Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

[prodsm]

All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.



I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks

 

[hazmat6135]

the batt might read 12 until you put it under load. give it a jump or trickle charge it and try again. it just sounds like a dead battery issue

 

[concept4g63]

^^^^^ he's right check that out ! It has to be a battery, starter is fine if it clicks, just means not enough power

 

[obsidian]

Bump for updates!

 

[djailer]

97 GST, MT - I think this is similar, but different than most of the other posts. I did not rebuild my engine/tranny. My starter has been giving me fits for a while....sometimes it would just click when I turned it over but after between 3 and 20+ clicks it would usually kick in. I read a lot of posts here and did some basic follow-the-dots troubleshooting. Battery is new, good voltage, positive cable has 24/7 12v at the starter, ignition wire has 12 volts when the key is turned. I jumped the starter relay (blk/red to blk/yel). Still had to get past the occasional click, click, etc. before it would start OK. I figured that since power was getting to the starter that it must be bad.

I got an Autozone starter and stuck it in. I found the part # myself and confirmed it is for the MT. They only list three different starters. As soon as the engine started I got this nasty grinding noise which continued while the engine ran (very briefly!!!). It does it every time it starts and still have to get past the off/on click problem - guess I didn't solve that after all. After repeating the test a few times I don't want to run it any more and chance messing up the flywheel. I took it back out and took both the new one and my old one back to AZ. They benched both and said they were fine. I put the new one back in....same grindage. I've read posts that suggest shims and others that suggest AZ is not a very quality product.

Starter mount bolts are torqued to spec - 20-25. I peeked at the flywheel...the teeth I could see where fine.

So, take it back and get a replacement, get shims, or????? any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Doug

I noticed one additional thing. When I compression started - or even tried but didn't get enough to turn it over - often the starter would kick right in and work fine immediately afterwards. I found I could even roll it a few feet in 3rd gear and the starter would work. I've seen posts suggesting the cam/crank angle sensor might not let the engine start but could one or both be intermittent like this? What else would cause the starter not to kick over depending on the rotation point of the engine.

 

[LKWTSI]

Unplug the resistor pack when checking continuity from injector clip to ECU connector.

Just to be clear, you are unplugging the harness from the ECU when checking continuity correct? Not just sliding the meter lead in the back of the ECU connector, I hope. If you are testing continuity with the ECU plugged in, unplug the ECU and then check continuity. If this is the case, doing it this way will narrow your testing down to JUST the wiring harness.

Yes on the ECU plug and will do on the resistor pack. Will try that before I cut the clips off. I'm heading back to work for 4 days on Friday and I might not get to it this afternoon, but at least I'll have the weekend to think about it

I'll try and post back here shortly, with the results of the new test.

**************************************************************

OK tested the connections with the resistor plugged in and out and all 4 show continuity plugged in and NO continuity when the resistor pack is unplugged? I cut back the #1 injector and same results. SO I am stumped right now. I guess I have the weekend to come up with something and next week try and get my hands on some 2G plugs.

keep the ideas coming, thanks.

 

[kchaazz]

Do you have a logger that you can use to pull error codes? Reason I ask is that if a sensor (cas, etc) is at fault, the ecu will usually list it. One thing I will mention is, on 90 models only, though it is hard to do, I have seen a guy accidently plug the resistor pack into wrong plug. (I dont remember which plug fits, might have been either the ISC, or TPS) Check that?? Also, did you look at the pins in the replacement injector plugs? Sometimes they are a bit nasty, barring a good connection ( I pack them with dielectric grease to facilitate a good connection). You said the fuel pump relay kicks on when you crank and you can hear your pump, which is good, but Id try swapping the cas for a sec if youve got an extra, cause a 1G ECU wont fire the pump unless it is seeing ignition references from the appropriate sensors, and perhaps the cas is sending enough signal for the ECU to fire the pump, but not enough to fire the injectors, if that makes sense....

 

[LKWTSI]

Do you have a logger that you can use to pull error codes? Reason I ask is that if a sensor (cas, etc) is at fault, the ecu will usually list it. One thing I will mention is, on 90 models only, though it is hard to do, I have seen a guy accidently plug the resistor pack into wrong plug. (I dont remember which plug fits, might have been either the ISC, or TPS) Check that?? Also, did you look at the pins in the replacement injector plugs? Sometimes they are a bit nasty, barring a good connection ( I pack them with dielectric grease to facilitate a good connection). You said the fuel pump relay kicks on when you crank and you can hear your pump, which is good, but Id try swapping the cas for a sec if youve got an extra, cause a 1G ECU wont fire the pump unless it is seeing ignition references from the appropriate sensors, and perhaps the cas is sending enough signal for the ECU to fire the pump, but not enough to fire the injectors, if that makes sense....

All good points. Yeah I have a logger and need to plug it in and see if anything shows up. I will double check my plug in on the resistor pack, but I didn't pull the harness away to far from the original plugs, but I'll check anyway. I'm gonna look into a second CAS and 2G injector clips and start from there next week. I have to leave for 4 days and won't get to it this weekend.
As for the fuel pump, I have a rewired Wally 255HP. Can someone correct me When the ignition is turned onto "acc" it shouldn't come on, but when I go to Start it will? It's been nearly 2 years since I had this running and I can't recall if the pump is live when in the ACC or only once started. If this is not the case I may have to back track. I can get the pump to run by jumping it at the test connector on the firewall, but when I was doing the CAS test, I was getting 37PSI on my FPR as the hallman slots passed the optical. As soon as the slot passed through the fuel pressure dropped. I assume this correct?

thanks for the input gents.

 

[britdog]

Took it to my buddies shop and they said it was the alternator. So getting that out on today along with a 16g turbo. open o2 dump. and got a 2g ported manifold. Thanks for the help guys

Oh and the battery is getting charged because it wasn't charged

 

[TsiJohn333]

When you turn your car on to "acc" you should be able to hear the fuel pump prime itself.

 

[kchaazz]

All good points. Yeah I have a logger and need to plug it in and see if anything shows up. I will double check my plug in on the resistor pack, but I didn't pull the harness away to far from the original plugs, but I'll check anyway. I'm gonna look into a second CAS and 2G injector clips and start from there next week. I have to leave for 4 days and won't get to it this weekend.
As for the fuel pump, I have a rewired Wally 255HP. Can someone correct me When the ignition is turned onto "acc" it shouldn't come on, but when I go to Start it will? It's been nearly 2 years since I had this running and I can't recall if the pump is live when in the ACC or only once started. If this is not the case I may have to back track. I can get the pump to run by jumping it at the test connector on the firewall, but when I was doing the CAS test, I was getting 37PSI on my FPR as the hallman slots passed the optical. As soon as the slot passed through the fuel pressure dropped. I assume this correct?

thanks for the input gents.

The fuel pump will only come on when the motor is cranking. When you try and crank the engine and let go of the key and it returns to the "on" position, you should hear the pump continue to run for a couple seconds and then kick off. If this isnt happening, the ECU definitely isnt recieving feedback from the cas. One more thing, was the motor backfiring at all during cranking? I ask because in a previous post it was clear that you were mistaken as to the numerical order of the cylinders, and perhaps you could check the plug wires at the coilpack for consistency? Also, when you put the motor at TDC, did you line up the marks on the cas before putting it back in? If not, the cas may be 180 degrees out of phase. Some cars will run like this, but the injectors will not fire at the correct times and you will run lean and I have verified this with a wideband.

When you turn your car on to "acc" you should be able to hear the fuel pump prime itself.

This may be correct for 2G cars, but not a 1G.

 

[gofer]

The resistor pack and ISC connectors can be swapped accidently and being so close to each other its not that hard to do, good point Charlie. They are both identical 6-pin connectors and are located close enough to each other in the engine compartment to be confusing. If you do swap these, the injector resistor pack will get very hot with the key on and the engine won't start. *See Picture Below* Note the black wire with yellow stripe on the connector plugged into the ISC. If you refer to the 1G MFI schematic, you'll see that there is no black wire with yellow stripe on the ISC connector however, there is one on the injector resistor pack connector.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The fuel pump on 1g's or 2g's doesn't get a 12v signal to kick on until you attempt to start the car, unless of course you are using software (ECMLink) or have it hardwired to the ignition switch. Its a safety thing from Mitsu, imagine a car getting in a bad enough accident that a fuel line gets cut and the fuel pump remains on, spraying fuel everywhere with the engine off. Not exactly what I'd consider a good situation to be in, especially if you're trapped in the car.

Hopefully he didn't install the CAS backwards since the link I posted to in #2 showed how to put it back at TDC for the re-install.

 

[LKWTSI]

Thanks for the info.
OK here's what I do know and some stuff is coming back to memory. My pump primes and shuts off, just like it should
I plugged my logger in and no codes BUT the only reading I wasn't sure of and all the others looked correct, was the ISC steps. It said 109 steps, which I don't know if is normal and what the counts should be. All I know is the ISC counts steps to show appropriate operation.
The ISC and resistor plugs are correct, I had at one point a late 1G ISC without the pig tail cut in and I rewired the ISC wires to put the original ISC back on.
So I know they are plugged in correctly
Now the CAS failed noid and squirt test to open circuit to injectors. I cycled the CAS with 'ign on' and the 4 outer slots energize the fuel pump and I get appropriate fuel pressure, but my understanding is the inner slots signal TDC, so they should have no bearing (in this test) to the opening of the injectors.

Based on the weird continuity check from the ECU to injector clips I have to assume: I have a bad CAS or ISC due to the fact that the opposite side of the injector plug is supposed to get a feed from there.

Sadly I'm going to have to walk away from this issue until Tues next week, when I get back. But if you guys come up with any more ideas, I'm all ears.

p.s. I checked the firing order and it's correct and to answer the question..NO not even a hint of fire or misfire

Thanks

 

[99eclipse420]

The battery is 4 days old and the car started fine before, I took the starter off, I tried to turn the crank by hand, will not turn what so ever. Im guessing that I torqued one of the rod caps down too much. I have already drained the oil im about to drop the pan and re torque the bolts. I took the starter to get it tested and it tested fine, no grinding or anything so the crank is locked up, im guessing to a over torqued rod cap.

 

[JOLTY TacoMan]

I was on the way to a meet with some buddies when we stopped in a bank parking lot to regroup, I shut my car off for a brief moment so we could talk. When I tried to restart it after we were done talking it would just click. We continued to the meet and needless to say it was quite embarrissing push starting my car when we left. It roll starts just fine but wont turn over by itself. It makes the same noise clutch in or clutch out when I try and start it. Im assuming its the starter but wanted to get conformation before I go buy a new one. Heres a video to show you the sound its making.

Starter Problem - YouTube

Also, forgot to include about 2 weeks ago I was at my friends house and the starter would grind bad and not start the car, when I went and got my friend to take a look at it with me, it started right up no problem

 

[Ricardo18]

Starter isnt getting enough juice. Check your ground & power connections. Sounds like a loose wire. That or you are in need of a new battery.

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

I really couldn't hear the clicking in the video, but if it's a rapid clicking for as long as you're holding the key in the start position it's most likely a bad connection, or a bad battery. If it clicks just once when you turn the key to start, then that's usually the sign of a bad starter.

 

[JOLTY TacoMan]

It clicks a few times when I stop holding the key in the start position. Ill check battery connections tomorrow

 

[tmaxx411]

cap rotor and wires are all new. its running well now. just gotta figure out the MAF issue and im all set

 

[DSM1G90]

just gotta figure out the MAF issue

Have you checked the resistance across terminals 6 and 8 in normal temperature where the resistance should be around 3.5 to 5K ohms?

 

[Rich55]

Hi, borrowing a friends 98 eclipse..Was driving home the other day and the car was low on fuel so while going down a big hill on highway i through it in neutral and shut it off and when i went to turn it back on as it was slowing down nothing..Had AAA tow it and now when i turn ignition its as thought the car is in gear or something and it wont start..Batery is fine..Tried starting in park and [email protected]

 

[turbodude]

hmmm, that's interesting. Seems kinda unsafe to turn your car off while cruising down the road at speed, . I've put it in neutral before as most people do, but never shut it off while coasting. Per the Chilton manual, I know if your friends car was an AWD it recommends you leave the key in the ACC position while towing on all 4 wheels with car in neutral, which is basically what you were doing. If you shut the ignition off completely this may have caused a problem.

 

[jpmxrider489]

Check the starter. That might be a problem.

 

[Ricardo18]

There's this little issue with these cars, that I've noticed. If you shut the car down while in motion, and have trouble restarting...remove the key, wait a few seconds and THEN attempt a restart, it should start up. (happened a couple times with me)

That said, if that's not the issue, I'm not sure what to tell you. I don't key off, I have a shutdown switch that I push as I push the clutch in. I then bump start by putting it in gear and let the clutch out BRIEFLY to spin the motor. Once it starts I engage the gears and repeat.

 

[zedicus]

does the starter sylonoid engage? any sounds at all when the key is turned over?

i can't see turning the engine off while moving causing a no start no crank issue.

 

[marcman804]

Yeah somehow this thread ended up being 2 separate threads. The problem was the started wasn't installed correctly and the power wire didnt have a good connection. Thanks for all your help