Questions for Justin...

[JusMX141]

Anywhere between 0psi and 50psi will do nicely.

 

[Calan]

Anywhere between 0psi and 50psi will do nicely.

Awesome. I think I'm safe then.

 

[rlacasse1]

Ok, here's another.

What the hell is a bastard 20g?

 

[JusMX141]

Also known as a Sleeper 16G, the Bastard 20G is simply a 16G turbo with a 20G compressor wheel. Some turbo builders have even slipped a larger turbine wheel into the works, converting the package into a super-sleeper.

 

[rlacasse1]

Ah, ok.

Well, eventually, when I get everything else taken care of, I am going to be picking out some turbo that is fairly stock appearing. But it needs to be able to perform well. So I am trying to get some info on them. I'm kind of liking the 20g, or bastard 20g, also thought it would be cool to fab up a EV X turbo manifold for a dsm.

So the bastard 20g will spool quickly but will lag in the top end a little because of the 16g hotside right? Where as with a 20g hotside it would do better in the high end just lag a little more? Is that correct?

 

[JusMX141]

There is no 16G versus 20G turbine housing- it's either a 7cm or super-rare 8cm DSM bolt-on housing, or a T3 10cm turbine housing.

The Sleeper 16G / Bastard 20G is simply a stock-appearing 20G turbo, capable of a little more peak airflow than a 16G. No voodoo magic.

 

[rlacasse1]

AH, got you. I thought they were two separate things there. Yo comprended ese.

Cool, that clears that up then.

That whole EVO X turbo idea of yours sounds really good.

 

[1990AWD]

There is a vendor that just started making manifolds for us to use the twin scroll Evo 8/9 turbos. I would love to have it but the manifold alone is $800 and they haven't been around enough to get then used.

Here's the link. http://www.revshift.com/shop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=77

Btw, Justin, do you know what the specs are for the Evo 8/9 turbos?

 

[JusMX141]

....but the flange would be backward if the manifold is designed for the Evo VIII or IX turbo considering the entire turbo is reverse of a DSM turbo or an Evo X turbo.

My setup idea would require a little custom work on the o2 housing, but what aftermarket turbo doesn't these days.

Here's a preview of someone who did a similar build using an aftermarket TD06-SL2 20G CHRA and machined the Evo X turbine housing to accept the larger turbine:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/323777-1st-twin-scroll-20g-dsm-evo-10-turbo.html

 

[talondave]

Wants to know if Justins going to be at the track with me this year to witness our first 9s pass, since he missed both of my low 10s passes last year???

Atleast Christi was there for the 10.14...

 

[1990AWD]

....but the flange would be backward if the manifold is designed for the Evo VIII or IX turbo considering the entire turbo is reverse of a DSM turbo or an Evo X turbo.

Ya I know it's reversed on the evos but they say it works. There's even a picture of one installed parts way through this thread

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/391553-evo-8-turbo-1st-gen.html

I also found the vendor and posted the link in my previous post.

 

[rlacasse1]

Even thought the turbo is reversed it wouldn't be too difficult to flip it around and build a custom manifold woud it? I mean if you are doing the fab work yourself it wouldn't be to difficult.

 

[JusMX141]

Wants to know if Justins going to be at the track with me this year to witness our first 9s pass, since he missed both of my low 10s passes last year???

Atleast Christi was there for the 10.14...

There's a simple solution to this problem- stop going fast on the Saturdays while I'm at work, and stop breaking shit on the Thursday nights while I'm at the track.

By the way, I was there for the 10.39.

Ya I know it's reversed on the evos but they say it works. There's even a picture of one installed parts way through this thread

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/391553-evo-8-turbo-1st-gen.html

This would work if you could be sure the widespread bolts of the flange are on the correct side to let the Evo X turbo mount up.

Actually, if the turbo flange is arranged the same a stock Evo VIII manifold would work....but the turbo entry would be placed in front of cylinder #2 instead of cylinder #3 so you'd have even less room for an o2 housing to fit between the alternator and filter housing.

 

[JwpRider]

Hey Justin...I can speak for all 'Tuners', what a great asset it is to be able to tap your brain!
Anyway, I have been searching for quite to understand what is required to do a 14B swap on a stock 2G (w/T25). (Alot of contradictions found). Just wanted to put it all in one place--this is not a how to story, just a list of needed items and tips and Justin's insight... (Future plans are 560's, WB 190 FP w/rewire). But I do have some questions.

What I 'think' I know, from researching the Forums -could you confirm please?

• can reuse water lines, but will have to swap/bend a little
• can reuse oil drain, but will have to drill/slot the bolt holes to match 14B, careful when reshaping.
• must get a 1G "oil feed from head" setup, with stock 1G oil line (has restrictor) -DON'T feed from the OFH)
• Will need to replace existing bolt on 2G head with a banjo bolt setup for Oil feed line. Tighten this banjo bolt to 10-14 ft-lbs ( also 2 crush washers per banjo bolt)
• need 3/8 in water line hose (2 ft)
• Need J-Pipe (stock 1g or aftermarket)
• Need Gaskets, Turbo-Mani, Turbo-O2 housing, J-Pipe, downpipe, Turbo oil line (both ends)
• need Oil Plug for OFH-3/8 BPT (NOT NPT)
• need to put a nipple on the jpipe or turbo. (t25 has one 14b does not)
  

Recomended:

• New Turbo mounting bolts (with special dome washers-MR187848)
• Porting of Turbo Inlet,

Questions:

1. Do you always Port the stock 2g O2 Housing-or only if having boost creep
2. Do you always port 2g exhaust manifold-or only if having boost creep
3. Is it worth getting a 7-cm^2 O2 housing?
4. What is a 'seal ring', where is it used and why? (Pics?)
5. Where to get the "kit" of Turbo bolts with dome washers
6. Where to get Banjo Bolt and crush washers for head (Mitsu Part Numbers?)
7. Would you expect boost creep at all if running stock 2g downpipe, high-flow cat and 3" catback?
8. Is it a waste of time to port (behind) the wastegate flapper to open to 90, since actuator/rod won't allow 90 degree operation?
9. If porting the wastgate opening, how much do you open the hole
10. Can you use standard, grade 8 m10x1.25 bolts for the turbo-Mani, or are they a special type?
11. The 14B has stock, 1g O2 housing and exhaust mani included-I assume the 2g's O2 and mani are better performers...correct? Are there any mods required to these 2G parts when mating to a 14G?
12. Will also install a MBC, what boost should this support (w/1G Bov, Stock BCS)?

Thanks again for your insight!!

 

[Calan]

Hey Justin...I can speak for all 'Tuners', what a great asset it is to be able to tap your brain!

We call that a frontal lobotomy...and it was performed a long time ago.

 

[Yamahaulin]

Justin I got a quick question you can probably answer quick. I bought an hx40 from you and i got a BEP t3 housing for it with 3" v-band outlet. My question is will the vibrant 3" flange and clamp work on the discharge of this housing. I am talking with JMF about making an 02 housing for me and he wanted to make sure this would work with the turbine housing.

 

[delta448]

must get a 1G "oil feed from head" setup, with stock 1G oil line (has restrictor) -DON'T feed from the OFH)

I fed a 14b from the OFH on my 2Gb with no issue, even with a low oil pressure at idle (about 8 psi). Thoughts Justin?

 

[JusMX141]

• can reuse 2G water lines, but will have to swap/bend a little Correct.
• can reuse oil drain, but will have to drill/slot the bolt holes to match 14B, careful when reshaping. If you have a die grinder with a carbide bit, elongating the holes takes 20 seconds.
• must get a 1G "oil feed from head" setup, with stock 1G oil line (has restrictor) -DON'T feed from the OFH) You can feed from the filter housing- many do, but you should be using a .075" restrictor. Unrestricted is just too much pressure and volume for a used turbo to handle.
• Will need to replace existing bolt on 2G head with a banjo bolt setup for Oil feed line. Tighten this banjo bolt to 10-14 ft-lbs ( also 2 crush washers per banjo bolt) If using the head for your feed source, correct.
• need 3/8 in water line hose (2 ft) I prefer transmission cooler hose over regular fuel hose.
• Need J-Pipe (stock 1g or aftermarket) Aftermarket would be preferred.
• Need Gaskets, Turbo-Mani, Turbo-O2 housing, J-Pipe, downpipe, Turbo oil line (both ends) I've re-used gaskets in a pinch and they've worked fine if you cannot locate each and every one.
• need Oil Plug for OFH-3/8 BPT (NOT NPT) ...or you can use a 1/4" line plug where you remove the T25 oil supply line.
• need to put a nipple on the jpipe or turbo. (t25 has one 14b does not) Correct.

1. Do you always Port the stock 2g O2 Housing-or only if having boost creep I'd say port it anyway while it's off the car.
2. Do you always port 2g exhaust manifold-or only if having boost creep Creep has nothing to do with manifold flow. Port the manifold only to match the inlet of the turbine housing.
3. Is it worth getting a 7-cm^2 O2 housing? This part doesn't exist- I'm guessing you mean an Evo III o2 housing, which is required only with an Evo III 16G because of the outlet size.
4. What is a 'seal ring', where is it used and why? You and the sealing ring will meet once you remove the turbo from the manifold.
5. Where to get the "kit" of Turbo bolts with dome washers Not sure.
6. Where to get Banjo Bolt and crush washers for head (Mitsu Part Numbers?) Extreme PSi or JNZ Tuning.
7. Would you expect boost creep at all if running stock 2g downpipe, high-flow cat and 3" catback? It can be a possibility, but not likely with the stock downpipe.
8. Is it a waste of time to port (behind) the wastegate flapper to open to 90, since actuator/rod won't allow 90 degree operation? A complete waste of time and resources.
9. If porting the wastgate opening, how much do you open the hole Not large enough that the flapper cannot seal.
10. Can you use standard, grade 8 m10x1.25 bolts for the turbo-Mani, or are they a special type? Turbo hardware should be 10.9 or stronger.
11. The 14B has stock, 1g O2 housing and exhaust mani included-I assume the 2g's O2 and mani are better performers...correct? 2G manifold = larger runners, less chance of cracking....2G o2 housing = slightly larger wastegate passage and relocated o2 sensor position.
12. Are there any mods required to these 2G parts when mating to a 14B? None.
13. Will also install a MBC, what boost should this support (w/1G Bov, Stock BCS)? Around 20-22psi peak.

Hope this helps.

Justin I got a quick question you can probably answer quick. I bought an hx40 from you and i got a BEP t3 housing for it with 3" v-band outlet. My question is will the vibrant 3" flange and clamp work on the discharge of this housing. I am talking with JMF about making an 02 housing for me and he wanted to make sure this would work with the turbine housing.

Most guys I know are using the Vibrant v-band kit.

I fed a 14b from the OFH on my 2Gb with no issue, even with a low oil pressure at idle (about 8 psi). Thoughts Justin?

Was this with the balance shafts in place? Your pressure seems awful low at idle for a filter housing source is the only reason I'm asking.

Peak recommended pressure for a MHI center housing is 42-48psi....sourcing from the filter housing unrestricted can give double that on most cars which is fatal for the turbo.

 

[delta448]

Was this with the balance shafts in place? Your pressure seems awful low at idle for a filter housing source is the only reason I'm asking.

Yes, balance shafts were still in place. Part of the pressure problem was that the car had a re-occurring problem with low idle speed, the ISC kept readjusting itself down to about 550-600rpm. Once I switched to the Evo ECU, I simply flashed in a 950rpm idle setting and it held steady as a rock, with around 14-16psi warm oil pressure.

Peak recommended pressure for a MHI center housing is 42-48psi....sourcing from the filter housing unrestricted can give double that on most cars which is fatal for the turbo.

I did use a restrictor, although my memory is not nearly good enough to recall what size it was. I was more worried about oil starvation than over pressure to the CHRA.

 

[JusMX141]

You literally can't starve a filter housing-fed MHI turbo unless you're mistakingly using a ball-bearing (.030") restrictor. These turbos are fed at the head from the factory with a .070" restrictor built into the factory feed line....they can survive on a pressure and volume level that no other journal bearing turbo can.

 

[usmc0651dns]

What would the "stock" boost level be on the small 16G with "stock" flapper? No MBC, of course.

 

[JusMX141]

It *should* be in the 9-11psi range, but large exhaust and o2 housings may add too much turbine flow and could cause it to creep.

 

[RadDsm]

I have a quick and simple question:
When not using the coolant lines on an MHI turbo, do you recommend putting the banjo bolts in the CHRA or leaving them out and having it open?

Thanks in advance for answering all these questions.

 

[JusMX141]

Might as well just leave them out so air can pass through the cartridge.

These people that go out of their way to plug the coolant holes when the lines are removed crack me up....like something's going to flow out of the cartridge.

 

[Ppayer38]

Got a honda kid willing to give me a turbo he got in a trade and wants to get rid of... he says it a T3/T4 T04E ebay turbo with no shaft play.... My question is can you rebuild this thing to fit a DSM hotside with quality parts and make it worth something to run? or just let him keep it and deal with the trouble