Super Charger?

[98GSat]

exactly

Wayyyyyyy Wronnggg "stupids" to get more boost you get a smaller pulley if u dont know what ur talkin about dont try to sound smart....THINK!!!!!!!!

 

[Defiant]

Rather depends on whether the pulley's on the crank or on the supercharger, actually.

But it's not happening on a DSM, so why are we bickering about it?

 

[GSGoinFast]

140hp not big enough to use a supercharger? what? i dunno how much drag a supercharger puts on an engine, but i cant imagine it being much more then power steering or what not. plus our 4 bangers rev higher then most v6's or v8's, which would spin the supercharger faster, granted the same size pulleys are on.

 

[martyd03]

I actually found this... seemed interesting to me. The only thing that doesn't sit right with me is that they must of custom made a throttle cable for it, it's not going through an air filter (at least not in the pic), and the battery has been relocated. Other than that they claim 225+HP @5.5psi with headers and exhaust as well. It's an Eaton roots type blower used on the 3800 series GM engines with a special adapter plate that will fit on our engines.

Whaddya think?

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[9D9 MITSU RS]

I actually found this... seemed interesting to me. The only thing that doesn't sit right with me is that they must of custom made a throttle cable for it, it's not going through an air filter (at least not in the pic), and the battery has been relocated. Other than that they claim 225+HP @5.5psi with headers and exhaust as well. It's an Eaton roots type blower used on the 3800 series GM engines with a special adapter plate that will fit on our engines.

Whaddya think?

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That looks like a really bad fit. The pulley looks slightly diagonal to me and way too close to the strut tower. If I had enough money saved up to build my motor and I wasn't in school, I WOULD S/C my car just to prove that it could be done. A centrifugal SC WILL work with a little fabrication. Pretty much like building a custom turbo kit. Space is the issue, there is room at the front of the engine bay for the S/C. The stock airbox stuff can be pulled and you can relocate the fuse box. Just move it down. Move the battery to the trunk... VOILA! Room to play around. I just wish I had the funds to back up my mouth.

 

[Defiant]

140hp not big enough to use a supercharger? what? i dunno how much drag a supercharger puts on an engine, but i cant imagine it being much more then power steering or what not.

It's much, much more. Then you still have the thermal loads from the compressed air, same as a non-intercooled turbo.

If you could whip the clearance and drive issues, you could put someone's supercharger on a DSM. But with the ease and known routes for turbocharging them -even the N/A engines- it's kind of being like one of those noggin-smacking preachers in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Still, if sense applied to cars, no one would ever make money selling spinner wheelcovers.

 

[BumpinTitaniums]

One thing that people haven't mentioned much is the advantages of a supercharger over a turbocharger. They typically will build more boost in the low rpm range then a turbo can (especially on such a small motor). The throttle response is better, too, no lag whatsoever (potentially making it more effective in an autocross situation). There are definite off-the-line advantages and then there's the whole trailblazer thing.

 

[GSGoinFast]

It's much, much more. Then you still have the thermal loads from the compressed air, same as a non-intercooled turbo.

If you could whip the clearance and drive issues, you could put someone's supercharger on a DSM. But with the ease and known routes for turbocharging them -even the N/A engines- it's kind of being like one of those noggin-smacking preachers in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Still, if sense applied to cars, no one would ever make money selling spinner wheelcovers.

well you could put an "after-cooler" on if it was down in front of the engine

 

[Redmachine]

Thomas knights web site sells that exact kit. The dude put down an 8.8 in the 1/8th(not sure what that translates in the quarter) He sells the entire kit for 3500

And as far as the centrifical setups, people had those but the rod used kept getting jacked. The blower sat on the battery side then a long rod with a pulley on the other end kept bending, completely unreliable.

 

[kelvinb]

Wayyyyyyy Wronnggg "stupids" to get more boost you get a smaller pulley if u dont know what ur talkin about dont try to sound smart....THINK!!!!!!!!

smaller crank pulley + bigger sc pulley = more hp
Or the other way around. i dono

 

[SnoopySLR]

wow, you can deffinatly tell everyone on here only knows about Turbo's....

Think about it. A pulley that spins 10 rpm that is 3" in diameter will take twice as long to spin as a 1.5" diameter pulley spinning at 10 rpm.

A supercharger will not get lag, centrificle or roots type, it don't matter. Superchargers are spinning as soon as your car starts. There is lag if you deffine lag as not having full boost at idle. Boost keeps climbing as your RPM's climb, so you gotta be careful. No boost spikes, but miss a gear and you might hit more boost than you want.

I personally like turbo's better. Why use engine power to create power, when you can use engine waste to make power. Superchargers do sound awesome though...

 

[awd4g63]

We have enough problems with our turbos (even our factory turbos), I don't think a supercharger on these cars would be very practical.

 

[9D9 MITSU RS]

for the NT, it's preference imo. 3500 for turbo or 3500 for SC. Boost is boost. I have seen cars b4 with a SC, Turbo, and N2O.

 

[EDM95]

I dont give a f*$% how old this thread is.
I just want to know if any one has they car s/c? also how do you s/c a 420a n/t a/t?
i want to see a write up. Also I dont want to hear get a turbo it is better,
i am talking about a s/c so dont foul it up.
Was this mod ever functional or worth it? Maybe i will do this some time in the future.

 

[Shadow98]

I seriously doubt it was ever done...

 

[EDM95]

So much for that idea

 

[dr1665]

I dont give a f*$% how old this thread is.

At least you searched to find it and spotted that it was old.

I just want to know if any one has they car s/c? also how do you s/c a 420a n/t a/t?

Has they car s/c? You from the dumb, dirty south? C'mon man. The hood is that way. We're talking forced induction, here, not hood rats.

This has been done before. I've seen the pics and videos. But I'm pretty sure it's only been done once. Also, you supercharge a 2GNT with the automatic the same way you supercharge the one with the manual. You'll just be slower in the end. Superchargers, as seen in the pictures above, are installed on the engine. You could supercharge a 420A on an engine stand with no transmission at all if you wanted to.

i want to see a write up.

So do a lot of other people. Get out there and make it happen. Be that one new DSMer who actually innovates something. There really hasn't been anything new and groundbreaking in the DSM community since the Talon Digest died off. Nobody thinks for themselves anymore.

Also I dont want to hear get a turbo it is better, i am talking about a s/c so dont foul it up.

A lack of proper punctuation does a fine job of fouling it up. Now, since we've already established that there is no write up and that, given the lazy, uncreative nature of the vast majority of DSM owners in the last five years or so, it's not likely to happen, why not use this seemingly decent thread to re-hash those aspects of supercharger installation that everyone knows today? Have you done any research on the matter? What are the problems you foresee with undertaking such a project? How can you inspire the other members to share their experience and grasp of theory with you so that the community, as a whole, might get the pieces close enough that you could finally assemble this bugger?

Was this mod ever functional or worth it?

As I mentioned, I've known one guy, in Florida, I believe, who got such a project running. I want to say I saw video, but maybe he never got that. I know he had the adapter plate, the charger was mounted, the belt was run, and the intake was plumbed, so I think it's safe to say he had all the big pieces out of the way. Did he have tuning issues? Did he grow tired of mouthy, know-it-all sycophants on DSM websites discounting his achievement as fake simply because they had never actually seen it happen before? You would have to ask him. (And no, I don't recall his name.)

At the same time, I've had a couple opportunities to drive the twin-charged 1G AWD in the past year. That car made 450awhp+ on a stock bottom end, Eaton M90, and 18G turbo. The plumbing of a twin-charged, twin-cooled 4G63 was a major pain in the ass, so Ray went back to turbo-only.

(PS - Turbo is better.)

Maybe i will do this some time in the future.

Excellent. Maybe I will too. In the future, if you're only marginally sure you will undertake a certain project, you might want to consider a different tone in your bump to the thread. Jumping into a thread like Pimp of the Year and smacking everyone around so they will jump to attention really doesn't play too well. Try bumping a thread like this with a question that shows you're already balls-deep into this project and looking for some input, and watch how things turn out differently.

Cheers.

PS - This thread is disappointing. I was actually excited about the thought of some 2GNT guy on Tuners finally pulling this off. Oh well.

 

[EDM95]

I guess i will be one of the first guys to pull this off then.
I guess because every one is to scared to do this project it will have to be up to me.
Call me crazy.

 

[Shadow98]

I wouldn't say scared. They just chose to spend their hard earned money on what has been proven time and time again...

 

[EDM95]

Yes they do. but it would be nice to have one of the few dsm's with this mod.

 

[Whiteshadow]

Like I tell many Honda guys who try and mod their D16...being different doesn't always work

 

[Defiant]

I guess i will be one of the first guys to pull this off then.

No, you won't. You'll dissolve into "What ever became of..." like this thread originally did in 2004.

So much for life on the surface of the DSM moon.

 

[RiceGrinder]

Hi why not do both and reap the benefits of both just my oppinion. Good luck and post some pics if you get it done.

 

[Whiteshadow]

Hi why not do both and reap the benefits of both just my oppinion. Good luck and post some pics if you get it done.

Engineering something like that would cost plenty of money and require some know how...just look at the Bugatti Veyron, it's an engineering marvel...but it has a nice price tag as well.

A DSM...just aint worth it.

1g/2g - Turbo 3g - Supercharge

 

[dr1665]

s @ Defiant. You, sir, are one of the reasons why this community is great. Should I ever find myself with plans which take me to or through Glorious Galt, I shall indeed be looking forward to the opportunity to shake your hand.

Engineering something like that would cost plenty of money and require some know how...

It's been done and done for far less than many people on this site have paid for their turbocharger or wheels alone. The more you know, the less it will cost. An HRC system for a 420A DSM retails near $4000. A handy DIYer could piece a turbosystem together for a hair more than a grand. I suspect I could supercharge a 420A for less than $700. :shrug

just look at the Bugatti Veyron, it's an engineering marvel...but it has a nice price tag as well.

Perhaps, but it's a Bugatti. It's price is a factor more of prestige and limited edition than it is of engineering supremacy. Were it made by Chevrolet, you can bet it would be a quarter the price.

A DSM...just aint worth it.

To some, but to others, building another 2.4L, GT-series-powered DSM drag car wouldn't be worth it. Doing something most others have not is the reason why so many people today are interested in building a DSM. What would have happened sixteen years ago, had the forefathers of the DSM world listened to the naysayers who were undoubtedly telling them that "four-bangers aint worth it?"

1g/2g - Turbo 3g - Supercharge

Pure opinion. Having driven the twin-charged DSM, I can tell you it's nice to have 22psi on tap from 2000rpm to 6000rpm. It's nice to have over 450awhp at your command and not have any lag whatsoever. It's exciting to drive something different.

In short, and this goes for any non-mainstream project in the DSM community, if there is no write-up, you will have to have the tenacity to see things through to the end. If you don't like sycophants telling you it won't work or that it's a waste of time, then you're going to have to do your homework to be sure you can complete the project with a minimum of assistance from forum resources. The absence of technical information on the subject means that you will be exposed to more opinionated lip service than anything else.

I'd really like to see a 2GNTer pull this off again.

Source a good roots-type blower from one of those 3.8L GM sleds, build a 3-plate adapter (use countersunk hardware and anaerobic sealant) to mate it to the conveniently horizontal flange of the lower intake manifold, adapt a longer belt for the alternator to run it, and then build a basic fuel system with the SMFU and fuel pump. If you can get 4lbs to the engine non-aftercooled, you're in business.

It would be cool to see again.