So far Dsmlink says the injecters are maxed out 27.6 pound of air and 100% duty cycle on pump gas @15 psi. FPR was set @40 PSI through THAT TUNNING session. I've since bumped up Fuel pressure as quoted and duty cycle is in the low 80's will 10.8 to 1 airfuel w/ 1 count of knock through out the 1st gear to 4th gear pull. Timing is a little lower then stock, but I havn't checked base timing. I'm not really concerned as I don't have a hight knock count and crusing egt seem normal. On race gas i'll see what she likes. Hoping for high 12s on pump, and low 12s on 104 unleaded race gas. This is just something I got to hold me over untill spring and my race car is ready. Already took out rear interior and panels, both headlight motors, and rear and front bumper supports. My girlfrends says the power steering stays so she can drive it, but the AC is gone. As is, it's not fast but it "quick" and pulls hard for a 14b.

On a side note, Phil go for an Evo 16g and or a 20g/bolt on turbo. Most fun turbo, and it gives you the bang for the buck. I put a t3 manifold and a big turbo on my race car and the maint. kills you. It really sucks to break and blow up high dollar shit. I TUNED MY CAR, so I own the mistake. I'm not sure how much the motor is hurt as it still runs. It just smokes, but compression is ok. My leak down in bad, and I was told the rings are gone. I've been plauged with issues with built motors and stock bottum-ends always lasted from my experience. I just dont want a time bomb w/ a 6765 on it. So I will go for another built motor will 11.1 compression this time around. I'm still chasing a 10second pass. 11.20@ 136 is the fastest i've been without spray. That was on stock tires w/ a 1.9 60ft. GOOD LUCK, with whatever you decide.

Sounds awesome man so far! Definitely want to hear how you do at the track, so good luck tearin in up!

Thanks for the vote, however, I've thought about it and I definitely have to stay on the 14b for a bit longer.....I'm just too intrigued by what's left on that turbo. However, if for any reason, I can't get one good enough for rebuild(not sure the one I have is ok or not).....then I will jump to the newer 16g stuff and see what happens there.

 

[DRAGIN]

Great day though, eh Phil? Pleasant surprise to see you there

And as I said before, I'm actually excited that the turbo blew. All that means to me is that you have more power coming your way without changing anything, BUT a rebuild on the turbo. In general, turbo's don't go from full power, working to full efficiency to blowing out wheels in a run or two (unless of course you starve it of oil or something catastrophic happens which wasn't the case here). So that leads me to believe that you did not have full efficiency of that turbo when you did you 11.4 run!

So, therefore, if-so-fatso, haybius corpses, you will have more power when you put another turbo on there (and it will be a 14b. Remember I know where you live ).

Again, a fun day had by all.

MB

Bullett I just realized who you are. I'm Adam's uncle Scott. I met you a while back when I was trying to help you step son with his 2G spyder. How ya been? I guess PM me, don't wanna hijack Phil's post anymore then I already have. I'll tell ya bout my new DSM project.

Phil, good job and nice runs. Even when you shat turbo parts out the exhaust you still ripped it up. Well get you another tight 14B.

 

[Phil1320]

Congrats and great to hear you got out to the track phil! I've been super busy with work and haven't been on much lately. Get another 14b on there, preferably a freshened one and that 7cm housing and lay down some more good stuff for us! Then throw those cams in as I'm still curious about those!

Thanks buddy! I was super psyched that I was able to make it out once this year......didn't expect that. Even though things got ugly for a bitit was still a good outing and I had FUN.

Yes, I think most vote for me to stay on the 14b. Most definitely a fully rebuilt one. And, yes, I will go straight to the 7cm housing as well.

I'm as curious as you are about those cams, and there are some other interested parties as well. I'm hoping 2011 will allow me 3-4 strip visits like 2009. That's the goal, I'll have to sacrifice some other things to do it, but, this last visit actually has me pumped more than ever to get back to the track again. My enthusiasm is up, and that's a good thing. So then, onto 2011! And speaking of 2011, I'd like to see you in the low 12's early on, and then knocking on 11's door if not opening it by the end of the year

Again, as always, thanks for the support!

I guess I may be stating something obvious (please don't flame ) but do you believe one can even come close to those numbers (11s) by having a 14b on a full weight 2g AWD with all supporting mods (fuel, V3, SMIM, FP mani, full but catted 3" exhaust, FMIC, stock tranny, stock 7 bolt etc.)?

I believe my car weighed ~3200 lbs (full tank of gas) without me in it.

You know, I keep thinking 11s is definitely impossible as I type this...

Never say never, BUT, that's a tough task. Look at what it's taking me to run what I'm running.......my total weight is 2470 lbs. I make 295 AWHP, well did And I'm cutting 1.4 60's. Don't know what you weigh, but if you weigh 200, I'm almost 1000 lbs. lighter than you are

Never say never. Just go at it and see where you end up and good luck!

 

[TSimage]

Finally got some bugs worked out and drove the Galant around today to get a full tank of E85.. Good lord its SLOW!..

Paging Dave... Are you back from vacation yet? I got 14-16 gallons of E85 that need to be pissed away .

I had my wife follow behind me in the accord she said all she could think about when we got home was "breakfast" . Said it smelled like pancakes and asked a bunch of questions, it was cute. She says she want to run E85 now .

 

[jjrock5]

You can see Phil's car as well as mine and Bullet's car run in this Vid I made of last Friday.

YouTube - DSM Drag Day 10.8.10 Movie

 

[Phil1320]

Phil, good job and nice runs. Even when you shat turbo parts out the exhaust you still ripped it up. Well get you another tight 14B.

Thanks man, means alot, funnywhat you wrote above! The car has come a long way. Yeah, even on that last run it did rip. Honestly, the car felt great all day until that point. I think I'm more impressed with the 11.87@92 than the best run of the day, 11.62 Yeah, definitely need a solid 14b and a few back ups if I'm gonna stick with it. It's been a long time since we had DSM talk. Definitely missed it. We had such killer times in the past with all this. Glad to see you back in a Talon. Gonna be fun Hope you're up here on the regular....of course I can drive ten minutes and see you too....

You can see Phil's car as well as mine and Bullet's car run in this Vid I made of last Friday.

That's good coverage! Finally, a vid of an 11 second pass of mine! Thanks for posting this up!

Some pics of the teardown and carnage.....the turbo comes off the car for the first time! You guys can see my portwork finally(not mine as in I did it, Extreme did it years ago.) The last shot is looking into the S/S 02 housing at the mangled 02 sensor....

 

[JusMX141]

Excellent point Correct, just checked, my 14b has 01010 on the compressor cover.

The 14b that I have for replacement has 01030 on the comp. cover....so if you're dead on with your knowledge, then at least my replacement has a better design I suppose?

So, if this is exactly what happend, and it appears so as I said above, the threads look intact, I wonder when it started to back off?

When you tighten a right-hand threaded compressor locknut, you're turning it the same direction that the shaft spins. Of course this also means that as the boost pressure rises, the load placed on the compressor wheel is trying to spin it backwards, which effectively loosens the compressor locknut which is not Loctited from the factory.

Mitsubishi only did this for one year before the problem was addressed; although it IS possible for guys to swap compressor covers, so whatever you do make sure your next 14B has a left-hand threaded compressor nut so the excessive boost will not loosen the nut!

Just as I suspected, a 01010 cover with the larger 11mm hex right-hand threaded locknut.

 

[SBstar]

Now I'm eager to go check the numbers on my 14b as well! I appreciate the info!

 

[JusMX141]

Forgot to add, if you're looking for a good, freshly-rebuilt 14B CHRA-only to run in your turbine housing, I can probably set you up with something fairly reasonable. PM me for details.

 

[Phil1320]

When you tighten a right-hand threaded compressor locknut, you're turning it the same direction that the shaft spins. Of course this also means that as the boost pressure rises, the load placed on the compressor wheel is trying to spin it backwards, which effectively loosens the compressor locknut which is not Loctited from the factory.

Mitsubishi only did this for one year before the problem was addressed; although it IS possible for guys to swap compressor covers, so whatever you do make sure your next 14B has a left-hand threaded compressor nut so the excessive boost will not loosen the nut!


Just as I suspected, a 01010 cover with the larger 11mm hex right-hand threaded locknut.

I understand what you're saying, I never had any reason to check that damn bolt, and it's too bad I wasn't aware of this issue as the turbo itself probably had alot more life in it. Bummer. But, you live, you learn. So, thanks again for teaching me something I otherwise would have never known. I will make sure another right-hand thread center section never goes back on the car. I will check my 01030 turbo to see if it's left hand, but not sure I'd be able to tell, I suppose enough of the threads on the end of the shaft will show so I can.

 

[DJ23GSX]

Check! Ok, I will most likely perform this test and get you some results, BUT, in order for this to really work properly, I would need to get another 14b on there with my existing 6cm ported housing, make passes, then go back to make passes AFTER swapping to the 7cm....don't you think?

thoughts?

That right there sounds like a dam good reason to see you at the track more often next year

I feel your pain though. I am struggling myself to find the time to touch my dsm at all now a days. That was the main reason I sold my last one. Which I regretted the minute I handed over the keys

 

[Steve93Talon]

Farewell, little guy

 

[jjrock5]

Farewell, little guy

 

[Phil1320]

That right there sounds like a dam good reason to see you at the track more often next year

I feel your pain though. I am struggling myself to find the time to touch my dsm at all now a days. That was the main reason I sold my last one. Which I regretted the minute I handed over the keys

We will see. I have to see how much, if any more, damage there is overall. So, far, I need a turbo, factory 02 sensor, AEM 02 sensor......Gotta make sure the 2G MAF is ok....hopefully not too oil saturated......and I need to pull the I/C and pipes and make sure nothing happend to the throttle body etc. If there is too significant damage, I won't be out at all in 2011. As you've stated above, struggling to find the time is one, but now we add shelling out a decent amount of cash, something I can't do right now either, so, again the car will sit. However, I have quite a few people around me that are helping with some things, so it may not be so hard to do. Only time will tell......

My full exhaust after the manifold:

 

[supravw]

Well I can finally was able to make it to the track and give the 14b a good workout.

I've had a hell of a time getting my mirage to the track sense I swapped it to AWD. The first like 6 attempts went to sh!t from a variety of things such as clutch not holding, launch control problems, custom driveshaft bending in half, etc... So I checked it over today and changed the oil then headed up to the track. It's a 2 hour drive so I had to make sure it was worth it.

I got up there and made my first pass- 13.6 @104, 1.95 60' and had trouble getting into 2nd and 3rd. I hadn't enabled nlts so I did that and went for the second pass- 12.79 @ 107, 1.83 60', 8.24 @ 84.9 1/8. WOOT! FINALLY IN THE 12's.

I ran about 8-10 times total and my best passes where against a couple mustangs.

New personal best- 12.53 @ 108.5mph, 1.749 - 60', 5.185 - 330', 8.016 @ 86.5 - 1/8, 10.454 - 1000'
I backed it up with a 12.57 @ 107.9mph against a notchback on slicks.

I'm super psyched with what I ran especially sense I'm running a really simple setup.

NLTS is amazing btw!

 

[SBstar]

^ That makes me excited to hook up the NLTS finally! Good work and congrats on breaking into the 12's!

 

[Phil1320]

Well I can finally was able to make it to the track and give the 14b a good workout.

I've had a hell of a time getting my mirage to the track sense I swapped it to AWD. The first like 6 attempts went to sh!t from a variety of things such as clutch not holding, launch control problems, custom driveshaft bending in half, etc... So I checked it over today and changed the oil then headed up to the track. It's a 2 hour drive so I had to make sure it was worth it.

I got up there and made my first pass- 13.6 @104, 1.95 60' and had trouble getting into 2nd and 3rd. I hadn't enabled nlts so I did that and went for the second pass- 12.79 @ 107, 1.83 60', 8.24 @ 84.9 1/8. WOOT! FINALLY IN THE 12's.

I ran about 8-10 times total and my best passes where against a couple mustangs.

New personal best- 12.53 @ 108.5mph, 1.749 - 60', 5.185 - 330', 8.016 @ 86.5 - 1/8, 10.454 - 1000'
I backed it up with a 12.57 @ 107.9mph against a notchback on slicks.

I'm super psyched with what I ran especially sense I'm running a really simple setup.

NLTS is amazing btw!

Congrats! That's great! And....running faster is always sweeter when there's a Mustang in the rearview

^ That makes me excited to hook up the NLTS finally! Good work and congrats on breaking into the 12's!

The NLTS is pretty sick. Although, this last trip to the strip I think I was lifting on the 1-2 for some reason......

......thinking about it all, and after watching the vids, I'm spinning the slicks pretty good and chirping them when I hit second.......now I remember that I never got tire pressure down to 10 psi. I started at 12 and then hot lapped more or less so they were at 14 or so for some passes. So, I'd guess there's a bit more left in the launch. I'm gonna come out lighter next year, the lightest yet, and get the tire pressures down to 10 or so and maybe do a warm up launch before the run, which I did do last October, but, not doing it this time, I still matched my best 60's times. I think I can pull a high 1.3 or flat 1.40. That should be good for something in ET I hope. Since the turbo is gone, it's kinda opened up some doors for me that I wasn't willing to open without some type of failure.

Finally got some bugs worked out and drove the Galant around today to get a full tank of E85.. Good lord its SLOW!..

Paging Dave... Are you back from vacation yet? I got 14-16 gallons of E85 that need to be pissed away .

I had my wife follow behind me in the accord she said all she could think about when we got home was "breakfast" . Said it smelled like pancakes and asked a bunch of questions, it was cute. She says she want to run E85 now .

Cool that you got to take it out for a drive.....funny post man.......so, any new developments? Chances of running it anytime soon?

 

[supravw]

^ That makes me excited to hook up the NLTS finally! Good work and congrats on breaking into the 12's!

It will cut your time down a good bit. I was amazed at how quick and smooth I could shift. Easily one of my favorite mods and it only takes 2 wires to hook up.

I'm not sure how much faster I'll be able to go on the 14b, I don't have much more I can do realisticly. I can work on the launch a little more but I don't have the money for slicks. My airflow is right around 30-31lb/min @ 20psi so I don't see flowing much more on stock head/intake mani/cams. I was only able to run 15* of timing up top and was still having 1 degree pulled. My AFR is still a little rich (10.4:1 is what I'm shooting for in DA) but I'm only going off of o2 readings and knock so I don't want to mess with that much.

 

[jjrock5]

No worries of grinding gears/or over-reving in between shifts with the gas pedal to the floor?

I mean, I know the theory but it seems so beautiful to be true.

 

[SBstar]

You set an rpm limit in between shifts which keeps it from overreving. As for griding gears you want a good trans and clutch to handle it.

 

[TSimage]

Congrats! That's great! And....running faster is always sweeter when there's a Mustang in the rearview



The NLTS is pretty sick. Although, this last trip to the strip I think I was lifting on the 1-2 for some reason......

......thinking about it all, and after watching the vids, I'm spinning the slicks pretty good and chirping them when I hit second.......now I remember that I never got tire pressure down to 10 psi. I started at 12 and then hot lapped more or less so they were at 14 or so for some passes. So, I'd guess there's a bit more left in the launch. I'm gonna come out lighter next year, the lightest yet, and get the tire pressures down to 10 or so and maybe do a warm up launch before the run, which I did do last October, but, not doing it this time, I still matched my best 60's times. I think I can pull a high 1.3 or flat 1.40. That should be good for something in ET I hope. Since the turbo is gone, it's kinda opened up some doors for me that I wasn't willing to open without some type of failure.



Cool that you got to take it out for a drive.....funny post man.......so, any new developments? Chances of running it anytime soon?

Just waiting on Dave at this point. I wish I had the time to play with this Jackal program to learn it but I work long hrs, the time I get to tinker is minimal currently so at this pace the car wont see the track and most likely if the car doesn't see the track before the end of the year I'm positive it wont hold my interest through the winter to not get put up FS !

Its a fortunate thing to even have access to Dave personally at all and I definitely think that at the end of the day his involvement is the true defining element of the build. I would have just skipped the 14b and gone bigger but Nate decided he'd set the bar, thankfully he didn't set it too high.

I'll be moving to the 16g by next season most likely to take some shots at the Galant 16g numbers as well. At some point though the Talon will need more attention. Its getting a rebuild with higher compression pistons for E98 so I hope all goes well.

 

[Phil1320]

Just waiting on Dave at this point. I wish I had the time to play with this Jackal program to learn it but I work long hrs, the time I get to tinker is minimal currently so at this pace the car wont see the track and most likely if the car doesn't see the track before the end of the year I'm positive it wont hold my interest through the winter to not get put up FS !

Its a fortunate thing to even have access to Dave personally at all and I definitely think that at the end of the day his involvement is the true defining element of the build. I would have just skipped the 14b and gone bigger but Nate decided he'd set the bar, thankfully he didn't set it too high.

I'll be moving to the 16g by next season most likely to take some shots at the Galant 16g numbers as well. At some point though the Talon will need more attention. Its getting a rebuild with higher compression pistons for E98 so I hope all goes well.

I hear you there. I haven't seen him up here recently. Well, hopefully you get some passes on the 14b anyway. No he didn't set it too high...but tapping into the 11's in a stock turbo VR4 won't be easy......

 

[YZFR1]

Really sorry to hear about your 14b Phil!! However, destruction leads to a new build

I vote 14b with 7cm turbine housing, then 16g.


I want to see real-world gains by swapping out the stock housing.

For what it's worth i just drove my car for the first time since changing to 7cm and getting all the porting done.

I ran it on the same calibration i had before i did the work to the car and also ran it on the same road as i did the last time. I'm using virtual dyno maths..
Last pull w/6cm housing:199HP
219TQ
Today w/7cm housing: 228HP
246TQ

However, it did seem to run a lot leaner. Now, i got to fix the rest of air and oil leaks

 

[Gooberlog]

Oh no, did you blow your 14b up Phil? Is everyone trying to pull some strings to find a good one for ya to break some more records? I'm outa the loop already!

 

[TSimage]

Drove the Galant around some more and wow does this E3 and stainless 02 make a difference! The housing is ported as well but I'm not sure how much it benefited the setup.. I have a spare E3 manifold and e3 O2 housing I was going to hold onto but if any of you guys are looking for one or some 720Densos lemme know. We all gotta show the world what these turbos can do.