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rebuilt motor, first start, wont start! HELP!

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
Ok so i have everything done and ready to start.....plugged everything, primed the motor of oil and coolent... and tried to start it over..... ONE thing... not sure if this has to do with the problem but it sounds like the ISC is making a clicking noise!

Next the car will start and run for maybe about 5 secs on starting fluid... but onces thats gone it dies..

Then when it IS on my boost gauge is in the neg (-) when i push the gas it goes like to -20....

Finially my fuel pressure regulator is not reading any kind of pressure!
im thinking im not getting fuel.... seeing that it runs with the starter fluid and then shuts off.

I did put a NEW Walbro pump in..
I did take the old gas out and JUST put four gallons of super unleaded!!
I DIDNT drop the tank and "clean" it, i did siphon the gas!!
i didnt change the fuel filter, which i SHOULD have, but i guess i will do that first!
I wanted to check the fuse and relay for the fuel pump cause i read a thread of someone had this problem last week and it was his relay... but can find the relay!

i didn't check the voltage to the pump nor the injectors due to the fact i dont have a voltmeter!!


if someone could please help i would be more than thankful.... i haven't had my own car in a little over a year and i have put thousands of dollars and time into this... i just want to drive my own car for now... then go from there!!!!


thanks

Shawn
 

rush2252

Proven Member
1,682
8
Apr 14, 2009
Blanchard, Oklahoma
im lost you need to check the fuel pump you already stated that? Your obviously not getting fuel bc the fp regulator gauge isnt reading? Im at a loss of what to suggest. Have you tried running a jumper wire to the 12v+ test connector for the fuel pump?
 

rush2252

Proven Member
1,682
8
Apr 14, 2009
Blanchard, Oklahoma
Do you have a chlitons or a haynes? Im not sure about the N/T but the turbo cars there is a test connector that you can run a jumper wire from your battery and it will kick the pump on. This will rule out pump and wiring issues if you find the test connector and the pump comes on then you should probably check your MPI.
 

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
Another thing.... when i had it started off the starter fluid i would press the gas and it would fev up for a sec but my RPM gauge didn't move an inch!!

once i get off work i will change the fuel filter... check the pump for power and work from there... i only have about an hour in between my two jobs so this looks as if it will carry on into the late night hours again!!

and question...., im not good with abbreviation's.... what is MPI??
 

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
Is the MPI the, like gold box bolted next to my ecu?

What exactly does it do?

Ima have to buy a voltage meter today!
Ah man this is the biggest blow ive had in awhile!

looking sooo much forward to starting the car last night!!!

bummer man!

:S

ahhhh
 

rush2252

Proven Member
1,682
8
Apr 14, 2009
Blanchard, Oklahoma
Yes the MPI is the gold box next to the ECU is stands for Multi Port Injection relay I believe? I cant remember exactly but it is referred to in the haynes manual as the fuel pump relay as well, it supplys power to the fuel pump when cranking the motor over. You need to check the pump and wiring first as there could be other problems. I would suggest troubleshooting from the haynes manual and sticking to a troubleshooting path rule out ONE thing at a time and dont second guess yourself. Electrical problems can really be frustrating


Good Luck
Kolby


Just a thought did you install the box to drive the injectors when you did the turbo swap? If you used the turbo ECU and dsm injectors you have to have it to drive the injectors ;) I suppose if it started off of ether then this isnt the case but just a thought after my initial post! Im still leaning towards wiring since you did an entire harness swap and new fuel pump in the process
 

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
yes i did replace the MPI relay... luckly the person i got the harness from gave me that with it... cause i had no clue i needed to swap it... plus the original MPI relay had a different connection, so it wouldnt have work anyways!

So the jumper cable for the pump is the plug behide the battery that has just one male prung in it??
I thought this was the cable to ground when i bypass the ecu to set base timing, but i could be wrong!

but my to do list is:

1) jump the wire to directly power my pump, see if it kicks!

If not
2) check for power to the MPI?

and after all this i will be back to post my results.. but this wont happen till around 4pm central time, since im at work right now!!
 

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
oh not FIRST... i will change the fuel filter... since it NEEDS to be done!
Then ill do the pump and the MPI relay!

One question... how do i rewire my pump.. i read on a thread someone had an issue with not poppin the relays due to it not being rewired... it said he rewired it and replaced the relay and BAM.. it worked perfect!

but before i get ahead of myself i must get home and go down the checklist!!

ahh sorry im just upset and eager to figure this out!!!
forgive me!
 

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
oook... this sounds stupid.... but im trying to check to relay to the fuel pump... and can seem to get the damn voltmeter to read.... ive never used one before and dont know what setting to use on the meter.. i don't know im just so frustrated that my car didnt start and dont know what to do!!
 

rush2252

Proven Member
1,682
8
Apr 14, 2009
Blanchard, Oklahoma
when all else fails READ THE INSTRUCTIONS. If you cant figure it out then try hooking the voltmeter upto a battery and mess with the setting until you see 12.XX volts or thereabouts. As for testing relays I would brush up on some How to's on electrical problems. If you dont know how to operate the tool it isnt going to do you much good. Have patience itll help in the end.
 

93egletsi

Probationary Member
1
0
Sep 13, 2009
essington, Pennsylvania
first check to see if you can hear the pump when you first turn the key on. the pump should run for a couple seconds when the key is first turned on.if you dont hear the pump check your fuse if thats good just take a test light and go to the plug for the pump and see if your getting power to it.just hook the test light to ground and probe the wires.you can either test it when you turn the key on or have someone crank it .if you have power there then your pump is most likely shot.if you dont have power there then you have to start checkin your fuses wiring,relays and so forth.start off simple dont over complicate a problem you will just drive yourself nuts.so start off simple and work your way to the harder stuff.most stuff that is wrong in these cases is something you may have missed and an easy fix.

i hope this helps.let me know how you make out
 

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
ya i know that ether isn't nice!

and ya i know it as already drove me insane!
im freaking frustrated... i ran into sooo many problems during the rebuild i didnt think anything else could go wrong... i was mistaken!!

i checked every fuse in the car nothing... i currently have no one to help me with the checking the power supply to the pump with the light and all that. Roommates to selfish and is trying to fix up it hatch and keeps f***ing sh*t up when he messes with the engine haha its so funny!!

AND i have tried reading the instructions on the meter but they don't tell me what setting to set the meter on for what im measuring!!
I know it sounds silly i don't know how to use this but i was never thought!
i never solved serious wiring issues this way! well mainly cause i never had any!

I HOPE to GOD its not the pump cause its brand spankin new... it a walbro i bought from SBR and if it is bad is there a warranty?? cause i got it like.... 6-7 months ago!!
 

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
ook update...

since i have two main wiring harnesses laying around i got two LONG wires one of the old cab lights by the feet and wired them together and stuck them in my fuel pump connector!!

NO POWER.... solves that issues of scaring me about it being the pump! :thumb:
Its not the fuses

SOOO its either a Shorted wire... Bad MPI relay... OR (what i don't want to think about right now, but wouldnt be that bad) The ECU!!!!

If it IS the ECU, that gives me a reason to get an eprom!
then be that closer to getting the dsmlink thats on my wishlist!

but lets think more realistically!
Im not really hoping but hoping its just the MPI

now where to find one! a GOOD working one??
Found one on ebay but description is... :not sure if it works but it did when it was in the car"
 

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
yes i swapped the ecu... no i dont have an extra one... well yes i do but its for the DL... the other harness is from a 90.. the car i took the engine and the harness from was a 90 and i never used the harness cause i switched out the throttle body and the sensors on that... and the CAS! And i didn't think of think of taking the MPI off the 90 cause i didn't know i needed it!
PLUS i don't think it would connect to the 93 harness i have now!!
 

rush2252

Proven Member
1,682
8
Apr 14, 2009
Blanchard, Oklahoma
Well the 90s are completely different, I think you just got bad luck LOL. You picked the worst yera to swap a car from. I would make sure the CAS is reading. Do you have fire? You shouldnt hear the pump until th e car is cranking, but if the pump is good you should be able to make it run manually like stated before.
 

mosul210

Proven Member
289
1
Aug 7, 2003
san antonio, Texas
Sorry to hear about your issues bro. I was hoping you could get it to at least start by now. Thankfully my own rebuilt went well and my car started yesterday, still not been on the road tested. Anyway, back to your issue, I know some say you should not hear the pump until you crank the engine but I can hear my Walbro 190lph prime when I turn the iginition on. Start with the cheapest solution and move up - so try replacing the MPI Realy. Autozone my match the relay if you remove it from your car and take it to them. If that doesn't work you can try connecting the fuel pump from your NT - just to see if it will start the car. Then we can address the ECU, I may be able to help you locate one for cheap. Good luck.
 

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
ya i have spark... i posted originally it started and idled for a few secs when i used starting fluid... but didn't want to do that to much. i just thought it need help to start then once the motor fired up the fuel would have been squiting good!
i swapped the 6bolt cause it was giving to me.. the onlything wrong with the motor was piston rings... my brother bought a 93 awd talon and didn't have a reason to keep his 90 laser rs... gave me the motor and anything off of it i wanted then junked the car at the junk yard!
i completely rebuilt the engine got all new 91-94 sensors to fit the 93 harness i bought cause i was told i couldn't use the 90 harness... and in order to use the 91-94 sensors and throttle body i needed a 91-94 harness and ecu.. got them and everything works...
the ecu was out my brothers 93 awd.. he didnt need cause he had an eprom w/ dsmlink he had in the 90
and he just swapped some of the wires around for it to work, with the help of the guys from ecmtuning.com

And YES i KNOW i have bad luck hahaha!
its part of my life... nothing ever just goes smoothly... got to always have some bumps in the road!!
 

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
Sorry to hear about your issues bro. I was hoping you could get it to at least start by now. Thankfully my own rebuilt went well and my car started yesterday, still not been on the road tested. Anyway, back to your issue, I know some say you should not hear the pump until you crank the engine but I can hear my Walbro 190lph prime when I turn the iginition on. Start with the cheapest solution and move up - so try replacing the MPI Realy. Autozone my match the relay if you remove it from your car and take it to them. If that doesn't work you can try connecting the fuel pump from your NT - just to see if it will start the car. Then we can address the ECU, I may be able to help you locate one for cheap. Good luck.

well i don't really think autozone would carry the mpi relay... they didn't even carry those clips that hold the shift cables to the transmission.. they told me to go to the dealership!!!! i was like.... OK?!?!
so i just made my own

and heres a link to what it looks like for those who don't know!!
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/problem-diagnosis/263224-mfi-mpi-relay.html

but anyways. i tested the pump lastnight and it works its just not getting power to it!

I guess can SEE if autozone or someplace may carry the MPI but if not im not goin to the dealer inless i HAVE TOO!!
I got a ISC for my DL there... $380 that turned out to not be the problem!!
 

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
ok ok ok....... Replaced the MPI relay... NOTHING!!!
Still no power getting to my fuel fine pump!!
What else could it be??

The ECU??
A Wire shorted??

about the wire being short... before i did the swap it worked perfectly!!!!!!
please i need some good input.... this is eating me alive!!
I just want to drive my car again!
 

skatershawn

Proven Member
1,271
11
Feb 27, 2009
Austin, Texas
ok im just going to get a new ECU......
main reason is cause i found an eprom for a bill!!!
if thats not the problem ill have an eprom ecu haha!

but if it ISN"T the issues what else do i dooo???

could i just just run wire to the fuel pump from to batter with a fuse and a switch?
Fuse to keep it from turning bad!!!
and the switch to turn it off when not needed!

or is there anyway i can wire it into a constant 12v that cuts off when the car is shut off??
 
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