SOLID front/rear aluminum motor mounts!

[blcknspo0ln]

I guess I live in a different world. I have a toy and a daily driver. So it is no big deal for me to pull my mounts if I had to. That is all I get from people. Well "if" I can find some mounts I would love this. If you want them you will make and effort for them. So no simpathy from me that you can't take care of business. If I want something for my car, my wife, or anything for the matter, I am going to make every effort I can for it. I usually don't half ass and blow smoke up people's ass. But not everyone can be like me. We have four cars and there is only two of us. Once we started making big power and breaking stuff, we learned long ago that a dsm cannot be the only vechicle.

And for the record there are currently four sets of mounts down at the shop getting worked on. So yea, this is still going on.

Steven

Stop fighting, you sissy's Although I do agree. I wanted these mounts bad and I searched for quite a while before I got my hands on a set. If anyone needs a spare 2g rear mount, I have one from when I switched (my front one was donated to a good cause ). Just find someone parting out a 2g, i'm sure they'll gladly get rid of them!

 

[DSMunknown]

I asked kiggly about what he uses in his FWD dragster.

No, I'm running rubber mounts at 3 points and one mount off a spherical. I'd be afraid of breaking the block with solid aluminum mounts. I would be very surprised if any block mounting bosses lived through tire shake with solid mounts.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm not running 700+whp. So I'm not worried about as much instant torque surge. Kiggly has gone where no FWD has gone. So I expect more than one issue he would be concerned about to be what no one else should worry about.

I welded my mounts several years ago. My daily driver powered by a 60-1 and now a holset, both showing over 40lbs/min and with suspension mods that cause the front tires to dig on accel (lowered rear joint by 2.2" on the lower A arm) has seen no signs of damage. CG lowered 1.9". Stiffened rear springs. It's fine for 4-500whp, 4K studderbox, NLTS, a heated 6 puck clutch, and drag radials.

 

[DSMunknown]

Any other thoughts on having four solids for the DD?

 

[dsm-onster]

Me? . . . Shifts better. Snappy response with the laggy 60-1. I can launch at a higher rpm. Vibrations aren't that bad at all. I have both b-shafts, though.

 

[SonySlave]

Biglady has e-mail!

 

[allgripnoslip]

Just received mine yesterday!

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[DSMunknown]

Installed mine today. Took it out for a drive.

As far as Romeen's statement of a "racecar" feel, that was not my experience. There is hardly any increase in cabin vibration. Noticeable, yes. Overwhelming, no. Screws aren't backing themselves out, change isn't jiggling all over the place, and there's no hint of me having an orgasm due to vibration. I think Romeen was just having a "ricer" post and may have been overly excited about the modification. I'm pretty neutral on the subject.

Perhaps I'm not experiencing the same/similar thing because I still have the OEM side mounts in. They won't be there too much longer, but they're in there for now.

Idle is where I see the most vibration. After 10-15MPH in 1st, I don't much notice the vibrations. Something I will definitely get used to, in a very neutral sense.

I wasn't able to open her up all the way, but I will very soon. When I took the car out earlier this week, one of my oil return line bolts blew off, so there's oil spitting everywhere. Thought I blew Tiny Tim. Guess not. So I'm trying to take it easy for now.

A good mod? Sure. The best eva? Doesn't top my list.

 

[DSMunknown]

I would like to extend two how-to guides in relation to this modification. Someone say please?


#1

Hey Anthony. I don't even have an engine hoist. I used two scissor (screw type) jacks: one under the oil pan and one under the tranny bell housing. Used a block of wood on top of each jack to distribute the weight over a wider area. Used two jacks just so there wouldn't be as much weight on one area although you can do just the oil pan if it is going to be like that for a day or less. You really don't have to lift the engine all that much. You just want to relieve some of the weight. You'll know when you have it right because the cross bolts can be easily removed by hand. Lift a little/lower a little until the bolt feels loose and just comes right out by hand.

The front one is very easy and self explanatory when you look at it. The rear mount can be a bi***! I had removed/replaced them before so it wasn't too bad this time. But that rear one kicked my ass the first time. You need to remove battery and tray, probably EVAP, shifter cable bracket (bolts to top of bell housing) and free the cable end links from the shifter linkage. This is because the cables exit the firewall and run over the top of the rear mount and you cannot pull the mount up and out unless these are out of the way. I also ended up loosening the bracket that holds the fuel filter. The cross bolt that runs through the mount itself and a single bolt attaching mount base plate to frame (passenger side of mount base plate) can be accessed by working from the passenger side of the car where the battery and tray were. There are also 2 bolts connecting mount base to frame on the drivers side which I accessed from underneath the car . Had to lay underneath, then reach my hand up and back (contortionist move) and remove those 2 blindly by feel alone. I suppose if you are tall enough with long arms that you could do the whole thing from above. All this will make more sense once you get into it. CAUTION: The shifter cable bracket that bolts to bell housing has two bushings per bolt--one between bolt head and bracket and one between bracket and bell housing. Don't lose that second one when you pull the bolt out. The rubber portion of the bushing will usually cause it to stick to the bracket and you won't even know it's there at first but it can fall off later and you would never know it. If you have any questions once you get into it just let me know.

As for the vibrations. If you have been running stock mounts (no inserts or filler) then the increase in vibrations will seem pretty harsh at first. If you have ever experienced poly mounts then it shouldn't be shocking. Compared to polys, the idle actually seems smoother but there are slightly more vibrations throughout the rest of the rpm range. I won't lie, when I first let the clutch out from a dead stop the car shakes pretty hard. I also have a 2600 which are known to chatter. With the aluminum mounts the entire car will shake and the interior panels will vibrate pretty loudly for that brief second. After you get going it's really not bad and you quickly get used to it. The first time I started the car after the install it caught me off guard. Turning the engine over you feel a harshness from the starter engaging. I actually like it now. A friend said the same thing that I had been feeling. When I start the car now it feels like some powerful force coming to life. I know that sounds cheesy but it's true. It just feels really powerful.

#2

Just got finished installing Brian’s [snowborder714] motor mounts. Summary – it’s easy.

The front mount is obviously easy – 2 bolts through the crossmember and the one bolt through the mount. Use a jack with a piece of wood under the transmission to take the load off the mount. Piece of cake.

We took out the battery, battery tray, and the battery support that bolts to the frame. Loosen the three bolts on the rear mount. (The bolt on the passenger side is a tight fit with the socket but it will work.) Brian’s were so tight I couldn’t loosen them with a ratchet+3 inch extension+socket, so we used breaker bar+20 inch extension +socket. Yes, a 20 inch extension – works amazing. Then you take the nut off the bolt that passes through the mount. Get the jack under the transmission and raise/lower it as needed until you can tap the bolt out. Then remove the 3 mounting bolts completely. I know romeen said he had to remove the shifter cable bracket, fuel filter stuff, etc. but we didn’t mess with any of that. Once the mount is free keep adjusting the jack higher or lower until you can wiggle it out. You take the rear mount and “rotate” it in place so the part that used to sit on the subframe is now pointing up and it will come right out then. Installation is reverse of the removal process. BTW, we did all of this from above the car.

We didn’t get to drive the car with them in yet because we need to get a new stud to reinstall the cas. One of them got messed up while we were changing the cas o-ring yesterday. The whole process from start to finish took about 3 hours. We also moved his mbc source to the intake manifold so that took about an hour.

I used the second guide. Finished the rear mount removal and installation in about 1.5 hours. I highly recommend Eric's and Brian's guide.

 

[Gamble97]

If i can get my hands on an extra mount, I'm down for changing my front one out. Not sure if I want to do the rear or not.

 

[DSMunknown]

Steven, are we allowed to call these mounts the "Biglady mod?"

"I was getting a lot of wheel hop, until I did the Biglady mod."


Just a thought.

Believe I'm the first one to use this in my profile! Sweet.

Definitely more of a "Drivetrain Mod" more than anything else.

 

[romeen]

As far as Romeen's statement of a "racecar" feel, that was not my experience. There is hardly any increase in cabin vibration. Noticeable, yes. Overwhelming, no. Screws aren't backing themselves out, change isn't jiggling all over the place, and there's no hint of me having an orgasm due to vibration. I think Romeen was just having a "ricer" post and may have been overly excited about the modification. I'm pretty neutral on the subject.

Ouch dude.

Anyway, I'm glad you got them installed without any problems.

I think you're right with regards to the unmodified side mounts. As I had stated earlier in this thread when I filled in the side mounts with Windo-Weld is when I noticed a big increase in the vibrations at idle. When you do those is when you will most likely get the most vibrations.

Just for clarification, I had said earlier in this thread and in the PM that vibrations were actually smoother at idle and only "slightly more" throughout the rpm band. It is only during clutch disengagement with my ACT 2600 (which are know to chatter) that I get momentary, harsh shaking.

As far as the performance results not being what you anticipated I think it may have to do with the relatively fewer mods you have compared to some of the other guys who are running them. Most likely once you step up to a bigger (i.e.-real) turbo and crank up the boost is when the solid mounts will shine. Same goes for suspension and brakes. The more performance mods you have the more the solid mounts should enhance the cars performance.

 

[DSMunknown]

Guess I'm gonna be post #89's guinea pig.

As far a shifting goes, I see zero difference or improvement. I have the B&M short shifter, ES shifter bushings, and skateboard shifter linkage bushings installed. The stick (and engagement) feels the exact same.

There are a couple other points I want to hit on, but that can wait until I've done a little bit more testing and see exactly what I'm experiencing at what time.

 

[biglady112]

Anthony. My car felt no different other than the initial vibration like you noticed. My car was already set up with properly aligned shifter, shifter bolted to the floor with big washers and dsmparts.com brass bushings in the end of the shifter cables.

However, in my car I lowered the tire pressure and went out and tried to two step/antilar launch the car. THERE WAS ZERO WHEEL HOP. I did not go anywhere as the tires just blew off, but no more wheel hop. My car weighs 2170lbs now and I cannot spin the tires with a 16g to save my life. My friend with his 50 trim went from starting to get traction in fourth, to dead hooking at the top of second from a first gear roll now. Our cars are set up exactly the same. Cables, bushings, bolted to the floor and such.

If your car is stock and you put these in, you will see a lot more improvement than with a car that has some good thought and craftsmanship behind it.

And the fact that you are FWD will be more beneficial than you might imagine. At least the 10 plus sets of mounts we have produced.

Steven

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Well, i'll report back too. I was having a bit of trouble keeping traction off the line, but no longer is the issue I used to spin 1st @ 5500 rpm stutterbox with antilag, but she holds just fine now.

Another big thing I've noticed with the 'biglday' mod is the ease of engagement. To exxagerate what I'm talking about, simply get in your car, get to 2nd gear @ 20mph and push the clutch in, shift to 3rd and just pop the clutch. Before the mod, the car would 'clunk' into place and the car had a grandeur sloppiness to it. After the mod, popping the clutch like that (as if one would be racing) leaves ZERO clunking and definitely a smoother engagement. I absolutely have to say that is because the motor is no longer chucking around in the bay as if it was before. Even for daily driving conditions, I no longer have to feather the clutch to seek that smooth shifting feeling (kind of like how you want to drive when grandma is in the car) , the car does it on it's own now and even though I'm saving fractions of a second, the driveability has increased.

Overall, Anthony, For the miniscule amount of money this mod is, it far outweighs its cost vs. benefit against the standard prothane inserts. Those things seem like a waste of money after moving to the solid mounts.

 

[Freerevving]

sorry this is a little off topic, but, does anyone make stiff rubber mounts?

I've seen some solid poly mounts, and poly inserts... but I want rubber, just NOT stock

stock rubber mounts (i'm guessing) are probably 30 shore, maybe softer. I would love some 85 shore rubber mounts

thanks --Mac

 

[snowborder714]

I got mine on Friday and had them installed in less than 2 hours.

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I haven't had a chance to drive with them in yet though. I will post back once I've had some time behind the wheel. I had told Steven I was going to the drag strip today, but now I'm having problems with timing the car.

Here's the method we used to get the rear mount out easily. It's mentioned in the 2nd how-to guide that Anthony posted by turbosax2.

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[AndrewD5418]

sorry this is a little off topic, but, does anyone make stiff rubber mounts?

I've seen some solid poly mounts, and poly inserts... but I want rubber, just NOT stock

stock rubber mounts (i'm guessing) are probably 30 shore, maybe softer. I would love some 85 shore rubber mounts

thanks --Mac

Poly is fine... They last a long time and are pretty stiff.

These wont be made for 1g will they?

 

[Freerevving]

Poly is fine... They last a long time and are pretty stiff.

These wont be made for 1g will they?

it's just that I don't like the vibration from poly... and poly has the tendency to peel and split after long term abuse... Maybe I'll use poly in the front, but not near the rear

 

[DSMunknown]

Overall, Anthony, For the miniscule amount of money this mod is, it far outweighs its cost vs. benefit against the standard prothane inserts. Those things seem like a waste of money after moving to the solid mounts.

The price is a phenomenal plus. I can't ignore that. And the craftsmanship is terrific. Wouldn't dream of arguing either of those points. Remember, I'm still taking it easy due to the TPS still needing adjustment, fixing an oil leak, and really shitty all season tires (not only are they far below performance par, three out of the four leak like CRAZY). I haven't stomped on it yet in 1st, haven't tested for wheelhop (or lack there of), and aren't smokin'em up (yet). Just give me a bit more time to do some personal testing. Besides, the tires I have now (post 54) aren't worthy of being compared with high performance rubber. I'll experience more traction issues than those that run stickier tires.

Tom, give me your thoughts on post #86 and #94. I'm interested to hear what people have to say with those two posts in mind.

 

[biglady112]

Morpherex- we have made them now for CSM's, 1G AWD, 1G FWD, 2G AWD, 2G FWD and a set of 420A mounts. As long as some one sends mounts and cash, they will keep doing them. I believe we are over 20 sets now. I would not be opposed to other makes and models either.

Steven

 

[mnetwork]

Can't wait to install mine! I'll post up as soon as I do...

 

[Auto RS T]

The price is a phenomenal plus. I can't ignore that. And the craftsmanship is terrific. Wouldn't dream of arguing either of those points. Remember, I'm still taking it easy due to the TPS still needing adjustment, fixing an oil leak, and really shitty all season tires (not only are they far below performance par, three out of the four leak like CRAZY). I haven't stomped on it yet in 1st, haven't tested for wheelhop (or lack there of), and aren't smokin'em up (yet). Just give me a bit more time to do some personal testing. Besides, the tires I have now (post 54) aren't worthy of being compared with high performance rubber. I'll experience more traction issues than those that run stickier tires.

Tom, give me your thoughts on post #86 and #94. I'm interested to hear what people have to say with those two posts in mind.

Well Anthony, I think the best thing to do here is figure out what kind of condition your towers are in before you go mounting all 4 up solidly. Clean off any surface rust etc. to prevent the towers from rusting in the future. If they are in bad shape repair and brace them.

This may sound funny, but I would give the towers a couple whacks with a rubber mallet or something of the like to see how the tower reacts, metal weak, big hole, etc. Also see if you can push it in or out or deform the metal with your fingers. I don't know what your towers look like so these are some pretty general thoughts.

I would imagine a set of towers in good shape could stand up to the mounts. I also imagine the vibrations would increase a bit more with the sides installed similar to Romeen's filled mounts. I don't really think there will be any more performance gains however. The front and back seem to do most of the work in regards to the motor rolling back and forth.

Install them and see how it feels, if you think it is too harsh on the body you could add some bracing to the towers.

I do have a question about the mounts for those who have some miles on them.

Have the main mount bolt holes held up well? How tight do the bolts fit through the mount holes? Rather snugly? I am wondering if they are going to wallow out after some time with the steel bolt and the mount being softer material, that is all.

 

[romeen]

Have the main mount bolt holes held up well? How tight do the bolts fit through the mount holes? Rather snugly? I am wondering if they are going to wallow out after some time with the steel bolt and the mount being softer material, that is all.

The bolt holes on mine look fine. No rounding of the edges or sign of wearing down. But I only have a few hundred miles on them so I really can't give a fair assessment of how they will hold up in the long run.

The bolt holes are the exact same size as the holes on the oem mounts which as you know are not real snug. This makes for a pretty easy install.

 

[Blindsey]

Biglady112, Email sent.