The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[Nate Crisman]

Ack...snapped shaft 14b sounds oddly familiar! Mine stayed in the turbine housing though. Seems were in the same boat now too: looking for a good 14b cartridge that we all know will likely last all of 10 passes before kicking the bucket.

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I'm very very interested to see how this turns out with the automatic 14b combo. I'v been wondering the whole time if a 14b will be able to squeeze out enough power to overcome the vehicle weight and power-transfer-inefficiency of the auto-AWD.

 

[Hubbell91Tsi]

why can i daily drive at 27psi and have no problems.

 

[SBstar]

I hope their comes a point where I think an 11.7 is a "failure" for my first outing on a different setup haha! Proves that with the right combination of parts and experience driving you can pull out some very impressive times, good luck getting a fresher 14b on there and a "good" launch.

 

[99gst_racer]

Anybody try the T3 td05 housing on a 14b to see if you can squeeze anything else out of it?

 

[pneumo]

Anybody try the T3 td05 housing on a 14b to see if you can squeeze anything else out of it?

I didn't know about this, got any more info?

 

[Phil1320]

why can i daily drive at 27psi and have no problems.

I'd guess because daily driving isn't wide open throttle pulls everywhere you go, or is it? Keep on and pair that with some 1/4 mile passes(HINT,HINT)and I'd guess your 14 will die too at those boost levels.

I've never run anywhere near that type of boost. I was out near 23 once a long time ago with no gain at all, in fact the car was slower than at 20. I currently run "only" 21 psi. But maybe I'll crank it up some time now that I've got a front mount and see if I can gain any power, but, maybe not. I've always had a super reliable set up, that's how I have so many passes on the car without issues. Cranking the boost and gaining a couple tenths, if that, then blowing the turbo isn't a trade off that's worth it for me. If I knew it would put me in the 10's, well, that might be worth it. I'm sure too much longer even the way I run it and the turbo might go--20 years old, all original, and never been off the car....but, knock on wood, I've never had any issues.

I hope their comes a point where I think an 11.7 is a "failure" for my first outing on a different setup haha! Proves that with the right combination of parts and experience driving you can pull out some very impressive times, good luck getting a fresher 14b on there and a "good" launch.

Yeah, I had a similar thought.....11.7 on the first outing. Granted, I started with my talon as a daily driver car, but it took me 12+ years to do that!!!

 

[99gst_racer]

I didn't know about this, got any more info?

It's the same housing that Hahn racecraft used on their T3 16G and 20G turbos. I'm really surprised this thing isn't more popular. It's a 10.5cm housing so it will probably spool 400-500 RPM slower, but hopefully provide for a more powerful topend. I've never personally used one before. I scored this housing from Justin to use for my next compound build (if I stick with the TD05 wheel), and I'm considering using one on my 14B too.

Pics of it on my 14B:

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[jjrock5]

Is this housing still available? I'd be interested.

 

[99gst_racer]

Is this housing still available? I'd be interested.

They're still around, but I don't know where to get a new one. PM Jusmx141. I'm sure he'd be more than happy to sell you one.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I didn't know about this, got any more info?

Hahn Super 20G.


Stay away; they're not worth the T3 flange on the turbine housing unless you're making 25+psi, at which point a smaller Mitsu bolt-on housing would yeild more flow with a larger turbine than this housing and the TD05H turbine.

The Hahn 20G's were intended for use on engines with higher compression or larger displacement than our engines, hence the larger turbine housing. This turbo would be laggier with no additional flow benefit below 25psi in comparison to a traditional TD05H 20G in a DSM bolt-on turbine housing.

Never used one personally but I've looked into them before.

 

[99gst_racer]

That's an interesting bit of information. I wonder what there is to be had with the T3/td05 combo after 25 psi? I have every intention in trying to force that much boost through my 14b across the RPM band. I just don't want to switch to T3 and gain nothing from it.

 

[Ppayer38]

Car:
1998 Eclipse GSX
80,000 miles
Minor weight reduction(Spare Tire, Windshield washer system, Etc, You know the stuff not needed)
180-182 compression
Mods:
14b(Any suggestions for Boost?)
EvoIII Exhaust Manifold
Emissions Delete
MSD Plug Wires
NGK Plugs
PR 3" DP
3" Catless Thermal R&D Catback
Evo IX FP
Evo IX Injectors
SSAC FMIC
Intake with KN filter
Greddy RS BOV(Recirc)
Hallman Pro MBC(not sure what I can get away with as far as Boost Level)
SAFC 2
EvoScan
AEM UEGO Wideband
Autometer 30/30 Boost
Autometer 0-100 Oil PSI
Sorry if I missed anything but that should cover most of everything as far as need to know

This car is going to be a full budget build since all ive got invest rite now is $3000. I am trying to make mid 12s for the best price possible and keep it completely Daily Driven.....

If you can think of anything I may need to get where I wanna be please fill me in... I am in the process of figuring out how to Tune with SAFC 2 and will be asking lots of questions and keeping everything updated!

 

[Phil1320]

It's the same housing that Hahn racecraft used on their T3 16G and 20G turbos. I'm really surprised this thing isn't more popular. It's a 10.5cm housing so it will probably spool 400-500 RPM slower, but hopefully provide for a more powerful topend. I've never personally used one before. I scored this housing from Justin to use for my next compound build (if I stick with the TD05 wheel), and I'm considering using one on my 14B too.

It would be interesting to see if it was worth anything.....looks super heavy though, and a manifold(unless tubular)would most likely be heavier too...so the gains would have to be pretty good over the standard Mitsu stuff IMHO.

 

[99gst_racer]

It would be interesting to see if it was worth anything.....looks super heavy though, and a manifold(unless tubular)would most likely be heavier too...so the gains would have to be pretty good over the standard Mitsu stuff IMHO.

I agree. My car is extremely weight concious, so I would need to know for sure if the benefits of this housing would outweight any drawbacks. I'll more than likely stick with the 7cm housing and the FP manifold though.

 

[Steve93Talon]

You can still get the BEP bolt-on housing for the TD05H wheel, has anyone considered trying one of those on a 14b? Alot less work than the T3 stuff, and it's a more modern teardrop shaped volute, unlike the T3 mitsu 10cm.

On another note, my EVO3 intake mani arrived today. I should have all the pieces I need to start putting this POS together now.

 

[TSimage]

Well, I got the turbo and everything back in the car tonight. Pretty much the only thing left to do is charge the battery (or get another one) Plug everything back up and start the Galant up tomorrow!

w00T!

Dave, you ready to tune?

Now that I think about it. I'll doing the fuel lines early tomorrow. After that I should be good to go.

 

[Phil1320]

I agree. My car is extremely weight concious, so I would need to know for sure if the benefits of this housing would outweight any drawbacks. I'll more than likely stick with the 7cm housing and the FP manifold though.

I remember physically picking up the first HKS T3 mani for the DSM's. Extreme got the first one.....really nice, but really heavy. When you can combat that weight with serious power, it's one thing, but with the 14b, it's tough. After reading that quote above, its seems the Mitsu stuff works best. I run the FP Race Mani as well and it is a killer piece, but, yes, being cast is not as light as say a DNP tubular. With that, I don't think the DNP would work better either. I have yet to pair it with the 7cm housing but am looking forward to reaping the benefits that everyone says they are worth.

On another weight comparison note: I don't have hard numbers yet, but....I remember someone suggesting the Cyclone intake mani, valid suggestion. Ever pick one up next to a stock intake? Based on the added weight alone I wouldn't consider it in a drag racing situation. It must weigh 3 times as much as a stocker with all the extra flanges and then the butterflies etc. So, that got marked off my list.

I think everyone is trying to think outside the box with this and that's obviously where this road has taken us. But, I still revert to three things that can get the job done with the 14b:

1. A solid engine with the "usual" supporting mods that runs well, has good compression, etc.....

2. The more weight out the better

3. The more seat time the better

I think some of the more elaborate set ups that have been proposed, or that are in motion already, have kept guys from hitting the track with a basic set up that might have already put them in the 11's on the 14b.

I didn't think it would be just about August and still noone had made an 11 second pass.....until Lucas, and I didn't expect it to be him, but it kinda fits his car's basis for sure.

I wish I could contribute something this year, and the year is not over, but the chances are that I won't make passes til 2011.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Nice vid, car sounds very nice....I say, leave it full weight for now, dial in the driving and then add that extra pound of boost or so. Add some front control arm poly bushings and that should help as well.

Just a little update, I replaced the front control arm bushings, rear track arm bushings, and the front ball joints. I will see if I can knock a little off my 60' and sneak into the 13's. I've also replaced my throttle body shaft seals which were the source of a rather significant boost leak. I should be at the local track next Sunday, August 8th.

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Energy Suspension control arm bushings.

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The old bushings, boot, and ball joints.

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I made a few other minor changes since my 14.3 pass. Buschur Racing heat shield, eliminated cruise control, low mounted the battery, and replaced the leaking throttle body shaft seals.

 

[Nate Crisman]

I think some of the more elaborate set ups that have been proposed, or that are in motion already, have kept guys from hitting the track with a basic set up that might have already put them in the 11's on the 14b.

I didn't think it would be just about August and still noone had made an 11 second pass.....until Lucas, and I didn't expect it to be him, but it kinda fits his car's basis for sure.

I wish I could contribute something this year, and the year is not over, but the chances are that I won't make passes til 2011.

Dude, I totally hear you! My setup progress went awry not so much in the building of my 14b-talon, but in my GVR4 eating it's T3T4, then blowing up my only 14b, then finding a bad rod bearing (that likely caused the two turbo failures). I ended up spending most of my free time in the spring and early summer working on the GVR4 instead of assembling the Talon. (GVR4 went 11.82 @ 116 on a small 16g and a different stock motor and street tires last friday)

BUT, I'v been kicking it's ass this last 2 weeks and is about 75% done. Im expecting to make passes for the first time on Aug 13th. Pretty much done with all the fabrication work, it's now mostly wiring and basic assembly. The unfortunate part is I don't currently have a 14b handy since I was forced to expend it on my GVR4. So, Im going to be sporting an E3 16g for a while, but once I have the car tuned in and working well, Ill find a 14 and see what I can do on that front.

I have the entire intercooler system finished. The ic pipes are all done with bov, nitrous, ait bungs. Drivetrain/suspension/brakes are completely together. The fuel system is laid out, Im just waiting on a bracket to mount the pump and a -8 fitting for the line between the cell and pump.

Here's a iphone pic from a few nights ago: (stuff is just kinda laying around)

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[Phil1320]

Just a little update, I replaced the front control arm bushings, rear track arm bushings, and the front ball joints. I will see if I can knock a little off my 60' and sneak into the 13's. I've also replaced my throttle body shaft seals which were the source of a rather significant boost leak. I should be at the local track next Sunday, August 8th.

I made a few other minor changes since my 14.3 pass. Buschur Racing heat shield, eliminated cruise control, low mounted the battery, and replaced the leaking throttle body shaft seals.

Nice! I remember when I finally had ALL the bushings done in the Talon. What a difference. Now you'll be able to dial in the car, and your driving so much easier. Car looks really good, clean underhood presentation. I like the gray as well. Good luck at the track, I'm sure you'll bang out some 13's

Dude, I totally hear you! My setup progress went awry not so much in the building of my 14b-talon, but in my GVR4 eating it's T3T4, then blowing up my only 14b, then finding a bad rod bearing (that likely caused the two turbo failures). I ended up spending most of my free time in the spring and early summer working on the GVR4 instead of assembling the Talon. (GVR4 went 11.82 @ 116 on a small 16g and a different stock motor and street tires last friday)

BUT, I'v been kicking it's ass this last 2 weeks and is about 75% done. Im expecting to make passes for the first time on Aug 13th. Pretty much done with all the fabrication work, it's now mostly wiring and basic assembly. The unfortunate part is I don't currently have a 14b handy since I was forced to expend it on my GVR4. So, Im going to be sporting an E3 16g for a while, but once I have the car tuned in and working well, Ill find a 14 and see what I can do on that front.

I have the entire intercooler system finished. The ic pipes are all done with bov, nitrous, ait bungs. Drivetrain/suspension/brakes are completely together. The fuel system is laid out, Im just waiting on a bracket to mount the pump and a -8 fitting for the line between the cell and pump.

Hey, I know these things take time, and things take time from it(working on our toys) most of the time!

That's an impressive number to say the least on the small 16g in the VR4! Nice trap speed too.

The set up looks killer Nate! Keep on it and I'll be interested to hear about your first outing on the 13th. There's got to be a bolt on 14b somewhere out there?! Or are they becoming totally hard to locate? Although, you if anyone, should be able to locate one

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Here's a iphone pic from a few nights ago: (stuff is just kinda laying around)

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I like how you have the entire fuel system up front. That would be awesome for a FWD setup. Looks great!

Nice! I remember when I finally had ALL the bushings done in the Talon. What a difference. Now you'll be able to dial in the car, and your driving so much easier. Car looks really good, clean underhood presentation. I like the gray as well. Good luck at the track, I'm sure you'll bang out some 13's



Hey, I know these things take time, and things take time from it(working on our toys) most of the time!

That's an impressive number to say the least on the small 16g in the VR4! Nice trap speed too.

The set up looks killer Nate! Keep on it and I'll be interested to hear about your first outing on the 13th. There's got to be a bolt on 14b somewhere out there?! Or are they becoming totally hard to locate? Although, you if anyone, should be able to locate one

Thanks so much Phil! As far as 14bs go, I bought the one I'm using for $100 shipped off the classifieds on here. There were plenty to choose from when I was looking a couple of months ago in that same price range.

 

[Nate Crisman]

That's an impressive number to say the least on the small 16g in the VR4! Nice trap speed too.

The set up looks killer Nate! Keep on it and I'll be interested to hear about your first outing on the 13th. There's got to be a bolt on 14b somewhere out there?! Or are they becoming totally hard to locate? Although, you if anyone, should be able to locate one

I actually have a couple 14b's that I could buy off friends/aquaintences. But I'm somewhat leary of starting off on the 14b simply because I assume it's going to take me 2 or 3 track days till I have the suspension, tuning, setup figured out. I'd hate to blow up yet another 14b during the process of sorting out a freshly built car. Not to mention I haven't really done the majority of the weight loss work I had intended to (Im now in Rush-Job-Mode to simply assemble the car). As you said, seat time is worth more than the car sitting on the lift waiting for more work to be done. I'd rather be running a slower car this year than still building the car in the fall.

So...with the car a good 100lb heavier than I originally intended, without the injectors to support methanol, and without sufficient testing/tuning time this season; Im not at all confident that I can wrench that 10.86 record ET from Proj Goodwill this year. And frankly, if I'm not likely to take the overall 14b record just yet, then there is little sense in blowing up an increasingly rare good 14b just yet. I'd rather get the car sorted out on the 16g and when it's sorted out good, as light as can be, running meth, and is launching hard...just swap the turbo cartridge for a 14b...alter the DSMlink tune just a tick, and give it hell. BUT that might not be till the very end of the season or even next spring.

 

[TSimage]

I started a blog on the Galant. Dr. JACKAL and Mr. Hyde project. if you guys get board browsing I'll be updating it regularly every few days to catch up to where I am today which is basically doing the fuel to get it started this weekend although I am no hurry to turn the key.

 

[SBstar]

Both projects looking good.

Nate you don't know anybody with a 14b for around 50 bucks or so? I've got one I've been meaning to pick up, thanks for reminding me haha! I don't want to wait another year to hear about more good 14b times. Look forward to seeing you at the shootout though right?

 

[Nate Crisman]

Both projects looking good.

Nate you don't know anybody with a 14b for around 50 bucks or so? I've got one I've been meaning to pick up, thanks for reminding me haha! I don't want to wait another year to hear about more good 14b times. Look forward to seeing you at the shootout though right?

Unfortunately no, Im not going to Ohio for the shootout. 900 miles @ 10mpg = $250 in gas. $100+ hotel and food. I just don't have the cash to spend on the trip (wife and I put a bid on a house couple weeks ago and need to scrape every penny together for closing costs in September).

I was planning to come race if I had a competative car, but I'll be lucky if the car is even running on the friday before the race to make a first pass. Remember, I can't drive it on the street so I have to test everything at the track. I'm not about to trailer the car all the way to ohio and find out the trans doesn't shift, I have a wiring issue, or something stupid prevents it from racing. Not to mention it's chances of running fast on the first day are slim to none. Even if I had a month to sort out, I don't believe I could even match Lucas English's car.

AND we are leaving for our previously scheduled family vacation on wednesday morning (road trip to Florida to take the kids to disney world) and I'll have 752 things to do on monday/tuesday before leaving. I really can't spend that monday driving 450miles home from Ohio while my wife does all the prep and packing for vacation, that's not fair to her.