The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[1qkfwd]

The unstable reading is going to be a function of line diameter/length as much or more than where its sourced, at least from what I have seen.

I got my dampener from Tony @ T1R:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

When I was running from the EGR ports, I had both my MAPs (One for Drive, one for Boost) threaded into a block off plate and then mounted on the firewall.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This was after I finished tapping the plate for the MAP on the Boost side of the EGR (to intake manifold) which is cold enough to use regular vacuum tubing.

For some reason ISSPro, where I got my drive-pressure gauge and sensor so all my gauges are uniform and use the ISSPro brainbox I already have everything daisy chained too, want me to mount the sensor vertically. Wasn't able to get a straight answer on why though.

I'll look into that dampener if I have issues. I just remembered I can't use my egr port anyways because I drilled and tapped the port at the head. From using anti lag on my 40r the heat was eating away the gasket.

 

[Phil1320]

(Comes back into the thread and looks around for boneheads. Doesn't see any at the moment, so he posts )

Phil, been too long and not enough time to catch up on crap. But great to stop over and bullshit (insert all the appropriate family/house fanfare here).

More importantly, I believe whole heartedly that the changes we spoke about will net you at least tenths (yeah that's right I said tenths ). You can worry about coloring outside the lines after these are implemented

MB

It has been way too long....you gotta come back out soon!

Tenths! About how many? You wanna speculate?

 

[Bud92gsx]

I have one on the shelf already prepped for 02 wastegate, however, seeing that I haven't tried my 7cm yet, I guess it'll sit a while longer

I have a ported 7cm on my 14b..Not gonna go 8 or bigger.

Although the internal WG is gonna hurt me.So are my injectors..But its a start.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Although the internal WG is gonna hurt me.]

I'd disagree there. On a max effort 14b, you're essentially hitting choke flow on the compressor at around 4k, regardless of whether you're internal or external, MBC or EBC. The only thing that's gonna change is spool up and the "spike" down low. If anything, an external will control the spike and actually lose power from 3-4k IMO. If your boost curve/airflow is where you want it, how you get there is pretty much irrelevant.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Very nicce explanation.+2

So the external may hurt, being as the turbo is a 14b..Ok makes total sense..

 

[1SloEvo]

From what I've read and heard from a few people running the o2 mounted wastegate, it helps the little 14b hold a little more boost up top. On a drag car, who cares about the 3-4k rpm range? I sure don't. This thing won't be that low of rpm except returning to the pits. Even on the street, on a turbo that spools just north of 3k rpm, why do you really need a spike anyway. You'll have plenty of torque on the low end anyway.

 

[Bud92gsx]

I'm a stickler for a smaller turbo and lower spool..

I like the 14b cause its almost insta spool..Even coupled with a 7cm turbine housing I'm seeing the WG open closer to 3k..So from 3k to when the 14b falls off.

 

[bullettdsm]

It has been way too long....you gotta come back out soon!

Agreed

Tenths! About how many? You wanna speculate?

I'll speculate as soon as you are ready to race

MB

 

[Phil1320]

From what I've read and heard from a few people running the o2 mounted wastegate, it helps the little 14b hold a little more boost up top. On a drag car, who cares about the 3-4k rpm range? I sure don't. This thing won't be that low of rpm except returning to the pits. Even on the street, on a turbo that spools just north of 3k rpm, why do you really need a spike anyway. You'll have plenty of torque on the low end anyway.

interesting...

Agreed



I'll speculate as soon as you are ready to race

MB

Damnit.......ok

 

[1qkfwd]

Was going to post this under my build thread but I think its better posted here to have a little fun. I got to thinking about what the differences are between running an awd trans with 26" slicks vs running a fwd trans with the 24.5" slicks.

If you input the 2G fwd trans ratios and 24.5" You'll see the difference in the rpms at the same mph.

http://www.f-body.org/gears/
Tranny gear ratios for DSMs

So.........
Tire 24.5"
Final 4.15
First 3.09
second 1.83
Third 1.22
Fourth 0.89

VS

Tire 26"
Final 4.93
First 3.08
Second 1.68
Third 1.12
Fourth 0.83

Then if you wanted to throw in the same awd trans and compare the 24.5 against the 26" slick you could do that do.

So there that is for the day have some fun with it.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Are those ratios accurate? A 26" tire (235/60-15) on a 1G FWD MT can do 200mph in 4th @ 9500rpm?

That's good news, provided it stays together.. 5th will do it at only 7900rpm according to that. Crazy.

Looks like I may have some headroom even at altitude with a bad DA if my peak power shifts to the left and falls off earlier than expected.

Good stuff, thank you.

 

[1qkfwd]

Are those ratios accurate? A 26" tire (235/60-15) on a 1G FWD MT can do 200mph in 4th @ 9500rpm?

That's good news, provided it stays together.. 5th will do it at only 7900rpm according to that. Crazy.

Looks like I may have some headroom even at altitude with a bad DA if my peak power shifts to the left and falls off earlier than expected.

Good stuff, thank you.

Ya the fwd trans are not very strong. The gears just dont have the renforcement that the awd trans do. But if you can hold it together and make the power to get up to those speeds I looks like it would work.

To me it looks like I would need way more power and down low power to be able to push the fwd trans past what Joe Bs car did.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

The 4.9 diff and the taller tire are probably a good match for this effort. The faster you can get a FWD through the first 1/8th is better obviously. How much of a section width do you think you can get on the pavement with a 26" tire and the rims you plan to run.

I remember Kiggly posting about taking full tenth(s) of his 60 going to a 15x10 from a 15x8 on the same tire.

As far as the weak FWD gears.. definitely an issue but I think there are a few ways to deal with that.

1.) Bring a ton of transmissions
2.) Have some straight cut 4th and 5ths made
3.) Modify trans case, add a cooler and pump to dump gear oil back over those gears
4.) Keep torque down, shift soft and wind out higher through lower gears to keep time spent in 4th and/or 5th shorter

Or a combination of the above.

As my math suggests, and at least two cars have confirmed.. the 1G body only needs ~530whp to go 200mph.

And 530whp @ 7900rpm only requires 350wtq, and 530whp @ 9500 takes only 295wtq.

Sorry for the minor threadjack, just thinking out loud haha

 

[SBstar]

Fun stuff, think I'll stick with the awd and awd trans haha!

Good stuff though, it's great to look at all these aspects and be able to make an informed decision on what could be best.

 

[1qkfwd]

Fun stuff, think I'll stick with the awd and awd trans haha!

Good stuff though, it's great to look at all these aspects and be able to make an informed decision on what could be best.

Kinda sucks tho because thats all your stuck with. Your only option is slick size. I do have one other option for gear ratio that may or may not help me. I picked it up two years ago and been sitting on it since.

Goes like this.
Final 5.21
First 2.85
Second 1.68
Third 1.12
Fourth 0.83

It does need a full rebuild but ill wait until I decide what im going to do with it.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Kinda sucks tho because thats all your stuck with. Your only option is slick size.

AWD can always do EVO 3 gears or a dog box

 

[1qkfwd]

AWD can always do EVO 3 gears or a dog box

Yes but not many final drive options like the fwd can do.

Like my car for example, I'll have a higher mph per a givin rpm. So at 7000 in third im going 101mph and with the awd combo id be going 98mph. Downfall is the fwd trans its going to take me longer to get to that 7000 rpms.

Now the real question is how do you use all this data and direct it towards a better ET at the track? I know the V8 guys have it all figured out based on the power they make and the Rpm range to make that power. Then they figure out what rear set to go with and slick size.

 

[Phil1320]

Fun stuff, think I'll stick with the awd and awd trans haha!

Good stuff though, it's great to look at all these aspects and be able to make an informed decision on what could be best.

Yeah this ^^^^

 

[1qkfwd]

So I looked over a few of my logs and my mph/speed is only 1 mph off of what the gear ratio calculator says. So in 4th gear at 5201rpm my speed was 101.9. The calculator says its suppose to be 103mph. So that 1.1 mph off. Its that close in the other gears to.

 

[YZFR1]

Had the day off today from school. Drove the car to the store and back, then decided to change my alternator for a brand new 90amp unit. In the process accidentally noticed that two of my turbo bolts were not tightened, so i tightened them up of course. Took the car for a small test drive and BAM give me a little surprise

It was supposed to be pushing only 18psi, next thing i know it's doing 22psi at 3600 rpm in 3rd gear. Got to be more carefull next time..

Love that little turbo!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuWf0yYkPfk][email protected] - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Phil1320]

So I looked over a few of my logs and my mph/speed is only 1 mph off of what the gear ratio calculator says. So in 4th gear at 5201rpm my speed was 101.9. The calculator says its suppose to be 103mph. So that 1.1 mph off. Its that close in the other gears to.

wow, a calculator that actually works,

Pretty cool....

Had the day off today from school. Drove the car to the store and back, then decided to change my alternator for a brand new 90amp unit. In the process accidentally noticed that two of my turbo bolts were not tightened, so i tightened them up of course. Took the car for a small test drive and BAM give me a little surprise

It was supposed to be pushing only 18psi, next thing i know it's doing 22psi at 3600 rpm in 3rd gear. Got to be more carefull next time..

Love that little turbo!
[email protected] - YouTube

Nice.....

 

[1qkfwd]

Ya very surprising.

 

[YZFR1]

wow, a calculator that actually works,

Pretty cool....



Nice.....

Thanks man, i guess i'm finally starting to run out of injector. Those 550's with an oem FPR have been real troopers for me. On that last pass they were running at +99% duty cycle on corn juice. The only options i have right now are, installing some FIC 1050's with an aeromotive FPR i have kicking around, or running those same 550's with an oem FPR while using a secondary form of fueling instead. I really like having high impendance 550's for daily driving though, if i can get away with it..

 

[Phil1320]

Thanks man, i guess i'm finally starting to run out of injector. Those 550's with an oem FPR have been real troopers for me. On that last pass they were running at +99% duty cycle on corn juice. The only options i have right now are, installing some FIC 1050's with an aeromotive FPR i have kicking around, or running those same 550's with an oem FPR while using a secondary form of fueling instead. I really like having high impendance 550's for daily driving though, if i can get away with it..

Wow. I know the corn is different in that area. I ran 550cc for the last 10 years but with an Aeromotive FPR and VP C16. I'd say it's time for an adjustable FPR at a minimum.

 

[Steve93Talon]

Could always try an auto FPR, it's about 5psi higher than a 5spd. 550s in ethanol ain't gonna get you very far, that's for sure!