1G New oring block build

[SasaniFab]

Ok guys the time has come, the head and block are finished and have to be picked up. The block was oringed and the unused ports on the head were welded shut. This motor will be running Manley turbo tuff rods and wiseco hd Pistons. What headgaskets can be used with the stainless oring? Is it just the oem? I will make sure to take pics each step of the way if anyone would like to see my progress....

 

[donniekak]

You're going to here a lot of different things, but in my experience a composite gasket works best with a stainless o ringed block. However a fresh block surface and head surface work great with a felpro mls as well.

The newest setup I've seen that seems to work best is interlocking o rings in the head and block with a composite.

 

[SasaniFab]

So either a felpro mls or oem?

You're going to here a lot of different things, but in my experience a composite gasket works best with a stainless o ringed block. However a fresh block surface and head surface work great with a felpro mls as well.

The newest setup I've seen that seems to work best is interlocking o rings in the head and block with a composite.

 

[SasaniFab]

The head is a brand new oem casting and the block was decked and oringed. You can run a permatorque mls gasket with orings? I thought the oem one was your only choice

 

[donniekak]

I wouldn't run any mls gasket with a stainless o ring block.

I like felpro composite gaskets with stainless o rings. My buddy has ran 50 psi with o rings and an eBay $18 composite gasket.

 

[91talonts1]

I don't think mls would work as the oring couldn't compress into it. I believe Boostin Performance uses a copper gasket with o rings.
I'd double check with whoever did the machine work to see what they recommend.

 

[zedicus]

we run copper or aluminum wire in our o-ring grooves and use MLS headgaskets, on motorcyle and dirtbike motors. a 1 litre street bike engine has a lot in common with a 4g63, so i am sure the same could be done.

 

[SasaniFab]

I don't think mls would work as the oring couldn't compress into it. I believe Boostin Performance uses a copper gasket with o rings.
I'd double check with whoever did the machine work to see what they recommend.

The person who recommended this setup is raif at rrt, he ran the oem mls with ss orings, his talon went 8s. We will see, im going to do more homework.

 

[ceedawg]

WTFKeep it simple and just do what Raif did bro! Homework for what?

 

[SasaniFab]

im gunna pick the block monday and start the shortblock assembly. I have a oem oil pump with straight cut gears, all new oem timing components and a oem aisin waterpump. Like I said the pistons are wiseco hd and manley turbo tuff rods with new oem 6 bolt crank. I have a set of acl race bearings, I might order a set of king bearings, ive had good luck with them. The head is an unported 6 bolt, the casting ports are welded shut. I have ferrea stainless valves, keepers and seals. I went with gsc beehives for my gsc stage 2 cams and revised lifters. This motor will be used when I get my dogbox installed. I had the machinist go tight on the hone. I plan on finish honing the motor myself with a torque plate for a ptw clearance of around .004-.0045, the motor will be seeing alot of boost so. My current motor I chose .22-.24 for ring gaps, im debating if I should tighten that up, my motor doesnt smoke of burn a drop of oil so i dont know. As far as oil clearances im sure ill be in the neighborhood of .0025-.003 due to my new crank, I always mic the crank and double check with plastigauge . I purchased a really nice dial bore gauge kit that is able to do the cylinders and also the rods. Hopefully ill have good luck building this new motor. Im getting excited. If anyones interested ill take pictures step by step of my progress....

 

[donniekak]

I would go a little bigger on the ptw clearance if you plan on lots of boost. My current engine is around .005"-.0055" and I street drive the car. I'm also using wiseco hd's.

.022" for the top is plenty tight, and I wouldn't go any tighter for a big power engine.

 

[SasaniFab]

I would go a little bigger on the ptw clearance if you plan on lots of boost. My current engine is around .005"-.0055" and I street drive the car. I'm also using wiseco hd's.

.022" for the top is plenty tight, and I wouldn't go any tighter for a big power engine.

Do you experience any slap? I was shocked at how quiet these Pistons are, even when cold.

 

[donniekak]

Do you experience any slap? I was shocked at how quiet these Pistons are, even when cold.

Not really. I think I may have heard them on a couple 35* mornings, but other than that they are quiet. I don't drive the car until its warmed up though, to prevent wear.

 

[familyMAN]

I have the dual oring setup. With an $18 composite gasket. Half fille block and stock water pump. Held 50psi of boost from a super99 and spray from 2600 rpm to 35psi.

You really should know what gasket you intend to run before getting the block oringed so they know where to place it. On a MLS gasket it will be at a different spot than a composite. A Copper won't matter as much.

Sounds like this is a fully filled block with a welded head. If so, do what works with that combo on multiple engine platfors......SS oring block, receiver groove in the head and copper gasket. Also good enough for 7.3x on a 4g for Bush.

If it is fully filled, you definitely want more PTW clearance. Those ring gaps sound tight too. Only problem with going a little too loose is losing a very small percentage of power and needing a big catch can. Problem with going even a fraction too tight.....catastrophic failure.

 

[DetroitStroker]

Isn't the machine work done to match a specific firing ring?

 

[Justin Lauscher]

im gunna pick the block monday and start the shortblock assembly. I have a oem oil pump with straight cut gears, all new oem timing components and a oem aisin waterpump. Like I said the pistons are wiseco hd and manley turbo tuff rods with new oem 6 bolt crank. I have a set of acl race bearings, I might order a set of king bearings, ive had good luck with them. The head is an unported 6 bolt, the casting ports are welded shut. I have ferrea stainless valves, keepers and seals. I went with gsc beehives for my gsc stage 2 cams and revised lifters. This motor will be used when I get my dogbox installed. I had the machinist go tight on the hone. I plan on finish honing the motor myself with a torque plate for a ptw clearance of around .004-.0045, the motor will be seeing alot of boost so. My current motor I chose .22-.24 for ring gaps, im debating if I should tighten that up, my motor doesnt smoke of burn a drop of oil so i dont know. As far as oil clearances im sure ill be in the neighborhood of .0025-.003 due to my new crank, I always mic the crank and double check with plastigauge . I purchased a really nice dial bore gauge kit that is able to do the cylinders and also the rods. Hopefully ill have good luck building this new motor. Im getting excited. If anyones interested ill take pictures step by step of my progress....

Why not aluminum rods??

 

[SasaniFab]

Raif told me to run an oem mls head gasket, I'm assuming that's what he set it up for. The block isn't filled, the casting ports were welded shut on the head, I'm not filling the block. He ran this setup to mid 8s on his talon. I believe he did half fill the block, I don't plan on filling the block. I want my car to remain streetable.

 

[SasaniFab]

I'm still learning guys, it's gunna be trial and error for me. I made the mistake in investing in another spare engine before beefing up my driveline. So I don't want the block sitting unfinished and exposed. The motor in my talon made 640 whp on a mustang with my specs and my tune will the help of everyone here of course. With a dogbox and some good driving that should be good for some 10s maybe 9s. Right now my fuel system is tapped out, I plan on running an inline 044 in addition to the walbro 450, I was even contemplating a radium setup using the walbro as the lift pump to the secondary tank then the 044 to the rail. We will see. Like I said I'm working on saving for the driveline. These parts are expensive. The transmission and transfer case will be close to 9k all said in done.

 

[boostdawd]

I would enjoy some pictures of the progress! Keep up the great work ams. I'm always looking forward to your posts.

 

[ceedawg]

i Like I said I'm working on saving for the driveline. These parts are expensive. The transmission and transfer case will be close to 9k all said in done.

9k damn!!!
Time to save up and buy a used Porsche 911S4 or eventually a GTR ! Guess I am also speaking for myself. After paint and suspension that's it I am done!
However that's me.

I say post pics and keep us updated on your progress.

 

[DetroitStroker]

you will be saying $9k on chassis next buddy! Cage, brakes, suspension, tubular subframes .


I'm interested in the theory of a stainless wire in the block vs the head? If cylinder pressures climb and you do pop a gasket wouldn't you want to be able to weld and repair the head instead of removing the block? Or have a spare head with rings ready to pop on while the other is being fixed... I see a lot of fast people prefer the block done...is that because of the ability to seal better?

 

[Kapok6]

Not really. I think I may have heard them on a couple 35* mornings, but other than that they are quiet. I don't drive the car until its warmed up though, to prevent wear.

I've seen some research showing that modern cars should not be warmed up before driving. they should be lightly driven asap as the higher rpms and light load allow the car to heat up to operating temp faster than it would if you just sit there and let it idle.

 

[SasaniFab]

I've seen some research showing that modern cars should not be warmed up before driving. they should be lightly driven asap as the higher rpms and light load allow the car to heat up to operating temp faster than it would if you just sit there and let it idle.

I think that for most dsm guys the point in warmer up the car is because of the molasses we run for oil. I'm winter the car doesn't move until it's up to operating temp. Summer I'm a little more lax but still require the car to warm up

 

[Kapok6]

To each their own. I run 25w50 and I start the car and drive. I find it reaches operating temp faster that way.

 

[bling5tatus]

To each their own. I run 25w50 and I start the car and drive. I find it reaches operating temp faster that way.

Samesies. I just don't boost the car until it warms up. Putting heat into the motor by driving it (above idle rpm operation for the engine) definitely causes the motor/oil to reach operating temp faster.