Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

[prodsm]

All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.



I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Ok.... This is getting irritating. Lets recap. Wrecked Car, motor, harness, ecu, trans, the whole 9 yards swapped into a new body. Car started, ran like shit, and died! Eventually after much sweat and tears, found the coil pack bad. Replaced it, started right up! Then coil pack died. After more blood sweat and tears found the Power Transistor is bad and thats why its failing.

So I just installed a different Power Transistor, new coil Pack, and I have checked, I have spark on all 4. Looks pretty good too cause I can see it quite well in the daytime. However it wont start! It did pop really bad a couple times out of the Exhaust, but no fire in the engine. However a couple times testing out spark to make sure I have spark, I did get a pop or two. But nothing extreme. I've tested spark, I have spark! Obviously I have fuel and everything else is the exact same from when it ran on the other coil packs except there's a different PTU which hopefully wont kill this coil pack because I can't afford another.

So WTF!

 

[socalmk1]

Double check that you have fuel. Just because you did in the other car, doesnt mean you do on this one, Make sure everything is plugged in right also.

Also, check that you have the firing order right

 

[InfiniteGSX]

Uh, This car ran. I drove it into the garage, Turned it off and tried starting it and it wouldn't start. Tested and found no Spark. So I replaced the coil pack and power transistor and it wont start. Nothing has changed since it ran. Except Coil Pack, New Radiator and PTU.

 

[tony070804]

UPDATE- crossed over starter relay and now the car will turn over. checked spark and I have spark, now I have no fuel. Can anyone tell how to bypass the fuel pump relay and exactly which one it is? also maybe the mpi relay?

 

[DirtyDSMDan]

first its called the neutral SAFETY switch. not the clutch starter switch... and its there for a reason. sounds to me like the switch is bad, if you unplug it, it still acts like the circuit is open. so you would have to jump the plug (removing it makes it so you can start the car without pushing in the clutch, which isnt a good thing... no matter what anyone tells you) so i would check that first, a voltage drop on it with the clutch pushed in should do the trick, but if you hear a click on the starter area... could be the pull winding on the starter solenoid.

 

[PFC_CiarlilloM]

Car Info:
1995 Eagle Talon ESi Automatic

Saturday/Sunday
Okay so the last few days my car has trouble starting. It all started sunday, I drove it down to my friends house(40mile trip) saturday night. She ran fine all the way down there. No signs of any problems. Went to go start her up and everything would come on but the car wouldnt turn over. Replaced the battery and still nothing. Finally I noticed I blew the Fuseable Link for my engine under the hood. I took my power windows fuseable link since it was the same and I didnt have power windows. She started right up and drove her home.

Monday
So I thought my problem was solved since it started up Monday morning just fine. Well when I went to go start it, it wouldnt turn over again so I decided to check the fuse and It was blown again. I figured well maybe sine its a 15 year old fuse and my header is throwing off insane heat thats just the cause. Well picked up two fuses from the store and tried it again. Blew the new fuse. I did however notice that my terminal post connector was cracked and almost in two on the positive side. Well I replaced it with new post connectors and put the fuse in that I had and she started up just fine. I was able to drive her to work just fine (1 mile away) and in the morning (i work 3rd shift) she started up no hesistation.

Tuesday
So I went to go pick up my check (roughly 20 min highway trip) and she started up just fine. Again drove the 20 mins on the freeway and everything was going good. Got to my work, parked and turn the car off, well she didnt start again. The fuse wasnt blown, I had brand new terminal connectors, and brand new battery. When I said she wouldnt start she wouldnt even turn over. So I checked the fuse and that was all good, then I started messing with the terminal connector and thats when I got her to atleast turn over but wouldnt start. but when that happened It seemed like she was going to start so I tried turning the key and then I went down and back up really fast and thats when something weird started happen. Basically I took the key out and the car was still trying to turn over. I immediately took the negative cable off and everything stopped. I did blow the engine fuseable link again. My step dad finally arrived, we got a new fuseable link, and messed with the terminal and thats when she started to turn over agian. But we didnt hear the fuel pump "whirl" so to speak. We went to grab a fuel pump relay and still didnt hear anything. He checked the release valve on the fuel rail I believe and gas didnt come out. Long story short I had to have to towed home.


Conclusion: I am really lost where to begin here.

Probable causes:
1. Mass heat from my header caused wires to fry/short out somewhere.
-I noticed that on my positive terminal; I have a thick black wire with red strip that runs into my starter and 4 smaller gauge white wires that end up running to my fusebox under the hood, Then my negative terminal; I have one thicker gauge wire running into my strut tower and the other runs down into my tranny where it meets the starter? Does this sound right? I think I shorted something out because If I most the wires/or my terminal posts itll either try turn over(it wont start but I have power to everything else) or not do anything at all. Plus this would explain my blowing fuses issue.

2. Maybe my fuel pump was on its way out and then finally died after the shut it off or combination of this and #1.
- I dont hear the "whirl" noise(before and after replacing Fuel pump Relay), I took out the back seat and fuel pump cover and noticed it is still factory. Plus not having any fuel come out in the relief on the fuel rail I believe? come out.

3. Maybe coincidence my starter decided to go on me as well.
............................................

Plan of attack:
1.First thing I plan on doing is running to the gas station and getting fuel. I filled her to almost full and put on 300miles and the gauge still read 1/4 but maybe the float is off.

2. Test/Grab a new MFI/ASD Relay.(Haynes states that this along with fuel pump Relay are needed to insure proper fuel pump operation) If comes back Okay, Test the fuel pump. My Haynes repair manual stated that I can test it with jumper cables but I think Ill try that with my bettery charger. (seems a little safer )

-If it is my fuel pump I was planning on picking up a Walbro 190 because I plan to do some mods/engine build in the near future. I believe I read that its okay to run on the stock fuel rail as long as I dont rewire it. Is this correct? and If so would I get the GSS250?
Walbro 190 Fuel Pump Kit - 90-99 Talon Eclipse DSM - DSM Fuel Pumps - Fuel - DSM Performance Parts | DSMparts.com
...............................................................

Is it possible to buy a brand new wiring harness/ battery cable harness. The one that runs from the positive all the down to the starter/fusebox and negative down into where the tranny/starter meet and strut tower? I really dont feel like cutting off the plastic shield and the 3 million feet of electrical tape. It would just be easier buying new.


Hopefully This helps. I tried being as detailed as possible. Thanks and any help is much appreciated.

 

[BogusSVO]

The starter solnoild was hanging closed when you removed the Neg cable

I would say you kept blowing the fuse linkss from a high amp draw to the starter

Your car may be with a signal trip wire from the starter to FP relay.

First thing I would try is pull/test/replace the starter

 

[PFC_CiarlilloM]

Also is the ASD/MFI relay the same/interchangable with the Fuel Pump Relay?

@BogusSVO Thanks! I will do that shortly, Unfortunately its raining right now so I have to get the garage situated. Where would be a good place to buy a starter? I know the local auto stores have them but they seem pricey. Well not pricey but for the same price I could get something better online. How much do they usually go for?

 

[mmm1137]

Hello, Im totally lost. I just rebuild my engine and I went to start her up and she cranks for about 3 seconds and stopped. Now when I turn the key all the way there is no sound at all. I bypassed the starter circut and I can easily crank the motor so I know its not seized or a dead battery or starter. I disconnected the fuel line to check if its delivering fuel it is not and I checked for spark and there is no spark to any of the plugs. I replaced the camshaft position sensor becuase I broke it removing the cam during the rebuild and I just swapped the crankshaft angle sensor to make certain it was not that, and I check all my fuses and the starter relay. I think ive explored most of the possibilitys. My only guess is the ECU or perhaps the old security system is preventing me from starting it.

Also my entire engine is stoke and I have no mods, Id like to mod it but in CA the only mod they alow are bumper stickers.

Any help is greatly appriciated. Thanks. -Mike

 

[em5780]

double check the blue engine fuse its a 20amp under the hood. if not see if you can borrow a friends ecu. make sure you pull it out and look at it sometimes it is hard to see that is actually blown.

 

[mix3d_3motionz]

Have you checked the ASD relay? Also its very easy to hook the mix up the CPS connector and the Coil connector. I believe the AC connector as well (from what I have heard) I would double check all of them to be safe. Click the link for a diagram. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-bolt-tech/320690-engine-wiring-diagram-96-n-t-eclipse-needed-where-buy.html

 

[mmm1137]

Yep, I checked the Engine fuse, the blue 20 amp one its good. I also made sure the A/C and the Crankshaft position sensor connectors where correctly plugged in. I haven't checked the ASD relay though. I'm not sure where that is in the 4g63 I remember its on the drivers side in the engine conpartment on the 420a's. Can you explain where the ASD relay is? Thanks for the help this thing is kicking my butt. -Mike

Also, I swapped the starting relay today to make sure it was ok, still nothing though.

 

[em5780]

Did you blow a fuse at any point? Just curious.

 

[mmm1137]

Nope, never blew a fuse.

Im working on my problem again and I noticed something odd. The coolant resevoir level, charging system(battery sybol), oil, brake, warning indicator lights all stay on even without the key in the ingnition and they dont go off also when I connct my OBD reader to the computer it always comes back saying unable to read computer??? I'm going to go through the wiring diagrams and also swap the computers today and I'll update you all on what happens an diff you have any idea PLEASE let me know.

ok so I looked through the wiring diagrams and I found thatwhen the key is turned is opens the starting circuit that reaches a starting relay followed by a anti theft relay which is attached to the ECU so it may be possible that the anti theft system is preventing me from starting.

 

[BogusSVO]

where to get a starter, thats on you. Personally a lifetime from a parts store close to me is what I get, so warrenty will not be an issue and days aways in shipping time.

 

[PFC_CiarlilloM]

Thanks! That's what I ended up doing except they didn't have it in stock but it will be here tomorrow. Also I did end up getting a Walbro 190 as my fuel pump is stock so I might as well kill two birds with one stone.

 

[Krayth]

Just an update on this:
I got the new computer in last night and... no go. It still won't spark on coil 1. Is there anything that could be stopping the computer from ground-triggering just the one coil? I know the coil works because I can short the ground out of it to trigger it, but the computer won't.
Also, while cranking, the check engine light and battery light come on until a couple seconds after it stops cranking. Is that normal?

 

[bryanwheat]

You need a schematic and a multimeter. Just throwing parts on there gets expensive fast.

 

[mmm1137]

It looks like a have short somewhere thats cousing it not to start. without the key in certain indicator lights stay on. Looks like I have to find the short.

 

[Janaelen]

Check your ground strap on the engine block to the car as well as the battery to the car. These being loose can set the warning lights off that you referenced.

Outside of the Crank Position Sensor and the Cam position sensor, you should be getting spark. If you still aren't, have the ECU checked OR pop the cover off and check for burnt traces, leaking caps or burnt semiconductor smell.

Another good thing to check is the relay pack on the passenger side center console and the coil pack. I had to go through all this on one my eclipses before I realized it was the ECU at fault.

With regards to the theft deterrent system, I don't think these cars really had one that wasn't aftermarket or added on later by mitsubishi. The easiest way to tell (outside of having all original key fobs and remotes) is to check the steering column and follow the starter wire to see if there's a relay or alarm along the way. If there is, yank that out until you're done with fixing your car.

Either way, good luck and hit us back if you found the problem.

 

[PFC_CiarlilloM]

So I replaced the ASD/MFI relay and now she starts, but it doesn't seem like a faulty ASD relay would cause my engine fuseable link to blow. Or does it make sense?

 

[91awd26]

Since you say you know there is spark and fuel, do you have good compression and is your timing on? I've seen it happen more than once where the car got shut off and would not start back up and it turned out to be that the timing jumped.

 

[DirtyDSMDan]

could be the voltage regulator on your alternator going out.. tho that would blow more than just that fusible link. definately want to visually check all your wires for any shorts, especially any that are close to heat

 

[PFC_CiarlilloM]

@DirtyDSMDan thanks I'll check that as well. Unfortunately, my whole damn engine bay is suffering from heat thanks to my new header even my CAI is hot. I ordered some thermo-tec header wrap from JEGS so hopefully thatll take care if that.

 

[mmm1137]

Thanks Jay, great advise. I actually replaced the engine grounding strap becuase it was frayed up. I'm still checking throught the wiring. I know for sure it has a factory aftermarket theft system. When the door is locked you can see a green light that says security on it and if you have the window rolled down you can hear the MFI relay also known as the ASD relay click. I'm just having difficulty finding the anti theft relay. I heard it was located right above the fuses below the dash but according to the map on the fuse box cover it says they are the heter and defogger relays. I read alot of the posts hear but haven't found a strait answer. I measured 12volts out of the starter switch and determined that power can go through it when the key is turned however theres a B/W wire that has 12volts that shouldn't, also some of the dash indicators stay on even with the car shut off and the key out. Also you can turn everything on without the key in so I have to disconnect the battery when Im not working on the car. Me and my father who has been a electrician for 30 years will be working on it and when he finds the problem I will let everyone know. Thanks for all the help, if you have any advise or suggestion please tell me. Thanks!!!