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1G Several quick questions before attempting AWD manual trans rebuild

XC92

Proven Member
988
186
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
As many here know I've been restoring my sub-78k miles manual trans '92 Talon TSi AWD for some time now, and it's finally time to fix the trans, the main issue being its popping out of 1st gear most of the time. I replaced the clutch last year, with a SBC Stage 2 DD kit, with the intention of fixing the trans while it was out,, but I had to put it back on because the car had to be moved. Now with the weather warm enough to work outside all day and other priorities taken care of, I can finally get to it.

I've done a lot of research into this and continue to do so, here and elsewhere, have the FSM and other guides and have read them back and forth multiple times, etc., so I don't need detailed answers, all of which I'm sure have been asked and answered here many times. Just quick answers to a few questions I'm still a bit confused about. I hope I'm not being too annoying in asking them here. Anyway, here goes.
  1. Since it looks like, aside from maybe also the 1st-2nd shift fork, the cause of the popping out of 1st issue is likely constrained to the intermediate shaft, e.g. worn synchro, keys, slider, hub, gear, etc., do I still need to remove the staked nut on the input shaft? Is it impossible to remove both stacks without removing both staked nuts?
  2. If the 5th speed synchro assembly and/or the 5th speed intermediate gear don't come off by hand, what's the correct way to remove them, a small 2 or 3 jaw puller, or a split bearing splitter and push-pull tool?
  3. When I remove the bottom tapered bearing & sleeve, 1st gear, 1st-2nd slider/hub & 2nd gear off the intermediate shaft, should I put the bearing splitter under 1st or 2nd gear?
  4. Will doing so (properly) make it possible to save and reuse the tapered bearing, assuming it's not already damaged, or should I replace it no matter what?
  5. If I'm able to save and reuse the tapered bearing, do I need to remove the corresponding race, perhaps to adjust the spacing for preload/play?
  6. Even if the cause of the 1st gear popping out is constrained to the 1st-2nd gear intermediate assembly and I see no visible damage elsewhere, are there any other parts that really should be replaced given that I have the trans out and taken apart, as a precaution--aside from gaskets, lock rings, pins, shims, etc., that have to be replaced, of course, along with all the seals? E.g. bearings & races, gears, synchros, springs, etc.
Btw are all or most of these parts still available?

Finally, which of these 1st-2nd hub/slider Mitsubishi part #'s should I get? It seems like some of them also come with a synchro or two?

Hub & Sleeve 1st-2nd OEM MD749414
Hub & Sleeve + Ring 1st-2nd OEM MD746829 (alt # MD742465)
Hub & Sleeve + Rings 1st-2nd OEM MD747643

Sorry for all the questions but I'm almost good to go but for them!
 

XC92

Proven Member
988
186
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
From what I've checked on it's a bit better with lower gears. But I won't know until I've taken it apart and seen what needs to be replaced. Also, parts sites often list parts that are no longer available as in stock. It's happened to me several times. I'm hoping that I'm not stuck with a trans in fairly good condition otherwise and needing a relatively simple fix but with the needed parts unavailable. That would blow.
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
6,910
1,944
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
Call the few dsm specialists and they can sell you parts.

As for your questions.
1. Remove both nuts. No choice.
2. Many methods work. My favorite is a bearing splitter on the flange and whatever type puller you choose to pull on that.
3. After removing the bearing snap ring I put the splitter under 2nd gear and remove the entire thing all at once. 1,2, hub sleeve bearing and all at same time. Yes technically this saves the bearing but likely yiu need to replace it.
4. Same.
5. If you replace bearing yes you replace race.
6. Check all bearings and synchro forks etc.. replace whatever is worn. It's that simple.
 

XC92

Proven Member
988
186
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Any reason to put the splitter under 2nd and not 1st gear since everything under 1st is supposed to just slide out once 1st is out? The FSM says under 1st so I'm just wondering. Is it because 2nd is smaller, allowing the splitter to better fit? Or because sometimes the hub/slider assembly, 2nd gear and synchros don't always just slide out?

Also, I realize that anything else that looks worn needs to be replaced, along with parts that should always be replaced like pins, lock rings, stake nuts and gaskets. But are there any parts that even if they look ok should really be replaced, aside from the bottom intermediate bearing and race, e.g. other bearings & races?

Oh, and I realized that one of my questions above was pointless, about whether I need to remove any races, since obviously I do to measure the correct spacing using the solder method, even for shafts that I didn't take apart or replace anything.

As for that, I can't see any way around having to place at least two separate orders, one for any parts that need to be replaced, and a second for the correct spacers and lock rings once I've installed all these parts and done the solder thing. Is this basically SOP?
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
6,910
1,944
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
You've basically covered all the bases. If I had to guess you are going to need bearings for both shafts. Unless you're really trying to budget consider just replacing all 10 bearings.
 

XC92

Proven Member
988
186
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Ok. If they feel smooth, no binding, grinding or hesitation, and look ok, after under 78k miles of not especially hard driving, should they still be ok?

Replacing all of them isn't just a bit pricey, but a lot of work and introduces potential new issues if I mess up any of the replacements.

Aside from that, why put the splitter under 2nd and not 1st?
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
6,910
1,944
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
Ok. If they feel smooth, no binding, grinding or hesitation, and look ok, after under 78k miles of not especially hard driving, should they still be ok?
Nobody can answer that for you. Bearings only go so many cycles before they fail.
Replacing all of them isn't just a bit pricey, but a lot of work and introduces potential new issues if I mess up any of the replacements.
If you're worried about that you shouldn't be in the trans in the first place.
Aside from that, why put the splitter under 2nd and not 1st?
you have to take it all off anyway. It's just easier.

You can NOT do this on the input shaft without first removing the 5th gear needle bearing race. There is a lock ring under it. Then you can remove 3 and 4.
 

XC92

Proven Member
988
186
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
If you're worried about that you shouldn't be in the trans in the first place.
My point was that I have to replace what obviously needs to be replaced, because it's clearly broken or worn. But precautionary replacements just introduce additional points of potential user error for a newbie like me. But I guess it's a crapshoot either way, so point taken. I'll probably end up replacing only what clearly needs to be replaced and take my chances. At worst I'll have to take it out and open it up again someday.
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
6,910
1,944
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
My point was that I have to replace what obviously needs to be replaced, because it's clearly broken or worn. But precautionary replacements just introduce additional points of potential user error.
No. I don't believe it does. It's remove and replace.
But I guess it's a crapshoot either way for a newbie to this like me, so point taken. I'll probably end up replacing only what clearly needs to be replaced and take my chances. At worst I'll have to take it out and open it up again someday.
If you're competent in using press tools I wouldn't expect any issues. Only thing I can think of is pressing down on a synchro or something. The synchro never receive any pressure during install but they would if they aren't lined up. It will be self explanatory when assembling the stack. Factory manual covers any other gotchas. Sleeve direction, hub direction etc. Keep stuff in order as you disassemble including which way stuff faces. Someparts are not symmetrical although they appear to be.
 

XC92

Proven Member
988
186
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Yeah, maybe I'm just trying to justify being cheap and lazy. That's a lot of bearings to replace on top of the one that probably needs to be replaced because it will be removed, for a relatively low-mileage trans that was never driven too hard.

Then again, this was all with a clutch that probably failed to disengage fully for who knows how many miles until I caught and fixed the clutch pedal slop issue, and with my less than expert driving and shifting skills. So who knows.

When I take it apart I'll have a good look, maybe post some photos, and decide how to proceed. For all I know it's just a bad shift fork or detents or too something off with the free play and preloads and I won't have to take the stacks apart.

Btw, back to the finding parts issue, I know this has been the topic of many discussions in the past, but is there any realistic chance of an aftermarket replacement parts mini-industry popping up specifically for DSMs, given that one, OEM parts are harder and harder to come by since many are no longer being made and are specific to DSMs, and two, DSMs appear to be experiencing a bit of a resurgence of late and there's an increasing need for such parts?

I mean, I assume that automakers are generally no longer making parts for old Corvettes, Mustangs, Corvairs, Thunderbirds, Studebakers, etc., yet enthusiasts are able to restore and maintain them, obviously. Are they able to do this because they're able to fabricate parts or know people who can, or there are thriving mini-industries that make aftermarket replacement parts for these classics? Then why not for DSMs? Have they not yet attained such classic status and there isn't enough of a demand?
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
6,910
1,944
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
Btw, back to the finding parts issue, I know this has been the topic of many discussions in the past, but is there any realistic chance of an aftermarket replacement parts mini-industry popping up specifically for DSMs, given that one, OEM parts are harder and harder to come by since many are no longer being made and are specific to DSMs, and two, DSMs appear to be experiencing a bit of a resurgence of late and there's an increasing need for such parts?

I mean, I assume that automakers are generally no longer making parts for old Corvettes, Mustangs, Corvairs, Thunderbirds, Studebakers, etc., yet enthusiasts are able to restore and maintain them, obviously. Are they able to do this because they're able to fabricate parts or know people who can, or there are thriving mini-industries that make aftermarket replacement parts for these classics? Then why not for DSMs? Have they not yet attained such classic status and there isn't enough of a demand?
Aftermarket "rebuild kits" have been around forever. They will only include basic stuff. Synchro. Bearings etc.

Ex.
 

twicks69

Supporting Vendor
3,855
979
Mar 12, 2004
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Well.....this is like beating a dead horse but whatever.
  1. Since it looks like, aside from maybe also the 1st-2nd shift fork, the cause of the popping out of 1st issue is likely constrained to the intermediate shaft, e.g. worn synchro, keys, slider, hub, gear, etc., do I still need to remove the staked nut on the input shaft? Is it impossible to remove both stacks without removing both staked nuts? Reasons for popping out: Worn 1st gear dog engagement teeth on the gear itself, worn out synchro, worn out synchro keys, worn out 1st/2nd hub and slider, worn out 1/2 shift fork, worn out intermediate shaft bearings. You have to take off the end shaft nuts to remove the 5th gearset and the bearing plate. This is really straight forward; just use a 3/16" straight blade flathead screwdriver and a hammer, pound out the stakes, blow out the stakes with compressed air so you don't get any chunks spinning with the shaft nut that will gall the threads on the shafts, then use your 36mm socket and a 1/2" impact and engage reverse gear and remove the shaft nuts. It is extremely easy.
  2. If the 5th speed synchro assembly and/or the 5th speed intermediate gear don't come off by hand, what's the correct way to remove them, a small 2 or 3 jaw puller, or a split bearing splitter and push-pull tool? Use an OTC1122 bearing splitter with OTC7393 push puller to remove the 5th intermediate gear. For the input shaft, it is as simple as punching out the roll pin with a 3/16" roll pin punch and hammer (since you have a 1G, you will want to punch from the inside pushing out, then take a vise grips and twist out the roll pin. If you go the other direction you will punch the pin into the hub and slider and will get it jammed and have issues removing the shift fork). Then GENTLY, using two prybars you will place them BELOW the 5th gear synchro between the 5th synchro cone and the 5th synchro evenly prying upwards to remove the 5th/Reverse hub and slider assembly. You might need to work it along by prying up gently on the 5th/Rev shift fork too while you are doing it. Once removed, slide off the 5th gear and remove the 5th gear needle bearings. After that, you just have to remove the viscous coupler by removing the snapring, prying up with two prybars evenly to remove the viscous coupler. There will be a 1/4" diameter detent ball in the upper pinion splines of the center diff that retains the output shaft. Use your magnetic pickup tool and remove the detent ball. After that, remove the detent ball plugs (x3), springs (x3), and 11/32" detent balls (x3), the reverse light switch and crush washer (REPLACE THE CRUSH WASHER ON REASSEMBLY, IT DOES MATTER AND WILL CAUSE 5TH/REV SHIFTING ISSUES IF IT IS MISSING OR OVER CRUSHED), and then tap the bearing plate upwards to separate, and use your prybars to remove the bearing plate. After that, it is just removing the reverse lockout switch (19mm head) and crush washer (REPLACE THE CRUSH WASHER ON REASSEMBLY, IT DOES MATTER AND WILL CAUSE 5TH/REV SHIFTING ISSUES IF IT IS MISSING OR OVER CRUSHED), then the reverse idler gear rail retainer bolt (by passenger axle seal side of case, either a TORX or 14mm head, and crush washer. Then remove the main gear cluster case section bolts and then separate the gear cluster case section from the bellhousing. After that is removed, put aside the main case oil guide, and the front differential shim so you don't lose them. The 1/2 and 3/4 fork roll pins are next to remove with your 3/16" roll pin punch and hammer. Then remove the reverse idler gear rail and gear, then remove the two 12mm bolts for the reverse idler lever, remove the lever and key. Now rotate the 5th/Rev shift rail to the right and work that out and up. Then rotate the 3rd/4th rail to the right and out and up with the 5th/Rev rail. Then you will rotate the selector to the right to give more space for the 1/2 rail to rotate to the left of the selector cage and up. Then the two gear clusters and the three rails pull up all at the same time.
  3. When I remove the bottom tapered bearing & sleeve, 1st gear, 1st-2nd slider/hub & 2nd gear off the intermediate shaft, should I put the bearing splitter under 1st or 2nd gear? Remove the intermediate shaft endshaft snap ring, then use either an OTC 1123 or 1130 splitter and place below the 2nd gear and press off 2nd gear, 1/2 hub and slider, 1st gear, 1st needle bearing sleeve and 1st needle bearing all in one push. Then remove the 2nd needle bearing off the shaft. The outer tapered roller bearing can be removed GENTLY with an OTC1123 bearing splitter.
  4. Will doing so (properly) make it possible to save and reuse the tapered bearing, assuming it's not already damaged, or should I replace it no matter what? IT IS A 30 YEAR OLD TRANSMISSION. REPLACE THE INPUT SHAFT AND INTERMEDIATE SHAFT TAPERED ROLLER BEARINGS. PERIOD.
  5. If I'm able to save and reuse the tapered bearing, do I need to remove the corresponding race, perhaps to adjust the spacing for preload/play? In an ideal world you would replace the bearings and re-shim. In a cheap world, replace the bearing and bearing race and reuse the shim in place. You will NEED a slide hammer and bearing race extractor tool like a Miller 9664 (which is what I use).
  6. Even if the cause of the 1st gear popping out is constrained to the 1st-2nd gear intermediate assembly and I see no visible damage elsewhere, are there any other parts that really should be replaced given that I have the trans out and taken apart, as a precaution--aside from gaskets, lock rings, pins, shims, etc., that have to be replaced, of course, along with all the seals? E.g. bearings & races, gears, synchros, springs, etc. You will need to see what you are dealing with when it is all disassembled.
Btw are all or most of these parts still available? Most of the basics are still available, but if you are looking for gears, shafts, 3/4 hub and slider, center diff parts, shift rails, etc you will be totally screwed, or PM'ing me for used replacement parts that I have on the shelf.

Finally, which of these 1st-2nd hub/slider Mitsubishi part #'s should I get? It seems like some of them also come with a synchro or two?

Hub & Sleeve 1st-2nd OEM MD749414 -- This is a bare 1/2 hub and slider (no springs, no keys, no synchros)

See below:

Input Shaft Inner Tapered Roller Bearing MD732314
Input Shaft Outer Tapered Roller Bearing MD726235
Input Shaft Snapring (1.5mm) MD723277
3rd Gear Needle Bearing MD718033 (This bearing also works for 4th gear in replacement of MD749902)
5th Gear Needle Bearing MD719137

Intermediate Shaft Inner Bearing MD726236
Intermediate Shaft Outer Bearing MD736638
1st / 2nd Gear Needle Bearing (1991-1999) MD737652
Intermediate Shaft Snapring (1.5mm) MD703780

Loaded 1/2 Hub and Slider Assembly (thick single synchro 1st with double synchro 2nd) MD747643
Loaded 1/2 Hub and Slider Assembly (2x thick single synchros) MD747637
Bare 1/2 Hub and Slider Assembly MD749414
1st/2nd Hub Springs MD742445
1st/2nd Hub Keys MD742775

1st/2nd Gear Shift Fork AWD MD723439
3rd/4th Gear Shift Fork (90-Early 92) 2-hole MD741558

End Shaft Nut MD731948 x 2
Roll Pins 5.2mm x 26mm MD701722 x 3
Input Shaft Seal MD741818
Front Left Axle Seal MD719710
Front Diff (Right Axle) Oil Seal MD707184
Output Shaft Seal MD723202
Reverse Idler Gear Bolt (Torx) MD749478
Reverse Idler Gear Bolt Washer MD720603
Reverse Wave Spring MD744342
Reverse Switch Washer MF660035
Reverse Lockout Bolt Washer MF660035
Viscous Coupler Snapring (1.5mm) MD720687





 

Mech Addict

Supporting Member
668
245
Jun 9, 2019
Jackson, Wyoming
Not much left to say, as Tim provided a super-detailed answer that will serve other searchers in the future. I would note that the OP included a "BTW; are these parts available?", and that is more than a simple "by the way...." kind of question when it comes to a old AWD transmission. Most of my DSM work now essentially starts with "what parts do I need/ how do I get them/ what else will work?". If I can't get past that, then I move on to something else on the car until I figure out those answers. Only once you get the right parts can you even start to worry about what tools and steps are required for a particular repair. I do agree it is worth asking "do all these parts need replaced?" as the rabbit hole can get very deep. In this case, it sounds like the answer is "yes", replace the bearings, snap rings, etc., as answered by those who know.
Get plenty of photos of this repair. I have no doubt you'll keep us posted.:thumb:
 

XC92

Proven Member
988
186
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Aftermarket "rebuild kits" have been around forever. They will only include basic stuff. Synchro. Bearings etc.

Ex.
Oh, I thought it was either OEM, whether new or used, or custom, which was very expensive. I didn't realize anyone made DSM-specific parts, at least for a trans. I know there are companies that make aftermarket brake and clutch lines and hoses, bushings, etc., but those are kind of generic and some aren't that good, e.g. slave cylinders.
 

pauleyman

DSM Wiseman
6,910
1,944
Nov 19, 2011
oklahoma city, Oklahoma
Oh, I thought it was either OEM, whether new or used, or custom, which was very expensive. I didn't realize anyone made DSM-specific parts, at least for a trans. I know there are companies that make aftermarket brake and clutch lines and hoses, bushings, etc., but those are kind of generic and some aren't that good, e.g. slave cylinders.
I can't speak for the quality of parts, merely that they do exist. As for bearings you could cross reference the oem numbers but I've tried and it wasn't any cheaper. Maybe if you were buying 100s or 1000s. It isn't like mitsu makes bearings. It's koyo or ntn or nsk etc.
Aftermarket kits? Unless specified who knows what you will get.
 

XC92

Proven Member
988
186
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
I can't speak for the quality of parts, merely that they do exist. As for bearings you could cross reference the oem numbers but I've tried and it wasn't any cheaper. Maybe if you were buying 100s or 1000s. It isn't like mitsu makes bearings. It's koyo or ntn or nsk etc.
Aftermarket kits? Unless specified who knows what you will get.
Well, first I'll figure out what actually needs to be replaced, then I'll try to source OEM for as much of it as can be found, then I'll figure out about the rest, if there is a rest.

Well.....this is like beating a dead horse but whatever.
  1. Since it looks like, aside from maybe also the 1st-2nd shift fork, the cause of the popping out of 1st issue is likely constrained to the intermediate shaft, e.g. worn synchro, keys, slider, hub, gear, etc., do I still need to remove the staked nut on the input shaft? Is it impossible to remove both stacks without removing both staked nuts? Reasons for popping out: Worn 1st gear dog engagement teeth on the gear itself, worn out synchro, worn out synchro keys, worn out 1st/2nd hub and slider, worn out 1/2 shift fork, worn out intermediate shaft bearings. You have to take off the end shaft nuts to remove the 5th gearset and the bearing plate. This is really straight forward; just use a 3/16" straight blade flathead screwdriver and a hammer, pound out the stakes, blow out the stakes with compressed air so you don't get any chunks spinning with the shaft nut that will gall the threads on the shafts, then use your 36mm socket and a 1/2" impact and engage reverse gear and remove the shaft nuts. It is extremely easy.
  2. If the 5th speed synchro assembly and/or the 5th speed intermediate gear don't come off by hand, what's the correct way to remove them, a small 2 or 3 jaw puller, or a split bearing splitter and push-pull tool? Use an OTC1122 bearing splitter with OTC7393 push puller to remove the 5th intermediate gear. For the input shaft, it is as simple as punching out the roll pin with a 3/16" roll pin punch and hammer (since you have a 1G, you will want to punch from the inside pushing out, then take a vise grips and twist out the roll pin. If you go the other direction you will punch the pin into the hub and slider and will get it jammed and have issues removing the shift fork). Then GENTLY, using two prybars you will place them BELOW the 5th gear synchro between the 5th synchro cone and the 5th synchro evenly prying upwards to remove the 5th/Reverse hub and slider assembly. You might need to work it along by prying up gently on the 5th/Rev shift fork too while you are doing it. Once removed, slide off the 5th gear and remove the 5th gear needle bearings. After that, you just have to remove the viscous coupler by removing the snapring, prying up with two prybars evenly to remove the viscous coupler. There will be a 1/4" diameter detent ball in the upper pinion splines of the center diff that retains the output shaft. Use your magnetic pickup tool and remove the detent ball. After that, remove the detent ball plugs (x3), springs (x3), and 11/32" detent balls (x3), the reverse light switch and crush washer (REPLACE THE CRUSH WASHER ON REASSEMBLY, IT DOES MATTER AND WILL CAUSE 5TH/REV SHIFTING ISSUES IF IT IS MISSING OR OVER CRUSHED), and then tap the bearing plate upwards to separate, and use your prybars to remove the bearing plate. After that, it is just removing the reverse lockout switch (19mm head) and crush washer (REPLACE THE CRUSH WASHER ON REASSEMBLY, IT DOES MATTER AND WILL CAUSE 5TH/REV SHIFTING ISSUES IF IT IS MISSING OR OVER CRUSHED), then the reverse idler gear rail retainer bolt (by passenger axle seal side of case, either a TORX or 14mm head, and crush washer. Then remove the main gear cluster case section bolts and then separate the gear cluster case section from the bellhousing. After that is removed, put aside the main case oil guide, and the front differential shim so you don't lose them. The 1/2 and 3/4 fork roll pins are next to remove with your 3/16" roll pin punch and hammer. Then remove the reverse idler gear rail and gear, then remove the two 12mm bolts for the reverse idler lever, remove the lever and key. Now rotate the 5th/Rev shift rail to the right and work that out and up. Then rotate the 3rd/4th rail to the right and out and up with the 5th/Rev rail. Then you will rotate the selector to the right to give more space for the 1/2 rail to rotate to the left of the selector cage and up. Then the two gear clusters and the three rails pull up all at the same time.
  3. When I remove the bottom tapered bearing & sleeve, 1st gear, 1st-2nd slider/hub & 2nd gear off the intermediate shaft, should I put the bearing splitter under 1st or 2nd gear? Remove the intermediate shaft endshaft snap ring, then use either an OTC 1123 or 1130 splitter and place below the 2nd gear and press off 2nd gear, 1/2 hub and slider, 1st gear, 1st needle bearing sleeve and 1st needle bearing all in one push. Then remove the 2nd needle bearing off the shaft. The outer tapered roller bearing can be removed GENTLY with an OTC1123 bearing splitter.
  4. Will doing so (properly) make it possible to save and reuse the tapered bearing, assuming it's not already damaged, or should I replace it no matter what? IT IS A 30 YEAR OLD TRANSMISSION. REPLACE THE INPUT SHAFT AND INTERMEDIATE SHAFT TAPERED ROLLER BEARINGS. PERIOD.
  5. If I'm able to save and reuse the tapered bearing, do I need to remove the corresponding race, perhaps to adjust the spacing for preload/play? In an ideal world you would replace the bearings and re-shim. In a cheap world, replace the bearing and bearing race and reuse the shim in place. You will NEED a slide hammer and bearing race extractor tool like a Miller 9664 (which is what I use).
  6. Even if the cause of the 1st gear popping out is constrained to the 1st-2nd gear intermediate assembly and I see no visible damage elsewhere, are there any other parts that really should be replaced given that I have the trans out and taken apart, as a precaution--aside from gaskets, lock rings, pins, shims, etc., that have to be replaced, of course, along with all the seals? E.g. bearings & races, gears, synchros, springs, etc. You will need to see what you are dealing with when it is all disassembled.
Btw are all or most of these parts still available? Most of the basics are still available, but if you are looking for gears, shafts, 3/4 hub and slider, center diff parts, shift rails, etc you will be totally screwed, or PM'ing me for used replacement parts that I have on the shelf.

Finally, which of these 1st-2nd hub/slider Mitsubishi part #'s should I get? It seems like some of them also come with a synchro or two?

Hub & Sleeve 1st-2nd OEM MD749414 -- This is a bare 1/2 hub and slider (no springs, no keys, no synchros)

See below:

Input Shaft Inner Tapered Roller Bearing MD732314
Input Shaft Outer Tapered Roller Bearing MD726235
Input Shaft Snapring (1.5mm) MD723277
3rd Gear Needle Bearing MD718033 (This bearing also works for 4th gear in replacement of MD749902)
5th Gear Needle Bearing MD719137

Intermediate Shaft Inner Bearing MD726236
Intermediate Shaft Outer Bearing MD736638
1st / 2nd Gear Needle Bearing (1991-1999) MD737652
Intermediate Shaft Snapring (1.5mm) MD703780

Loaded 1/2 Hub and Slider Assembly (thick single synchro 1st with double synchro 2nd) MD747643
Loaded 1/2 Hub and Slider Assembly (2x thick single synchros) MD747637
Bare 1/2 Hub and Slider Assembly MD749414
1st/2nd Hub Springs MD742445
1st/2nd Hub Keys MD742775

1st/2nd Gear Shift Fork AWD MD723439
3rd/4th Gear Shift Fork (90-Early 92) 2-hole MD741558

End Shaft Nut MD731948 x 2
Roll Pins 5.2mm x 26mm MD701722 x 3
Input Shaft Seal MD741818
Front Left Axle Seal MD719710
Front Diff (Right Axle) Oil Seal MD707184
Output Shaft Seal MD723202
Reverse Idler Gear Bolt (Torx) MD749478
Reverse Idler Gear Bolt Washer MD720603
Reverse Wave Spring MD744342
Reverse Switch Washer MF660035
Reverse Lockout Bolt Washer MF660035
Viscous Coupler Snapring (1.5mm) MD720687

Thanks Tim. Way more detail than I was asking for, but welcome as always. I assume that I don't have to replace everything you listed, just the parts you specifically said should be replaced whether or not they're "bad", and you were just trying to be complete. I was hoping to not have to take apart the input shaft as the problem is almost certainly with the intermediate and/or fork, but your point is obviously that since I'm already in there and it's a nearly 30 year old car, I might as well replace these other parts as well. I mean the bearings, both tapered and pin, and of course crush washers, gaskets, pins, lock rings, etc. I actually have some of these parts already like staked nuts, seals, gaskets, etc.

Btw, do you have any idea what MD746829/MD742465 is? Mitsu dealers also list it as Hub & Sleeve + Ring 1st-2nd but without additional detail, so I'm guessing it's for a different trans. Looks like the one for me to get is MD747637, with the 2 single synchros. If I opt for MD747643, with the 2nd dual synchro, do I have to mod or replace anything else like 2nd gear or the hub/sleeve? And why would I want the dual 2nd over the single? I don't and won't race or do anything crazy with the car and it's basically stock with no plans to up the HP significantly beyond 200HP, and I recently installed an SBC Stage 2 DD clutch kit on it.

And the horse isn't dead, just old. :)
 

nismojones

Proven Member
87
23
Jan 10, 2008
Eastpointe, Michigan
Iirc 92 was a change-over year for transmission variances. I could be wrong but You should tear it down and verify what’s in there before ordering parts just to be safe. Mitsubishi still sells some of these parts but some are on backorder depending on what it it you need. Jacks transmissions got back to me right away and sent out what I needed quickly when the dealer had nothing.
 

XC92

Proven Member
988
186
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Iirc 92 was a change-over year for transmission variances. I could be wrong but You should tear it down and verify what’s in there before ordering parts just to be safe. Mitsubishi still sells some of these parts but some are on backorder depending on what it it you need. Jacks transmissions got back to me right away and sent out what I needed quickly when the dealer had nothing.
Thanks, good to know. I've already had the experience of ordering a part that was listed as in stock from a dealer only to find out that it was long since discontinued and is now unavailable. I guess it would be a massive undertaking to sweep through an inventory system that has millions of parts, some decades old. Might explain why Jack's parts are sometimes slightly more expensive than dealers. But, I won't order anything till I open it up and take it apart and see what specific parts need replacing.
 

luv2rallye

DSM Wiseman
8,025
881
Jun 7, 2003
Minneapolis, Minnesota
I've already had the experience of ordering a part that was listed as in stock from a dealer only to find out that it was long since discontinued and is now unavailable.
Get used to that. I find it ALL the time. And even when they say it's back ordered, they can't get it. Calling them directly to ask if it's really in stock got me no where too (or they lied telling me it was). The worst was a part I ordered which took 2 months to get (and that wasn't even from Japan). Most take 2-4 weeks. Every dealer is different on honesty and they all claim they've looked all over the US (even though the 2 month one who claimed I had to wait 3 months to order from Japan was finally found in the US).
 

twicks69

Supporting Vendor
3,855
979
Mar 12, 2004
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Btw, do you have any idea what MD746829/MD742465 is? Mitsu dealers also list it as Hub & Sleeve + Ring 1st-2nd but without additional detail, so I'm guessing it's for a different trans. Looks like the one for me to get is MD747637, with the 2 single synchros. If I opt for MD747643, with the 2nd dual synchro, do I have to mod or replace anything else like 2nd gear or the hub/sleeve? And why would I want the dual 2nd over the single?

MD742465 was just another number used for a 1/2 hub and slider variation. There are several.

If you have a single synchro 2nd gear, then you need to use a 1/2 hub and slider with single synchros for 1st/2nd gear. Simple as that. The double synchro is only usable with double synchro gears; all of which are either backordered or discontinued.
 

XC92

Proven Member
988
186
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Btw, do you have any idea what MD746829/MD742465 is? Mitsu dealers also list it as Hub & Sleeve + Ring 1st-2nd but without additional detail, so I'm guessing it's for a different trans. Looks like the one for me to get is MD747637, with the 2 single synchros. If I opt for MD747643, with the 2nd dual synchro, do I have to mod or replace anything else like 2nd gear or the hub/sleeve? And why would I want the dual 2nd over the single?

MD742465 was just another number used for a 1/2 hub and slider variation. There are several.

If you have a single synchro 2nd gear, then you need to use a 1/2 hub and slider with single synchros for 1st/2nd gear. Simple as that. The double synchro is only usable with double synchro gears; all of which are either backordered or discontinued.
So that solves that. Although I haven't opened it up I can't see why there would be a double synchro setup in there unless the dealer put one in over 25 years ago when they fixed some trans issues under warranty. I'll also double-check the paperwork but I seriously doubt it.

Btw why would one want a double synchro? Smoother or more robust shifting, perhaps especially for higher-HP setups or racing/aggressive driving?
 

twicks69

Supporting Vendor
3,855
979
Mar 12, 2004
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
higher rpm downshifts.

The dealer would have not put anything in your trans like this unless your entire transmission was replaced with a later model year.

Just open the transmission first. You will get much more information once that is done.
 

XC92

Proven Member
988
186
Jul 22, 2020
Queens, New_York
Well, it was '93-'94 or so, IIRC, but I doubt it. What I may find, though, is parts that weren't in the original trans that came in the car, because better ones were available by then, the originals were no longer available, or the mechs just put in whatever they had on hand that would work. That could be good, bad or irrelevant. I'll find out when I find out.
 

twicks69

Supporting Vendor
3,855
979
Mar 12, 2004
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Yup, nothing to do further until you have it opened up and confirm what you actually have.
 
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