The 14b Drag Race Discussion Thread

[pneumo]

all this talk of 14b's over 20psi really has me contemplating making one final stab at a 13 second pass with my fwd. just pull the wastegate line and attempt to just roll out of the lights. my car stands at a 14.1 its been a spin monster and is in need of slicks. Just maybe doin this will give me the top end and mid track pull to get the job done. Ofcourse i'll do this after the awd is up and going because with my luck it will be the last time the fwd runs.

Out of curiousity has anyone ever tried spring rubbers for the suspension to help with weight transfer and launching and 60ft times? wether it be fwd or awd? its a cheap quick way to stiffen things up and make the cars sit a bit taller in the rear for fwd guys.

I tried the rubber spring inserts in my FWD. It didn't seem to make any difference. I used two per side.

 

[91-gsx]

all this talk of 14b's over 20psi really has me contemplating making one final stab at a 13 second pass with my fwd. just pull the wastegate line and attempt to just roll out of the lights. my car stands at a 14.1 its been a spin monster and is in need of slicks. Just maybe doin this will give me the top end and mid track pull to get the job done. Ofcourse i'll do this after the awd is up and going because with my luck it will be the last time the fwd runs.

Out of curiousity has anyone ever tried spring rubbers for the suspension to help with weight transfer and launching and 60ft times? wether it be fwd or awd? its a cheap quick way to stiffen things up and make the cars sit a bit taller in the rear for fwd guys.

Find a way to stage your boost level and you will hit 13's now. For example; Wasegate pressure for 1st and 2nd gear, then full boost for 3rd and 4th. With the Fuel Pressure Solenoid, you can set it up to run wastegate pressure for 1st and 2nd gear, and then simulate and unplugged wastegate for the rest of the run. Hope this helps

 

[Gooberlog]

Out of curiousity has anyone ever tried spring rubbers for the suspension to help with weight transfer and launching and 60ft times? wether it be fwd or awd? its a cheap quick way to stiffen things up and make the cars sit a bit taller in the rear for fwd guys.

I just lowered my car with 2" intrax springs and they were bottoming out my front struts so i had to install a set on the front since i didn't want to replace the front struts that were weak. All i care is that the rear are super stiff when i launch to keep the car nice and level. Seemed to do a decent job and only raised the car 1/4" from where it was before. I also install a front eccentric bolt kit and rear ingals camber arms

 

[Pirrofab]

Find a way to stage your boost level and you will hit 13's now. For example; Wasegate pressure for 1st and 2nd gear, then full boost for 3rd and 4th. With the Fuel Pressure Solenoid, you can set it up to run wastegate pressure for 1st and 2nd gear, and then simulate and unplugged wastegate for the rest of the run. Hope this helps

Im assuming to do this I would need some sort of switch to command it or dsm link?

 

[91-gsx]

Im assuming to do this I would need some sort of switch to command it or dsm link?

That is right, either setting up parameters in a tuning device or with the use of a button or switch. Most tuning devices, including Dsmlink, do not really have controls that contrast with gearing. They seem to be mostly RPM or load based adjusments. So in most cases, a button or switch is simpler and cheaper. Maybe you could hit the button when you hook up in 2nd gear and have full boost for the rest of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Try out different points to hit the button and find the one that best works for traction and 1/4 mile times.

 

[Pirrofab]

That is right, either setting up parameters in a tuning device or with the use of a button or switch. Most tuning devices, including Dsmlink, do not really have controls that contrast with gearing. They seem to be mostly RPM or load based adjusments. So in most cases, a button or switch is simpler and cheaper. Maybe you could hit the button when you hook up in 2nd gear and have full boost for the rest of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. Try out different points to hit the button and find the one that best works for traction and 1/4 mile times.

You have the rusty gears turning in my head. Im trying to think of how the vacuum diagram would look to hook this up to the wastegate and to my boost controller . I think this would almost have to have different routes so a "T" fitting at a main pressure source would work?

I won't tell anyone around here I'm doing this and mess with them and ther gonna see me hit this switch and I'm going to tell them is nitrous.

 

[Phil1320]

With the FWD......before I'd go to this trouble, I'd just practice launching a bit more and train not to go full throttle in 1st or 2nd gear.....

 

[91-gsx]

You have the rusty gears turning in my head. Im trying to think of how the vacuum diagram would look to hook this up to the wastegate and to my boost controller . I think this would almost have to have different routes so a "T" fitting at a main pressure source would work?

I won't tell anyone around here I'm doing this and mess with them and ther gonna see me hit this switch and I'm going to tell them is nitrous.

This setup would be really easy on wastegate pressure, and then hit the button to run a "unplugged" wastgate line setting.
OR
If you really want to, run wastegate pressure, and then hit the button to run the system through your manual boost controller for a more regulated "HI" setting.

When you hit the button, I am sure 10-20 more psi will feel like nitrous to most people.

 

[habitatguy187]

You have the rusty gears turning in my head. Im trying to think of how the vacuum diagram would look to hook this up to the wastegate and to my boost controller . I think this would almost have to have different routes so a "T" fitting at a main pressure source would work?

I won't tell anyone around here I'm doing this and mess with them and ther gonna see me hit this switch and I'm going to tell them is nitrous.

Check the fwd thread.

 

[laser_92]

Could do the same thing with a dual stage boost controller. I had a turbosmart on my 14b fwd car, low setting was 13 PSI, and high was 22PSI. Just flipped the toggle when I was ready for it.

 

[Phil1320]

Could do the same thing with a dual stage boost controller. I had a turbosmart on my 14b fwd car, low setting was 13 PSI, and high was 22PSI. Just flipped the toggle when I was ready for it.

Good idea...and that's a nice controller. I run the Turbosmart single stage now and it works very well.

 

[SBstar]

For those guys who are still on the stock wastegate, how much are you shimming it?

 

[talontd92tsi]

I have been contemplating this myself Shane. I always wondered why dsm guys didnt do this more. Supra and 3/S guys do it quite often to help prevent the wastegate blowing open and to help hold higher boost at redline, sounds good in theory the majority of them seem to use between 3-5 washers to shim it.

I think I am going to try 3 and see how the results hold up. If its not good enough add more washers. There has to be a point where it is too much and you run out of actuator throw, and causing boost creep. I also think it will help keep the flapper from getting blown open early, may spool harder, but it could potentially cause a decent spike as well.

Trial and error is going to be the way I attempt this little project.

BTW, hows your car coming along?

 

[Nate Crisman]

The main thing with shimming the actuator is to at least get the setup into some pre-load. I couldn't tell you how many stock 14b's I'v seen over the years that the flap door wasn't even touching the hole at rest.

 

[pneumo]

I used 3 washers when I ran my best time on the 14b. I could see a difference with just one washer.

 

[talontd92tsi]

The main thing with shimming the actuator is to at least get the setup into some pre-load. I couldn't tell you how many stock 14b's I'v seen over the years that the flap door wasn't even touching the hole at rest.

Suprisingly mine sits tight without any washers int there. I just want to keep it closed a little longer as i can usually hear the external dump open around 4psi before maximum boost is reached.

I used 3 washers when I ran my best time on the 14b. I could see a difference with just one washer.

Thanks for the tip, is it a difference in how hard it spools or just less drop off on the top end.

 

[SBstar]

Thanks Dave!

I know 14b guys have been doing this for years but I could never find any real info on how much to shim it. I'll try out the 3 standard washers for now

Mine is coming along slowly, I think I finally have all the parts. Now I just have to start putting the motor together and drop it in the engine bay and start the break-in process. Last week I got my Brad Penn oil, electronic oil pressure gauge (someone learned their lesson with that mechanical crap), and got the pistons hung on the rods. I've also painted the block up pretty. Now I'm waiting for next Tuesday or Wednesday to put it all together (next couple days off).

 

[pneumo]

Thanks for the tip, is it a difference in how hard it spools or just less drop off on the top end.

Both. It holds boost better at high rpm IF you're running high boost. The flapper tends to blow open slightly if you're running over 20psi, so it needs a little help to stay closed.

 

[90gsx_luis]

does anyone have a piture of a shimed wastegate ?

 

[Phil1320]

Guys-- as much as I thought I might be able to make a go of it, I can say that it's confirmed, I won't make it to the dragstrip this year. I will continue to work on the talon here and there when time permits, but that's it.

Anyway, enough about me.

Good luck to all the guys heading to the strip this year with 14b power!

Hope you all pull down some killer numbers, respective to your personal goals.

Thanks to all for your support of my efforts in 2009, maybe I can be back on track in 2011.

 

[Gooberlog]

Sorry to hear this Phil, i think we were all looking forward to seeing you break your record again this year. Make sure you do find some time here and there to work on it so you don't loose all interest with it. Take care and don't be a stranger.

 

[Pirrofab]

Phil, Sorry to hear you can't make it... Maybe something will change so you can. Maybe surprise us one weekend and do a live feed? What about renting out the car? I would glady drive that wolf in sheeps clothing any day of the week.

 

[90EagleFTW]

I got down to 13.44@101 with filter, 3" ATR cat-back, and MBC with boost at only 15psi, still blowing through the stock cat and all on pump gas. After this outing, I hollowed the stock cat, started running boost around 18psi with a little race gas and ran right down to 12.72@108. That's all that was done to the car for power. No portwork, stock downpipe, I/C pipes, I/C, etc. Adding ported 2G mani, turbine housing, and 2.5" DP put me at 12.49@107. Then I added the O2 dump, played with timing and was more agressive with weight reduction and was at 12.29@110. Granted, every car is different, every driver is different, but, a good running 14b car should be able to produce times like these with minimal mods. Basically, any good running 14b car, even with minimal weight reduction like yours should live in the 12's.

Damn Phil thats quick. I am very impressed, both at the 13.44 time with minimal mods and your most recent times!!! 14b power!!
Other than 3" ATR cat-back, and MBC with boost at only 15psi did you have any other suspension mods/ what kind of tires/ weight reduction at the time to run 13.44? I want to have a high 12 second street car using the 14b and with minimal weight reduction. If I follow all the Free mods, and buy a Intake pipe and K and N filter, 3 inch downpipe with 3 inch catback, MBC, boost guage, Walbro 255, and then turn boost up to 18 psi and drag radials, do you think I can reach my goal? I will already have installed a ACT 2100 clutch and fidanza lightweight flywheel. Thanks in advance!!

 

[joescool2008]

Where are you shimming it at? Where it bolts onto the turbo?

 

[Nate Crisman]

Where are you shimming it at? Where it bolts onto the turbo?

correct. Putting washers between the wastegate actuator and the compressor housing will take up any slack in the wastegate system. you want to have to pull on the wastegate actuator rod in order to slip it over the pin on the turbine housing lever making some "pre-load".