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ECMlink Setting up VE table?

Posted by v8s_are_slow, Oct 17, 2014

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  1. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    I'm curious to how you guys are adjusting the SD table and wondering if I'm understanding this correctly. First, you throw in a VE table that ya want (Like Sam from RRE shows), and then put in 14.7 in off boost areas and 10.5 (or whatever your target fuel is) into the openloopmaxoct table. Then to get everything dialed in properly you lock it in openloop and adjust idle with the SD table (guessing the global fuel and deadtime is set to whatever is appropriate for your injector size) until the wideband reads 14.7 at idle and 10.5 at wot. Smooth out everything in between, then uncheck the lock in openloop box and....I dunno. I'm lost from there because I would think that the O2 sensor woud kick in and throw it off from there. Or am I overthinking it? And guessing Airflowperrev is just ignored???

    Curious to see how you guys are doing as opposed to how I've been doing it previously to now. Thanks.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2014

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  2. turbosax2

    turbosax2 Moderator

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    I'm sure everyone does it a bit differently, but here is how I do it.

    • Update both your ECU firmware and software. Updates are good.
    • Verify all sensors are logged properly, especially your wbo2.
    • Verify the car is mechanically sound and ready to tune (good fuel pressure, timing, no boost leaks, etc.). Don't skip these first steps or you'll be redoing this whole process again later!
    • Put in your global fuel, global deadtime, and individual deadtimes to the best of your knowledge.
    • Start with the standard VE table.
    • Put in the OpenLoopMaxOct and TimingMaxOct tables of your choice. I usually start with conservative tables until I get the VE table dialed in close, then get more aggressive.
    • Change the OpenLoopThresholds per this link.
    • Get your idle dialed in (when up to temperature) using the SD VE Adjust (CombinedFT) tool, BISS screw, and the global deadtime. The target values you're aiming for are:
      • SDAirFlowPerRev: ~0.25 (for a standard 2.0L)
        • If SDAirFlowPerRev is high, lower VE
        • If SDAirFlowPerRev is low, raise VE
        • Or, use the SDVEAdjust (CombinedFT) tool
      • ISCPosition: 30
      • LrndIdleAdj: 140
      • CombinedFT: 0
        • If CombinedFT is positive, raise global deadtime
        • If CombinedFT is negative, lower deadtime
    • Drive the car as described in the above link (no WOT) staying in closed loop as much as possible and trying to hit various points in the table. Go up hills to get more load, stay at higher RPM's, etc. Use the SD VE Adjust (CombinedFT) tool. Do this for awhile.
    • Once you're satisfied with those adjustments, reset the OpenLoopThresholds back to stock and make a partial WOT pull. Use the VE table to make the AFRatioEst and Wideband readings line up. You can do this by hand (super tedious) or use LinkTools (awesome). A few pulls like this and you'll have your VE table lined up really close. Once it's dialed in, your AFRatioEst will match the Wideband (in other words, the WBFactor will be around 0%.
    • If the maximum VE is way off from 100, I'll usually adjust the global fuel to get it close to 100. This is a purely cosmetic change - it's all relative.
      • If VE is below 100%, make global fuel more negative
      • If VE is above 100%, make global fuel more positive
    • Make another pull and tune as needed.
    • Put in more aggressive OpenLoopMaxOct and TimingMaxOct tables and tweak the VE table as needed (shouldn't change much).
     

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  3. gofer

    gofer Moderator

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    What Eric said is 100% accurate but just realize that if you're making changes to your global fuel because VE is off at WOT (quoted above) it will also affect idle/cruise FT's so you'll have to increase/decrease the entire VE table to account for the global change and not just the cells used during your WOT pull.

    Long story short, if you change injector global settings to get the VE table looking pretty you'll have to retune idle/cruise too. To me it's worth getting your VE table accurate, not just for aesthetics but also to have somewhat accurate airflow readings in my logs.
     

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  4. turbosax2

    turbosax2 Moderator

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    Thanks for the clarification, Corey. I remember thinking that in my head, but I guess it didn't make it down in text. For what it's worth, LinkTools will also do those changes to the entire table.
     

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  5. gofer

    gofer Moderator

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    I know that you know, just making sure anyone else reading through here realizes it too. LinkTools is nice to have, not everyone can use it though.
     

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  6. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    And I think Linktools is down right now isn't it? If you have it already downloaded, you're good, but I thought he took down the link or whatever and just left up the link for the videos. I didn't read what happened but I guess someone was trying to ripoff his ideas or something. I guess I'd need to read to be sure.
     

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  7. snowborder714

    snowborder714 Moderator

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    Yes, it's currently not available for download.
     

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  8. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    I've basically done exactly this. Only thing I'm wondering is if there's an easier way to know how much to adjust the global. Getting the Wideband and AFRatioEst is easy by just using WBFactor to know how much of an adjustment to make. But what about global? Just use trial and error? I can't use Link tools right now cause my other laptop has a bad cord and can't download it on this one. Not sure if the program will even work anymore or not anyway so need to know how to do it manually, unless it's just a trial and error thing.
     

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  9. gofer

    gofer Moderator

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    LT's is great, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't do crazy voodoo magic to calculate VE based off a change in injector globals. Unless you ask Craig, then he might tell you it's voodoo. :D

    I'll use the below as an example so hopefully you can fill in the blanks with your settings and calculate the proper change in globals/VE. It's fairly common to see inflated VE (>100) when you first start tuning so I'll use that in my example.

    Assume you're tuning your car on 2150's and E85, using the standard equation (2150 x 0.67 = 1440) to calculate injector size on E85 and (100 * ( 450 / 1440) ) - 100 = -69.1% to calculate globals. Once you started tuning WOT you noticed that at peak torque you need VE values >100 in the SD table to richen up AFR's enough to match the WB with your AFREst. Problem is you spent all that time tuning the idle/cruise but with math you can account for a change in globals across the entire VE table.

    So with globals of -69.1% you were getting a VE table that looks like this to get AFR's lined up.

    VE 69 global.jpg

    So you make the changes to the VE table first, you tuned idle/cruise with -69.1% globals so tune the VE table WOT with the same to get AFR's to match even if it's inflated. Then once it lines up you take your highest VE cell and do math to bring it down to 100. Using the table above that would be the 110.0 cells, the goal is to increase globals, making them less negative to richen up AFR's while lowering VE to realistic values.

    To calculate for the change in VE you need figure out the scale factor using the equation below. You want max VE of 100 and it's currently inflated to 110.
    100/110 = 0.91
    So your scale factor is 0.91, which means you'll need to multiply each cell by 0.91 to get your scaled VE. It's tedious but it's not so bad considering you only use about 30% of the VE table so you can get the low load/low RPM and WOT cells perfect and just make broad changes to the rest of the table.

    Now it's time to scale your injector size down by 0.91. Since you used the equation 2150 x 0.67 to get the injector size running E85 of 1440cc, coming up with the current -69.1% globals you just plug that in.
    1440 x 0.91 = 1310
    Then calculate globals for a 1310cc injector.
    (100 * ( 450 / 1310 ) ) - 100 = 66%
    That's how you'd do the calculations manually... simple math. :)

    The end result would be a SD VE table that looks like this with a global setting of -66%.

    VE 66 global.jpg
     

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  10. Calan

    Calan DSM Wiseman

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    Actually, it does.... but it's not voodoo. :)

    (look for "Adjust for global fuel change" in the right-click menu on the VE sheet.)

    I even made a video for it Corey. LOL
     

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  11. gofer

    gofer Moderator

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    Trust me, I know where the global fuel adjustment is in LT's. That thing has come in handy and saved me LOTS of time tuning, one of my favorite features of the program actually.

    I was just explaining how to calculate/tune for a global adjustment if LT's isn't available.
     

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  12. Calan

    Calan DSM Wiseman

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    Ahhhh.... gotcha.
     

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  13. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    But Calan, you're talking about with the program we can't use anymore, correct? Lol. This is the stuff I wish would just be implemented in Link to make life simpler. But I already got my lashings for bringing that up on the forum so I'll keep my mouth shut now ;)

    Gofer, thanks for the info.
     

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