The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

Please Support Kiggly Racing
Please Support Fuel Injector Clinic

head gasket (o-ringed)?[Merged 2-7] o-ring oring block

This site may earn a commission from merchant
affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

My new engine is O-Ringed. I have a groove that is 39/1000 of an inch wide and 23/1000 of an inch deep cut around each cylinder in the block. I'm using 35/1000 inch thick stainless steel welding wire to lay in the groove so it will protrude about 12-13/1000 of an inch above the surface of the block. The gasket is an SCE copper one. If i can get a digital camera I'll take a picture and show you what the block looks like.

I almost forgot: here's some more info:

You want to use SS wire because it does not compress - it is harder than copper. The purpose of the wire is to cut into the gasket to provide additional clamping force around the combustion chamber since copper gaskets are flat and do not deform like regular gaskets. Therefore the clamping force between the block and head are uniform all over the gasket and you want extra pressure around the cylinder. That's why most gaskets have fire rings - to provide heat resistance (copper doesn't have this problem) and additional clamping load.
 
my block is o-ringed...i used solid copper wire i stripped from some 18g (i think) wiring from radio shack....you want to use annealed copper wire if you plan on running a metal headgasket..this way the copper smashes down and seals when your tq the headstuds...works for me so far..but im still breaking the clutch in...time will tell
 
where would one go about getting the parts for getting the block o-ringed? thanks!
 
Ive found a few places that can do it. Ill post some. However, what are your overall goals (HP) for the car? Honestly I don't feel that o-ringing the block and/ or head is worth it unless you want 700+ horspower. A good Metal (cometic HP) head gasket, and ARP head studs along w/ a properly decked head and block surface can and will hold 35+psi all day long w/ out incident. This Is why I'd rather just use this meathod rather than spending the unnecessary money and an 0-ring engine. But Heres a place that can do it.

http://www.engintecs.com/html/dsm_blocks.html
http://www.jacksonautomachine.com/
 
well i've seen some pictures of em but i've never had a close up look at one. are they sleeves that are inserted into the block? or rings cut into it or what? gonna have a guy here in town do the work on the block. i'm buying the parts. 2.3L stroker with aluminum rods, ross pistons, butcher crank, etc. etc. so yeah, i want power out of it. as long as i've been into cars i'm amazed that i haven't ever heard of this until about a month ago.

i know it's suppose to help with high boost, nos, etc. but wondering what it is that's being done to the block.
 
They basically cut a circle around each cylinder and use either stainless steel or copper wire to form an o-ring. I went with an o-ringed head and a composite head gasket for my 2.4L set up.
 
i'm hearing some people saying that o-ringing the head is good. bad from other people. i dunno. was thinkin of going with that headgasket that's on ffwd's website for the 2.3L i'm building.
 
i have a 2.3 stroker, i have my block o-ringed and i had it done w/ stainless so it doesnt have to be replaced everytime i pull the head off. i had it done in a "figure 8" pattern. i also run a cometic or new steel mitsubishi headgasket, w/ arp headstuds. when you have your block or head etc o-ringed its usually a trade off.. w/ a o-ringed motor you will burn pistons or valves instead of just blowing a head gasket like before w/ out the o-rings. BUT if you know how to tune it then you wouldnt have to worry about it... i wouldnt use copper because EVERYTIME you take the motor apart you would have to get it RE o-ringed ,w/ stainless you can pull your motor apart 3-4 times before getting it done again. my motor comes apart every winter to make sure everythign is in good working order for summertime spankings :D
 
okay cool deal. i actually already have a mitsu metal head gasket i was gonna maybe reuse but heard about some people having problems sealing the motors with o-ringed blocks, so i was thinkin about swapping head gaskets. i don't wanna have any issues when i get the motor finished. want everything working just fine and dandy. or at least just have small issues to worry about....
 
Forces32psi said:
i wouldnt use copper because EVERYTIME you take the motor apart you would have to get it RE o-ringed ,w/ stainless you can pull your motor apart 3-4 times before getting it done again.
don't you just have to lay new copper wire down in the groove and get a new copper gasket? thats not enough to deter me from using copper. this is something I'm deciding on right now as well before the engine goes to the shop, 28-30psi is a lot.
 
no your block or head has to be cut ( a groove) and the wire (copper or stainelss) is put into the groove. and on mine, the block is done so my steel headgasket does on top of the stainless o-ring and then head compresses everything. i wouldnt do copper though just becuase it has to be replaced everytime the head is pulled off and the stainless doesnt. and to get that wire replaced the motor has to be pulled etc. alot of things can go wrong where the head would have to come off, and i dont care to have to pull the whole motor to do all that.... just my 2 penny's. steven
 
ive never had to replace mine so i wouldnt know how hard it is to put more wire down in there or if you can even do it at home?? thats why i got stainless so i wouldnt have to mess w/ it.. :D and i plan on running upwards of 40psi w/ the stainless o-rings.
 
I am using stainless steel wire, with a copper head gasket, no problems at this point and it has been over a year. I used a hylomar type sealant on the gasket itself.
 
Big Woo said:
I am using stainless steel wire, with a copper head gasket, no problems at this point and it has been over a year. I used a hylomar type sealant on the gasket itself.


Do you have the o-rings in the head or the block? I have the o-rings in the head and from what I have been reading/told it is best for me to run a composite style head gasket, is this true?
 
Well there are many ways to do things, and different machine shops will invariability have differing opinions. I have done three DSM motors with o-rings all of them used a stainless steel wire in the deck of the block with a copper gasket and sealant. None have failed ever or yet, (depending on how you look at it) and the first one is several years old now.

I tried to use the Cometic gasket with one of them, but I was informed that it would not reccomend it because of the proximity of the head gaskets combustion chamber em-bossment in relation to where the o-ring would have to be placed in either the head or the block. The amount of room available on a 4G63 block is not abundant, and depending on how you want to have the o-rings installed I.E. separate for each cylinder or figure 8 (siamesed), will have a effect on how much room is available, and what type of gasket should be used.

There is more than one way to skin the cat, and there are upsides and down sides no matter which way you choose to go. Again opinions will vary, as different shops will have found parts, processes, and procedures that work for them. What I stated above has thus far worked on my personnel car, and two customer engines.
 
Also in responce to a question earlier in this thread.
The type of wire chosen (stainless, or copper) is usually a function the what type of gasket you want to use.
 
Okay well what type of head gaskets do you think I should use then. I have stainless steel o-rings in the head and they are around each cylinder not a figure 8.
 
the 1st head gasket i ran was the new steel mitsubishi head gasket w/ my o-ring.. no sealant or anything and no problems.. now im running the cometic steel headgasket w/ the same stainless figure 8 o-rings in my block .. my head is not o-ringed... what are all the options here? why use sealant? where do you put it? IF you got the head and the block o-ringed would they have to be in the exact same places so they would be directly ontop of one another w/ the steel gasket in between? or is only 1 side needed?
 
I tried uploading a picture of a o-ringed block, but it was too large, so I added it to my gallery. It is a 4G63 block with .020 stainless steel o-rings installed, individual for each cylinder.

The gasket you use is up to you and your machinist, and what will work best will also depend on where the o-rings were placed, (I.E). I.D. & O.D. of the o-ring itself in relation to the cylinder bore, and any em-bossment that may be present on the head gasket you use.

(forces32)
There are too many possibility's to state all of them. Yes you can machine the o-ring groove into the block or head, and machine a receiver groove into the surface opposite where the o-ring is installed. And yes placement and location of the o-ring groove and its receiver is critical.

Personally I have had better luck using a sealant on metal head gaskets in use with o-rings, on engines with blocks and heads that are constructed of different materials, I.E. aluminum head, iron block. Also of note though, I tend not to use a sealant when the block and head materials are the same.

As I was stating above in previous posts, every shop has there own way, so in my opinion your best bet is to find a shop with experience in these types of applications, and do what they reccomend. What they reccomend will undoubtedly differ from 19 of the 20 opinions you will get from this board, but that will not necessarily make it incorrect.

The biggest mistake I see most people make is that they try to listen to too everybody, it is a bit like going to congress and trying to get a unanimous vote.
 
I'm very frustrated with my current project, a 95 Talon AT with 6-bolt swap. I bought the car with a blown headgasket.

So, I replaced the headgasket with a stock Fel-Pro. I'll also add that when I was taking the cylinder head off, the ARP nuts were not very tight. I've heard of problems getting headgaskets to seal with an o-ringed block. The headgasket that was on there was a MLS. Anyways, I replace the headgasket and button everything back up.

I then let it idle for awhile and was running perfect. Later that day, I retorqued the heads and then did a compression check. After I retorqued the heads to 95lbs, the best that I got was 120psi across all 4. I thought that was kinda of low for a fairly fresh motor. I then started the car up and let it run for awhile. I then shut it off and tried to restart it, but wouldn't fire. I checked the compression and it was like 90 psi in all 4. Now its down to like 100, 90, 60 and 90psi. Since the compression has gotten so bad won't even start anymore. Any ideas?

-Thanks, Jason
 
Maybe somebody can clarify this, but I was under the impression that you need a copper head gasket to have an o-ringed block/head. I thought that since the o-ring material is usually stainless steel that it would have to be used with a gasket that was made of a softer material, like copper. I could be wrong though. Also if the headgasket was blown there is a possibility that the head could be warped. I always check the cylinder head for flatness and resurface if neccesary when doing a headgasket job. With a steel head gasket the surface needs to be extremely smooth or it will probably not seal completely. Most machine shops don't make it very smooth, you have to tell them that you want it as smooth as glass to get the point across.
 
Im not going to use the Taboo heresay blah blah, but thats what Ive read. Im sure if you search for it youll see, Ive read that several times here the reverse actually, if you want a copper gasket, you need to get the block o-ringed. Personally I say screw all that, deck the head and go cometic MLS.

Ryan :talon:
 
I too vote for a incorrect or imperfect head or block surface.

The most common o-ring combos for the 4G63 seem to be * Felpro composite with a stainless steel o-ringed head, * Mitsu or Cometic MLS with a copper o-ringed block, and *Copper gasket with a SS o-ringed block.

Are you using a copper or SS o-ring? (I'm assuming stainless steel)

Either way, it doesn't sound like you are doing anything wrong or using a bad combination. I would recommend having the head a block surfaces checked by a machinist.
 
I pulled the head off last night and sure enough, the headgasket wasn't sealed. The block is copper o-ringed. I think we are going to buy some more copper wire and redo the o-rings. We've heard that the shop that o-ringed this block has had a reputation for customers having problems with blown HG's. We also saw that the o-rings don't seem to be all the same height, which probably doesn't help with sealing properly. From what I've heard, we should use a Mitsu or Cometic MLS and copper spray with the copper o-rings. We will also check for straightness of the block and make sure the head isn't warped. Thanks for the help. I'll keep you posted.

-Thanks, Jason
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Innovation Products Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top