Talon clutch problem?

[Zaqp]

Hey everyone, when I got my talon the other day it seemed to drive perfectly fine, my starts were pretty shaky, but I figured it was because I'm not fully used to the car yet (my Miata felt very different). When I got off the freeway about 30 miles into the drive home, I could't get the car into 1st, so I tried second and it went in, and I barely managed to get the car moving, the next stop light I couldn't get into any gears at all, and in order to get going I turned off the engine, put it in 1st, started it and quickly got going (there was a lot of screeching and grinding), I was pretty much floating gears because the clutch was useless, I pulled over and called a tow truck. The guy I bought the car from said it had a new stage 2 clutch (calling b.s. on that..). If he's right what could be wrong? This is something I must know.

Right away I figured it was the clutch, but after some lurking on the forums I realized it could be the master or slave cylinder, etc. etc. I'm starting to lean away from the clutch because there's no way it would suddenly go out like that, after driving on the freeway (boosting every now and then) with no slipping at all.

Thank you for your help,
Zach

 

[ChiTownHussla]

OK so I see you have a 96...means you have a 2g. Check around the slave and master cylinders for leakage. For the slave, you can just pull the boot back and check. there should be no liquid of any sort. The master cylinder you are going to have to get low and inside the car. Check by the pedals. If the flooring is wet at all near there its probably done for. ALso you can try for giggles, is to bleed from the slave a good 10 times . Do so with one person in car and other by slave. break open slave, press down clutch. close bleeder on slave, then let up on clutch. Just do it in that order without breaking the turns. Let us know how it turns out ###

 

[Zaqp]

Thank you, my pedal is very squishy come to think of it... if that helps the diagnosis. I'll keep you updated.

 

[95talongirl]

If the slave or master do not help you and you've bled the system.. then look into the pressure plate. That can cause problems with not being able to shift while he car is running.

 

[Zaqp]

I checked the master, and it looked moist. I'm going to bleed the system right now.

 

[Calan]

Since you mentioned that a clutch was just replaced, my bet is (in no particular order):

1. Shifter cable adjustment
2. Clutch engagement adjustment (at the pedal)
3. Improperly bled/air in the lines
4. Possible issue with flywheel step height, depending on the clutch and if the flywheel was also changed
5. Combination of any of the above

 

[Zaqp]

Before I start turning wrenches, I just want to make sure that this bad boy is the slave, if so, I'm assuming you loosen the smaller bolt to the left? (it says "S64" on it)

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[LiquidX]

Since you mentioned that a clutch was just replaced, my bet is (in no particular order):

1. Shifter cable adjustment
2. Clutch engagement adjustment (at the pedal)
3. Improperly bled/air in the lines
4. Possible issue with flywheel step height, depending on the clutch and if the flywheel was also changed
5. Combination of any of the above

Oh Craig.

1. 2g doesn't have adjustable cables

2. Proper Clutch Adjustment - YouTube

4. I would give the benefit of the doubt for now that the clutch assembly is correct unless it wasn't done. Last thing I would look at though.

3, , 5, Agreed.


If you don't have a second body, you can invest in what's called Speed Bleeders. All it is, is a new bleed nipple with a built in check valve, makes it a 1 person job. I'm sure you could also purchase a check valve for liquids and put it in line used for the bleed job and have the same outcome. Not sure how well it will hold up to the fluid though.

If the master cylinder looked wet where it comes in at the firewall (interior) then it's going to most likely need replaced since the seals have gone out. I would attempt a bleed first however but if you press the clutch pedal in and you see some bubbles come from the cap or that area (just air pushing through the fluid) then it is needing new seals or just replace the unit. Be sure to replace the slave cylinder too at the same time.


Do a bleed first and then do the master cylinder adjustment to rule out both at the same time.


Yes, that's nipple on the left is the bleed nipple. It only needs cracked open to allow the fluid to exit. Opened too much then air can enter through the threads (did with me anyway).

 

[Zaqp]

Thank you liquidX, I have a buddy on the way to help me with the bleed, I'll let you guys know what happens, thanks to everyone for the help, much appreciated!

 

[Calan]

Oh Craig.

1. 2g doesn't have adjustable cables

But they can still be out of adjustment due to stretch, worn bushings, etc.

Doesn't one of the cables have some adjustment at the shifter? Or are they both fixed and have to be replaced? (And that is just goofy BTW).

 

[Zaqp]

Alright, so we bled the master cylinder and the clutch lines, we're about to bleed the slave, but I don't know how to disconnect the rod to push it in, or can I just push it in without having to disconnect it.

Thank you.

 

[Pwrtrip75]

Hey everyone, when I got my talon the other day it seemed to drive perfectly fine, my starts were pretty shaky, but I figured it was because I'm not fully used to the car yet (my Miata felt very different). When I got off the freeway about 30 miles into the drive home, I could't get the car into 1st, so I tried second and it went in, and I barely managed to get the car moving, the next stop light I couldn't get into any gears at all, and in order to get going I turned off the engine, put it in 1st, started it and quickly got going (there was a lot of screeching and grinding), I was pretty much floating gears because the clutch was useless, I pulled over and called a tow truck. The guy I bought the car from said it had a new stage 2 clutch (calling b.s. on that..). If he's right what could be wrong? This is something I must know.

Right away I figured it was the clutch, but after some lurking on the forums I realized it could be the master or slave cylinder, etc. etc. I'm starting to lean away from the clutch because there's no way it would suddenly go out like that, after driving on the freeway (boosting every now and then) with no slipping at all.

Thank you for your help,
Zach

Screeching wouldnt be any hydraulics or adjustments... that means something is wrong/bad. Throw-out bearing maybe? If it was not in all the best shape to start with... putting a heavier duty clutch in with a heavier pressure plate could have killed it ?? I guess its really hard to say without actually hearing it.

 

[MITSUMURDOK]

My 95 did almost the same thing as yours. It was fine one day and the next morning I couldn't get it into any gears. Turned out that the springs in pressure plate busted. Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. I wish you more luck then I had.

 

[Zaqp]

Screeching wouldnt be any hydraulics or adjustments... that means something is wrong/bad. Throw-out bearing maybe? If it was not in all the best shape to start with... putting a heavier duty clutch in with a heavier pressure plate could have killed it ?? I guess its really hard to say without actually hearing it.

Unfortunately for me, you are right so far. Here is what happened after the bleed:

I pressed the clutch a few times after the bleed and heard an odd noise, I can't really describe what it sounded like, sort of squishy I guess.
I started the engine and pressed the clutch to see if I could at least get it in gear again, and when I pressed the clutch you could hear a screeching. It wasn't terrible, just sounded like the metal wasn't lubed up at all, but you could definitely tell there is still some clutch left (because the screeching started when the clutch was able to slip, and it stopped when the clutch was fully disengaged).

So, the clutch seems to be in good shape, and the hydraulic lines are now successfully bled. What's left? Pressure plate? Flywheel? Are these expensive fixes? My shop estimated $800 for a new clutch.. I'm guessing a new pressure plate or flywheel would be equally expensive.

My 95 did almost the same thing as yours. It was fine one day and the next morning I couldn't get it into any gears. Turned out that the springs in pressure plate busted. Hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. I wish you more luck then I had.

How did you go about fixing this? Was it harsh on the wallet?

 

[MITSUMURDOK]

I removed the trans and found the carnage. No other damage was done besides the clutch, but while I had it apart I replaced everything I could. I replaced the clutch, got a lightweight flywheel, new throw out bearing, clutch fork, pivot ball, main seal, replaced the seals in my transfer case, clutch line, shifter bearings, and all new hardware. I'm sure I forgot a few things, but I wanted to make sure everything was new so hopefully I won't have to drop the tranny for a good while. I do all my own work so it only cost me the price of parts and my time.

 

[Zaqp]

Ah man, I'm most likely going to have to bring her to a shop then.. Thank you for the info.


I just don't understand why the car won't go into gear though, I adjusted the rod for the master cylinder all the way to see if it would go into gear at least. If the clutch is fully disengaged shouldn't I be able to put it into gear at least? I thought maybe I adjusted the rod the wrong way, so I went the other way and nothing. The pedal just felt more loose.

 

[Pwrtrip75]

Will it go into gear with the car off?

 

[Zaqp]

Yeah