Starting issues - No / Doesn't / Won't Start - MERGED

[prodsm]

All "my car won't start" discussion threads are merged HERE. We've basically made it easier for those who insist upon not searching by grouping together all threads from those with similar issues so you can just scroll through and see some possible solutions. To search for info within this thread, use the "Search This Thread" feature in the black bar about 3" above what you're reading right now.

Could be anything from a loose battery terminal to internal engine damage, and literally everything in between which may involve the electrical, fuel, and ignition system...possibly even something that you screwed up while working on the car yourself. While it's unlikely we're going to diagnose and solve your problem over the internet, feel free to discuss any possible solutions.



I live in Canada and right now its not very warm out, about -30c
my car does not have a block heater too keep it warm.

I tryed to start my car this morning and it wouldent start, ive had this problem before but this time, the car doesnt crank at all it just makes a sound that sounds like an electric drill.

Whats wrong.

Thanks

 

[gofer]

As you look at the engine the cylinders sit

[fuel enters] --> 4, 3, 2, 1 ---> [FPR]​

 

[LKWTSI]

As you look at the engine the cylinders sit

[fuel enters] --> 4, 3, 2, 1 ---> [FPR]​

:


My bad.. I knew that! I'm chasing my tail right now and wasn't thinking straight.

Anyway, did like you said and pulled the fuel rail and spun the CAS and nothing!!

Not one injector squirts. SO. could I have screwed up my caps that bad? if the CAS signal is trying to do something, based on the fact I get fuel pressure at the correct gaps in the sequence, then surely the CAS is doing ok and something else is messed up?

Before I start pulling my cap wires back can you think of anything else to check that may cause a dead injector, keeping in mind the resistor pack in the same one that was working before the engine build as with the injectors and ECU. I did ohms check on them and ran the MPI through its check and all was good.

Thanks for the help here Gofer.

PS. good spark on all 4.

 

[gofer]

Test the resistor pack.

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If it checks good then turn the key to ON test the voltage at the injector clips, there should be 12v on one pin and a positive voltage to the other which I believe is 2.3v IIRC.

 

[LKWTSI]

Did the ohms check on the resistor pack and came up good.

Now the weird part. I did the clip check and I got 12.2v on all clips and where you said I should get minimal volts on the opposite pin I'm getting 12.2v, as well.

So this doesn't sound right so I'm going to go see if I can find a noid light. But at this point I'm assuming it's my wiring for the clips.

Is there any difference in the clips from turbo v's non turbo or year difference?

these were gotten of another DSM at the salvage yard. They are in great condition and had the clips and everything. But now I'm curious as to the validity of them.

thanks for the help.
**************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************


OK got a noid light and all 4 injectors failed to light up

So I pulled the ECU and opened it up and nothing bad in side. The simple fact is that the only thing that I can be assured of is that everything worked before I rebuilt the engine. The only 2 things I did that could cause this are the CAS mod, but I think I have proved it's working as it should and the clip redo. Now unless I completely hosed the soldering job, which I don't see how? They should be working. I have done soldering work before and I heat shrunk the joint and then wrapped them and called it good.

What else can I possible test as far as the ECU pins? is there a way to check the ECU pin. I'm clutching at straws right now, as I think this is the problem, but other than cutting the clips and buying brand new ones I'm stuck.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Buying new clips doesnt sound like the problem there, igniton transistor any good. i have 3, i always grab stuff at the local upull it, just in case.

 

[LKWTSI]

Buying new clips doesnt sound like the problem there, igniton transistor any good. i have 3, i always grab stuff at the local upull it, just in case.

ignition transistor? haven't checked that yet. I have done the injector resistor and MPI and CAS and injector clips. I'm in the process of trying to find out if I can run a continuity check between the ECU plug and the injector clip, without applying power to the system. I'll look into the transistor, but I'm getting good spark at the plug, just NO power at the injectors.

No I'll go look up the test for the transistor again

 

[gofer]

The IGNITION power transistor isn't going to help pulse the FUEL injectors, thats two seperate systems and you're getting spark.

Thats great you found 1g injector plugs with the clips but why don't you go to the junkyard and cut some 2g clips and use them, they click on rather than relying on the metal POS? Check for continuity from the injector plug to the ECU connector, below is a pinout for you.

ECU Pin 51 -- YEL/BLU -- Inj #1
ECU Pin 52 -- YEL/BLK -- Inj #2
ECU Pin 60 -- L. GRN -- Inj #3
ECU Pin 61 -- L. GRN/WHT -- Inj #4​

1g ECU Pinout

Don't forget that just because there is continuity it doesn't mean that the ECU and the harness are making a good connection when its plugged in. I have a friend with a 1g and he was having Inj #2 issues and everything checked good, what we found was that when we plugged the harness into the ECU pin 52 was getting pushed in.

I'm not 100% sure about the second voltage on the injector plugs, for sure one is 12v though, I'll verify it on my DSM when I get home from work. Hopefully you find something before then...

 

[ColtiXim]

Use a ammeter on your positiv wire from the battery and remove your fuse one by one.
You could find easily the fault electrical circuit...
This is my best think !

 

[LKWTSI]

I appreciated the input on the Transistor and thought the same thing, but wasn't ruling out anything.

As for your info on the pin outs.. I just came in from doing exactly that. Let me first say, that I'm pretty good at reading schematics and from the DSM manual, I got the impression that the end of the clip has 2 wires going to it one straight from the ECU and the second is getting a feed from 60/61 through the ISC to the red wire then through the resistor and then to the injector.

I did a continuity check for the ECU to the injectors and started with #1 and got a good check, I wanted to clear my head of any doubt and took the tester and touched the #2 and got the same result and on #3 & 4. WTF Nothing on the resistor side, so I pinned #2 in the ECU and did the same check and all 4 injectors that should be separate lines going to 4 pins on the ECU all send a continuity check no matter what pin on the clip I check.

So now I'm totally stumped. I will try and do what you said about the clips from a 2G and re solder them and see if I can get a different result.

I just reread this..to be clear! I pin 51 to the yel/blu side of the clip and get good continuity. If I take yel/blk or L.grn or L.grn/wht and still touching pin 51 I get continuity!! same goes if I swap pin 51 for 52 and touch off the clip ends. does that make sense. Nothing on the resistor sides.

 

[mx730md]

look to by a car for driving to work and saw a 1992 talon that looked sharp but he says it trys to start but wont .. he said it could just need a tune.. The previous owner put a dsm link in it and tried to retune the stock turbo and I think it just needs to be returned to factory tune

if i were to go and look at it is this something easy to fix or be sure that is what it is before i hand over the cash?

also what kind of mpg do the 1g talon tsi 5 speed get? i use to have a auto 2g gst but i think i only got about 20mpg in town. want a car that get good mpg and fun to drive. i have a f-250 diesel now with at least 400hp and 750tq at the wheel so i like my power but at $4 a gallon at 17-18mpg it cost alot more then a car to run

thanks

 

[ColtiXim]

Have you spark and fuel ?

Dont buy a modified DSM if you like a economical car

 

[daneatsv8s]

If everything is completely stock, you should be able to swap a stock ECU chip in it in place of the DSMlink chip that is currently there. Or, you could pick up a non-EPROM ECU and swap it directly in there.

Sadly, the Talon TSI likely won't do much better than your diesel truck if you're able to get 17-18 mpg at $4 a gallon.

 

[mx730md]

i havent looked at it yet its about an hour away.

do you need to run premium gas with the 1g? with my old gst it was recommended to run premium so i assume the older one is also since it still turbo.

is this dsm thing like a piggyback computer or something that is still there? on my truck its programed you just plug in a programer and it rewrites the ecu is that the same as this or is it


this is what the ad says

"I have a 92 eagle talon tsi for sale. I bought this car as a project and am not going to be able to do anything with it. It may just need a tune. The previous owner put a dsm link in it and tried to retune the stock turbo and I think it just needs to be returned to factory tune. It comes with another turbo from an evo that you may be able to use or sell. Also has aftermarket piping that gies with it. Project or parts car. Has duel exhaust and molded body kit also wheels and tires. Any other questions call or text. I will get back to you as soon as I get it. "

its a sharp looking car. so these dont do much better then 18mpg ?

 

[ColtiXim]

Best thing is download a stock map from ECMlinK and burn your ECU with !

 

[gofer]

Yeah, I'm looking at a wiring diagram right now and there shouldn't be continuity between the harness coming from the ECU (51, 52, 60, 61) going to the injector clips. When you resoldered the newer 1g injector clips in how far down into the harness did you go? You may cut it back to the solder points and then recheck continuity from the exposed wires to their connections at the ECU.

Strange. At least you know where to start digging so you can get that car to start.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Well you have a good start thats a plus.

 

[LKWTSI]

Yeah, I'm looking at a wiring diagram right now and there shouldn't be continuity between the harness coming from the ECU (51, 52, 60, 61) going to the injector clips. When you resoldered the newer 1g injector clips in how far down into the harness did you go? You may cut it back to the solder points and then recheck continuity from the exposed wires to their connections at the ECU.

Strange. At least you know where to start digging so you can get that car to start.

Yeah I will try cutting back and see what I get

As far as how far I cut back I cut about 4 inches from the clips and soldered in one at a time so I didn't cross wires etc.

Just so I'm clear though, I should get a good continuity from each of the 4 pins on the ECU harness end to the appropriate pin end on the injector clip.correct? I ask because I'm looking at my diagram and from the ECU pins it shows a direct line to the injector clip. On the other side it shows it going to the resistor pack then ALL 4 come out as the 'red' wire that goes to pin 2 on the ISC which ties to pin 1 & 3 and goes back to pin 68 & 69 on ECU.

I don't know how to copy PDF into my posts, so I can't show you my diagram, but it's a DSM schematic. Anyway, I'll cut the connectors off and try again and post the results tomorrow sometime.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[DSM1G90]

it would go back and forth between the correct firing order working and not working. correct is 1342 from the bottom, clockwise

ODD, definitely ODD! Never heard of such a thing-going back between the correct 1342 and this 2134 .. and I've dealth with V8's with eight wires along with points and condensors.

You take the rocker cover off and you can clearly see which set of cam lobes that are doing their job in the 1342 order .. and they can't just go to another firing order.

Bet you need new plug wires. There is a thing called 'cross firing' were the one wire that is firing laying next to the one that needs to fire next, will cause that wire to fire that plug (called 'field induction') - why you have the separaters coming from DIST to plugs to keep the wires as separated as possible.

Also, this 'cross firing' can be happening under the cap itself. A spark following a carbon trace under the cap heading to the nearest post and firing that plug.

Time for a new cap, rotor and plug wires.

DSM

 

[gofer]

Unplug the resistor pack when checking continuity from injector clip to ECU connector.

Just to be clear, you are unplugging the harness from the ECU when checking continuity correct? Not just sliding the meter lead in the back of the ECU connector, I hope. If you are testing continuity with the ECU plugged in, unplug the ECU and then check continuity. If this is the case, doing it this way will narrow your testing down to JUST the wiring harness.

 

[99eclipse420]

Today I changed my rod bearings and the radiator now my car wont start????
I took the starter and exhaust, oil pan off and began to replace the rod bearings, did everything to spec and replaced the radiator added new oil and coolant, now car does not start. Turn the key and all I get is a click, tested the battery and starter both are at 12.4 v. So I took the starter off made sure there was no dirt or anything and put it back on every thing is grounded properly.

 

[90 Talon AWD]

did you bench test the starter?

 

[99eclipse420]

The starter worked fine 12 hrs ago, with no hesitation what so ever.

 

[evileagleawd]

turn the motor over by hand make sure there is no binding!!!

 

[99eclipse420]

The motor was turning fine when I changed the bearings, I turned the motor by hand to rotate the crank so I could check/change the other rods. Im at a loss right now everything worked fine yesterday except for the one of the bearings being spun and I had a small leak coming from the radiator.

 

[hazmat6135]

as far as mpg a properly tuned car can still get 30mpg on the highway and 25 in town that is until you put ## foot down. thats the nice thing about turbo's. power when you need it and a 4cylinder when you dont.. but as far as the not starting i would just take a noneprom ecu with ya and swap it out with the comp thats in it. itll take ten in and if it starts great. if not you prob have a diff prob.