2G Starting issues with new to me modded GSX.

[97gsxmod]

New to DSM's and new to modified cars. Just bought a modified GSX. It’s tuned on DSMLink and has bigger cams, custom headers with side exit (cat and muffler delete). Fuel injectors and pump have been upgraded and and electric fan installed (that runs before the car is started, as soon as key is switched to on position).

My trouble is getting it started and here’s my clues.

When I bought the car the owner had it plugged in, he started it but he had to give it some gas to get it going and keep it alive. Then the tow truck driver started it the same way with no major issues. Then I started it when I got home the same way with no major issues. But it didn’t start the next time. So I replaced the batteries thinking the original one was faulty. This then got the car to start with a few tries.

But the next day when I went to start it, it wouldn’t start again. It turns over, and sometimes I get a few pops but not much. I’m thinking for some reason the car needs a real lot of current to start because of the mods, but I have no real idea why.

Was wondering if anyone can shed some light of the possible cause and the best possible solution. Thanks

It’s a 2g 1997 forgot to mention!

 

[Dericsh]

Have you had a look thru this article yet?

How To Diagnose A No-Start

Diagnosing a No-StartI've been seeing a lot of No-Start related threads popping up lately, and I figured a basic Tech Article for diagnosing a few of the most common No-Start problems might be in order. Any images posted are courtesy of my 1990 GSX your setup may differ slightly; refer to...

www.dsmtuners.com

Lots of different things can cause a no start, going thru some of this troubleshooting will help narrow it down. Let us know what else you see when you have time.

 

[97gsxmod]

I can hear the starter working.

When battery is at its fullest voltage I get a few pops from the exhaust and it gets close to starting. So I have fuel spark and air.

Tested battery with a volt meter to check resting voltage and voltage while cranking (it stayed over 10v) . Battery is good. And it seems like it will start when the battery is charged to the max. When I bought the brand new battery it originally started.

I believe for some reason the battery needs to turn the engine over faster than average from the mods or DSMLink tune, thus it can only start the car with a completely full battery? But I’m guessing hear just based off the fact that the car started when it was plugged in, then wouldn’t start, then started again with fresh battery, now won’t start again. But I don’t know the if I’m right, and if I am right I don’t know the science as to why this is happening and I would like to understand it.

I've checked for a thread mentioning this issue of needing optimal battery capacity to get one of these modded cars to start, but I have found nothing. This is leading me to believe my assumption could be incorrect and the battery strength correlation to the car starting and not starting might be coincidental?

 

[Dericsh]

I believe there is an option in ecm link for a cold-start fuel add, but I’m not familiar with how to adjust it. Hopefully someone can chime in that knows.

I would want to check the mechanical timing and make sure it’s not a tooth or two off.

 

[97gsxmod]

Thank you! Needing more fuel on start would explain why even when it does start it needs the gas petal pump a little. I will check the timing marks as well.

 

[Nick903@]

New to dsm and new to modified cars. Just bought a modified gsx. It’s tuned on dsm link and has bigger cams, custom headers with side exit ( cat and muffler delete). Fuel injectors and pump have been upgraded and and electric fan installed ( that runs before the car is started, as soon as key is switched to on position).

My trouble is getting it started and here’s my clues. When I bought the car the owner had it plugged in , he started it but he had to give it some gas to get it going and keep it alive. Then the tow truck driver started it the same way with no major issues. Then I started when I got home the same way with no major issues. But then it didn’t start the next time. So I replaced the batteries thinking the original one was faulty. This then got the car to start with a few tries. But then the next day when I went to start it it wouldn’t start again. It turns over , and sometimes I get a few pops but not much. I’m thinking for some reason the car needs a real lot of current to start because of the mods , but I have no real idea why. Was wondering if anyone can shed some light of the possible cause and the best possible solution. Thanks

I’m just touching bases here but does the car for sure have gas not because that gas gauge is reading good but that u know it has gas for sure also is the fuel pump kicking on I don’t see it being the battery if it’s been replaced and new ive started cars up with little to no juice it being the issue with battery but if it’s not starting in there gas etc I’m venting down to valves bent or leaking but I would start with a compression check if everything else checks out good

Also check intercooler pipes make sure there are all tight

 

[97gsxmod]

I’m just touching bases here but does the car for sure have gas not because that gas gauge is reading good but that u know it has gas for sure also is the fuel pump kicking on I don’t see it being the battery if it’s been replaced and new ive started cars up with little to no juice it being the issue with battery but if it’s not starting in there gas etc I’m venting down to valves bent or leaking but I would start with a compression check if everything else checks out good

Yea definitely has gas. Car has front side exit and you can smell the fuel coming out of it and see the smoke puffs when it tries to fire. It just ran fine and did an impressive pull so compression shouldn’t be the issue.

And it originally started with the fresh battery but after sitting for a day won’t start again. Think I flooded it today while trying to start it after recharging the battery so I’m going to go try again soon and see if charging helped

 

[Nick903@]

Yea definitely has gas. Car has front side exit and you can smell the fuel coming out of it and see the smoke puffs when it tries to fire. It just ran fine and did an impressive pull so compression shouldn’t be the issue.

try using starter fluid spray into intake see if it likes that and starts

And it originally started with the fresh battery but after sitting for a day won’t start again. Think I flooded it today while trying to start it after recharging the battery so I’m going to go try again soon and see if charging helped

Might try replacing plugs sept there cheap also look at the gap on spark plugs see if there completely closed

Just double check everything sometimes it’s what we least think it is also I know there’s this sensor above intake if it went bad it won’t start replaced mine twice

 

[steve]

You jumped into the deep end of the pool.
You need to gather as much information about the actual mods to the car. While the PO might provide a list you need to verify everything and document what you have.

DSMLink logs will prove to be very useful as you diagnose this problem. Did you get the cable and download the software to talk to the ECU.

When the car won't start, is it cranking as far as when it does start, much slower, or not at all?
You say it stays above 10v, is that with both batteries or only the new one when fully charged.

The link Deric posted is good but much is for cars that are close to stock and yours sounds far from it, which is why documenting the details is critical.

 

[97gsxmod]

You jumped into the deep end of the pool.
You need to gather as much information about the actual mods to the car. While the PO might provide a list you need to verify everything and document what you have.

Thank you for the response! I figured I was jumping in deep and that was kinda the plan. PO seems like he built it well.

1997 Eclispe GSX
BC Racing Coilovers
Carbonetics carbon fiber hood and hatch
Carbonetics carbon fiber airbag delete
Strictly Performance Rebuilt Stage 1 Head w/ Kiggly Steel Street Beehive and Kelford 272 cams
Stock bottom end (60,xxx miles on it)
Front mount intercooler w/ 2.5 inch piping
BSFab Tubular exhaust manifold w/ side exit exhaust
External 38MM Tial MVS Wastegate w/ 1.1 bar/15.95 psi spring setup
Tial QR 50MM BOV, currently to atmosphere but can recirc.
FIC 1120cc Low Z
NGK bpr7es spark plugs w/ NGK wires
Holset Hx35
Bullseye Performance DSM housing
4 inch FP intake pipe
Manual Boost Controller
Mishimoto Thermostat
Mishimoto radiator
Gates Timing Components w/ Gates Racing Timing Belt
Fuel lab fuel pressure Regulator
Tuned on DSMLink V3

I mentioned to PO the starting issues, he replied and said he never experienced any and said to just check the negative terminal and maybe the starter is dying. But when I went to see him he had the battery plugged into a charger and that obviously means he must have had trouble starting it .

It came with a ECMLink cable and I was told it’s running a untuned link, as in a downloaded unaltered tune I believe. So I assume tuning is an issue. But when he got it started he did a rip and it pulled like a monster so the engine seemed healthy as far as compression and most likely timing gears were aligned correctly. I’m going to try to get a proper laptop for tuning and see what I can figure out (completely new to tuning so it’s going to take a while).

The car has a volt meter gauge in the drivers view and it and I get faster turns, more pops and the car wants to start more overall when it reads the highest volts. The highest volts it will read is like 11.8 from the drivers gauge but when I check it straight off the battery with a meter it’s 12.5. There’s an electric fan that turns on as soon as the key is turn into the on position and before the car is started. I’m wondering if this drain on the battery would be enough to cause the issue?

I'd also like to publicly state that I bought the car with absolutely no warranty’s or promises about the condition and I was made fully aware I was buying at my own risk. (I feel like PO is scared of being sued so he doesn’t want to be completely honest even after the sale. Going to send him this link to him in hopes he replies on here under an alter ego with some good information for me. I don’t care about the rust and the dented floor rail I’ll fix it. )

 

[99dsmer4g63]

From the mods I heard I’d imagine the fiav is gone. Could be why it’s needs help to stay running at first.

Not sure of the fuel choice but depending how far you took the car from its original home and if the weather is much colder you may need to adjust the fuel enrichment when cranking accordingly.



-Daniel

 

[97gsxmod]

From the mods I heard I’d imagine the fiav is gone. Could be why it’s needs help to stay running at first.

Not sure of the fuel choice but depending how far you took the car from its original home and if the weather is much colder you may need to adjust the fuel enrichment when cranking accordingly.



-Daniel

Thanks for the response
PO lived had it originally in PA and brought it to CT with him when he moved to sell it. I live like 20 min from him in CT. And when he started it and when I started it it definitely needed a little gas to get going. ( kinda like how you would use a choke on the lawn mower to get it going before it could idle on its own). So not enough fuel on starting could be an issue. I’m going to get a picture of under the hood to put up here maybe that will help a little and I’ll check to see if the fiav valve is replaced or canceled.

 

[99dsmer4g63]

A picture would be nice for us to see of the engine bay. Is the car on ethanol or 93?

Ethanol will take slightly longer to start in colder weather.

Will it start if you leave the charger on it while cranking? My charger has a start mode for cranking the car after charging it.

The fiav is pretty much the choke on your car. Sounds like it’s blocked off though

-Daniel

 

[97gsxmod]

A picture would be nice for us to see of the engine bay. Is the car on ethanol or 93?

Ethanol will take slightly longer to start in colder weather.

Will it start if you leave the charger on it while cranking? My charger has a start mode for cranking the car after charging it.

The fiav is pretty much the choke on your car. Sounds like it’s blocked off though

-Daniel

I have to get a charger, OP kept the one he was using. I’m assuming it’s got 91 or 93 in the tank, OP said it CAN be tuned for ethanol implying that’s not what’s in the tank. Going to get those engine bay pics up asap. Thanks for the help

 

[99dsmer4g63]

If having the charger on it starts the car I would start checking voltage around the car and ensure there is no faulty wiring or connections.

Be sure to follow up with Steve’s post and suggestions.

-Daniel

 

[97gsxmod]

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[97gsxmod]

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[Bud92gsx]

How about this. Welcome to dsmtuners.

You should fill out a vehicle profile > http://www.dsmtuners.com/dsm-profiles/

It helps us help you.
Also you have no Introduction thread

 

[97gsxmod]

Most things are still unknown to be besides what I got from the add that I posted here. Not sure what turbo it’s running but I’ll try to get more information from PO.

But I think I MIGHT have figured it out. Although I hear the starter firing it seems to be going slow when I turn the key some of the time, then I’ll stop and turn it again and it will go faster. And vice versa. It’s will go fast when I turn the key, then stop and turn it again and it goes slow. This made me think to check the rpms on the dash while cranking to see if the engine is spinning over fast enough. I believe most cars are supposed to be started with the speed of 150-300 rpm and I should see that on the dash if starter is working effectively… correct? Not seeing much of anything at all on the rpm’s on the dash while trying to start so starter issues???

 

[RamenPride]

Going by the pics, I doubt the FIAV has been blocked off because it doesn't look like the throttle body has ever been removed and I can still see the lower half and no obvious block off plate. It sounds like the engine cranks over, so I'd probably rule out the battery being an issue. As far as it being on a charger, a lot of people keep the battery hooked up to a maintainer on seldom driven vehicles.
On a semi-related note, the BOV is vented with the stock MAF and the valve cover breather is vented to the atmosphere. Might want to consider recirculating the BOV and using a sealed catch can instead. Check the plugs to see if they're fouled, because that could cause a no start.

 

[97gsxmod]

Going by the pics, I doubt the FIAV has been blocked off because it doesn't look like the throttle body has ever been removed. It sounds like the engine cranks over, so I'd probably rule out the battery being an issue. As far as it being on a charger, a lot of people keep the battery hooked up to a maintainer on seldom driven vehicles.
On a semi-related note, the BOV is vented with the stock MAF and the valve cover breather is vented to the atmosphere. Might want to consider recirculating the BOV and using a sealed catch can instead. Check the plugs to see if they're fouled, because that could cause a no start.

My blow off valve is to atmosphere. What do you think of my last posts diagnosis?

 

[danl]

Post a video of you trying to start it where we can listen to the engine. Also be aware your strut towers are shot and the car may not be safe to drive until properly repaired.

 

[97gsxmod]

Post a video of you trying to start it where we can listen to the engine. Also be aware your strut towers are shot and the car may not be safe to drive until properly repaired.

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The strut towers seem like they’re just surface rusted, I think the pic makes them look worse than they really are. But Ill know for sure soon when try to clean it up.

Can anyone confirm that rpm’s should be reading somewhere in the 150-300 range if the starter is working correctly?

After doing more research I found people talking about starter teeth not engaging the fly wheel teeth correctly on some setups because of a improper fly wheel. They didn’t go into detail but I’m assuming this “ improper flywheel” could come from a swapped engine. And my engine has been swapped so maybe different year 4g63s came with slightly different flywheel teeth? Is this something anyone’s heard of?

Is the GST flywheel different? Found someone saying that in YouTube comments so it’s a rumor to me at best

 

[danl]

That’s about how fast they turn over when cold with thick oil. It should at least sputter. If you’ve been trying to start it and failing, you need to pull the plugs and make sure they aren’t saturated with fuel. Also crank the engine over without plugs to get fuel out of the cylinders.

Then you need to personally verify it’s getting fuel, spark, and has compression.

 

[97gsxmod]

is the gst flywheel different? Found someone saying that in YouTube comments so it’s a rumor to me at best

Nvm this found out the gst flywheel is bigger

That’s about how fast they turn over when cold with thick oil. It should at least sputter. If you’ve been trying to start it and failing, you need to pull the plugs and make sure they aren’t saturated with fuel. Also crank the engine over without plugs to get fuel out of the cylinders.

Then you need to personally verify it’s getting fuel, spark, and has compression.

I didn’t in my video but some of the time I get some pops and she wants to start so the spark might be weak but it’s getting spark. I’ll test all 4 tomorrow. I can smell the fuel coming from the side exit so that’s good (I can smell it a lot). And car was pulling great in the test drive so I assume compression is fine. But I’ll test all this tomorrow to make sure.

Getting enough air past the turbo might be an issue tho? Not sure what’s on here but it doesn’t look huge. Posted some pics of it. But when I just went to try to start the car again I got some pops and she almost started. But then on the second crank attempt the RPMs were not moving at all while it was cranking. Weak dying starter?