New 16G Dyno Numbers on C16

[sbengineering]

1. making power isn't that hard. It's making the car drivable, reliable and safe that stands you apart from others.

and 2. there is always gonna be somebody faster, better, stronger, etc. So try to be at least a bit humble.

 

[V8notENUF]

Pay for the machining on my spare block (needs a line bore on the mains and cylinder bore) and help me put it in and you got a deal. As a matter of fact if anyone wants to come to NE, help me change the block if it blows ( i am waiting on a back surgery so i can't work on heavy stuff that well anymore), and bring a set of pistons and i'll pay for the machine work and we'll run this focker till she pops on the dyno

I hope someone steps up, I'd gladly make the trip to watch!!

 

[danl]

1. making power isn't that hard. It's making the car drivable, reliable and safe that stands you apart from others.

Oh good, we'll be expecting you to be running with the top dogs this year then? I mean, since as you so elegantly put it, it's so easy, right?

 

[sbengineering]

Oh good, we'll be expecting you to be running with the top dogs this year then? I mean, since as you so elegantly put it, it's so easy, right?

For the well seasoned yes. That, time, and of course always money. Here's my latest, in street tune.

 

[turboglenn]

I hope someone steps up, I'd gladly make the trip to watch!!

Blew my tranny tonight, was leaning her out at 20psi in 3rd gear, and really starting to make some power and it just broke and free revved right aftter 4500 RPM. You don't have a spare you could drive over here with do ya???

 

[red91gst]

For the well seasoned yes. That, time, and of course always money. Here's my latest, in street tune.

Why does that POS have 4 shift lights? (warning lights maybe?)

Just think if that big ugly thing made 500hp per liter like we do..... Oh yeah, it'd be a Top Fuel rail car.

 

[99gst_racer]

Blew my tranny tonight, was leaning her out at 20psi in 3rd gear, and really starting to make some power and it just broke and free revved right aftter 4500 RPM. You don't have a spare you could drive over here with do ya???

There's a good chance it was only your differential that failed. Crack that thing open and check it out.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Why does that POS have 4 shift lights? (warning lights maybe?)

Just think if that big ugly thing made 500hp per liter like we do..... Oh yeah, it'd be a Top Fuel rail car.

Top fuel cars make a lot more hp per liter than 500.



This isn't rocket science guys. Intercoolers have come a long way since we all started using 16g's. The new garret cores that Buschur and AMS are using are absolutely AMAZING. One thing that most haven't noticed because they are too busy talking about cryo treating their "junk", is his boost. Many people have dynoed the EVO III 16g over 400whp. From when i've read on the forums, none except Curt Brown here, has held the boost in the upper 20's. They all drop off towards the top end. So, now you have at least 28psi by redline, a great intercooler, a tuner with half a brain, and bam great power. Tuning is NOT that difficult. If the car is set up well, its going to be cake walk for him/her. If the car is a hack full of shit like most DSM's, then sure it won't make any power.

 

[sbengineering]

Why does that POS have 4 shift lights? (warning lights maybe?)

To warn

 

[BringBackDSM]

Why does that POS have 4 shift lights? (warning lights maybe?)

Just think if that big ugly thing made 500hp per liter like we do..... Oh yeah, it'd be a Top Fuel rail car.

Wow real classy dude. Call his car a POS. Nice...

The more and more I read, the more you guys seem like rich kid brats with to much time and money on your hands.

 

[Ravenous]

Wow real classy dude. Call his car a POS. Nice...

The more and more I read, the more you guys seem like rich kid brats with to much time and money on your hands.

I have to agree. I have much respect for the numbers you guys throw down. I would love to know what you know and would love to learn from your posts. However all I see is your reason for these high numbers is that you are better than the rest of us. The whole idea behind these forums is to share knowledge and at this point you just seem like a braggart. I look forward to seeing your 1/4 mile numbers as this thread has made me reconsider the 50trim and re-evaluate the EVOIII 16g. Kudos to you and your team, you do have much more knowledge and understanding of these cars, it would just be nice if some day down the road you would let the rest of us in on your "secrets".

 

[turboglenn]

There's a good chance it was only your differential that failed. Crack that thing open and check it out.

No the diff is good, i have 1st, 2nd, 5th and reverse, and when i tested the diff it rotated correctly with the tranny in first jacked up spinning one tire, the other turned the opposite way just like it should.

 

[turboglenn]

A lot of our track cars have 5 shift lights (well five lights in a bar of lights) they light up mor eand more turning from green to yellow to red to tell teh driver where he's at in the power range so he can concentrate on the track and not have to look at a tach.

 

[sbengineering]

I would trade my perfectly working, rebuilt, 5speed for an AWD automatic in any shape.

 

[red91gst]

Wow real classy dude. Call his car a POS. Nice...

The more and more I read, the more you guys seem like rich kid brats with to much time and money on your hands.

If this is really what you think you obviously don't know me

Holy Shit, it was a joke... I thought you guys would understand that much.

The ONLY reason I started this thread was to let the tooners community know what we have done, and that it CAN be done. NOT to argue about it.

I'm sure you guys can relate. Years of research into build DSMs, just to be questioned on the validity of your work.

 

[sbengineering]

If this is really what you think you obviously don't know me

Holy Shit, it was a joke... I thought you guys would understand that much.

The ONLY reason I started this thread was to let the tooners community know what we have done, and that it CAN be done. NOT to argue about it.

I'm sure you guys can relate. Years of research into build DSMs, just to be questioned on the validity of your work.

Nothing like years of experience.

 

[BringBackDSM]

If this is really what you think you obviously don't know me

Holy Shit, it was a joke... I thought you guys would understand that much.

The ONLY reason I started this thread was to let the tooners community know what we have done, and that it CAN be done. NOT to argue about it.

I'm sure you guys can relate. Years of research into build DSMs, just to be questioned on the validity of your work.

I didn't realize it was a joke.

I never questioned the goals you accomplished. I think it's great. Probably giving false hope to lots of 16g guys out there, but hey whatever. (I get tired of people saying so many people have went over 400wph with the 16g, cause 98% will never do it.)

Ive done years of research to sitting on my ass, does that count? Probably not, good job though, but some of your groups posts just seem really ignorant and concieded to the rest of the dsm world.

I am in no way trying to start a fight with this post.

 

[tstkl]

I can fly and so can my pigs!!!!!!!

 

[99gst_racer]

I can fly and so can my pigs!!!!!!!

*Checks Hell to see if it froze over yet.*

 

[turboglenn]

*Checks Hell to see if it froze over yet.*

It did, and I live here, it's called nebraska!

 

[wishihadatalon]

It did, and I live here, it's called nebraska!

Are you sure, this is 10 minutes from my house WOODTV.com & WOOD TV8: Grand Rapids news, weather, sports and video | 50+ cars collide on I-96; 400 stranded for a time Even awd with snow tires doesn't help here

 

[tstkl]

in all honesty, it IS technically possible, just like its possible to get a 100% "stock" sentra to run 14's. You just have to remove the spair tire, jack, roof, glass, interior, and a few other things.

The problem and reason why no one has done it, is ### the heat created is just uncontrolable.

Plus, by my calculations, an evo316g stops flowing enough to hold 30psi with 100% VE @ under 5400 rpms. Although the dyno graph doesn't show it very well.

Reasons why I think that graph is fake:
the pull in general is VERY VERY dirty. Its not smooth and predictible like the dyno of a turbo being pushed to the very limits of its map would be. Also, if you look at just about everyone thats put that kind of power down @ 30 psi, I doubt any of them did it at 5700 rpms. This look much more like the graph of a 50 trim/ 20g on stock cams/stock intake manifold/throttle body. Torque does peak rather early, but not as early as I would expect from an evo3 16g on a cammed motor with an unrestrictive exhaust and good flowing exhaust manifold.

again, its possible, but i mean, for all intents and purposes Im just gonna go ahead and pull that bs flag... no one has ever made anywhere near this much power. It would be much more believable if there were others in this range, but when you compair to other cars, this car is just too far from the mark. the main issue is airflow, its just not there.



and for anyone who says that its not only airflow that determines power output, show me a 2 liter inline 4 with pump gas, no nos, no turbo, no supercharger, nothing other than the valves, block, head, cams and other things that make up its n/a ass putting out more hp than a 4 liter v8. Specifically the two factory 4 liter v8s made during this modern efi age, the toyota 4 liter that made 290 hp, and the jaguar 4 liter v8 that made the same power. Do whatever you want to that 2 liter, high compression, agressive cams, high rev limiter, but you will be very hard pressed to break that 290 hp. Obviously with 14:1 compression and a 10k rev limiter its been done, but put an exhaust system on that same v8 and your ####ed again. Its much harder to get power out of that little 2 liter, right? Thats because the airflow is so much less than the v8. There is no replacement for displacement, there is no replacement for a big turbo. The fact that your claiming to have done this on a stock 1g 7 bolt block is just what puts me over the top. It can't be done, period. You also, posted your timing degrees, so we know your not cranking that up to put down these numbers, and your running the stock compression. It just can't be done..

Maybe if you sprayed liquid nitrogen or something 100+ degrees below 0 in there and cranked the timing up to 30-35 degrees, you could get the proper compression ratios to make that much power with that little airflow, but you posted your timing advance, and it just wasn't enough. Would you mind posting your afr numbers or boost graph?

also, no one has asked, WHAT hks cams are they, not that theres enough of a hp difference between the 264's and 280's to make these results realistic, .

 

[BringBackDSM]

Haha, great info I cannot wait to see the reply.

 

[pboglio]

I guess I should have posted a mod list:

1994 TSI AWD
Bone Stock 122k mile longblock w/ HKS Cams
FP 16g w/ FP Manifold
BR FMIC
JMF Intake
DSMlink w/ 1000cc Tuned by yours truely
VP C16
MAFT
Stock Flywheel
Still has Balance Shafts

I see 2 mods right here that would overextend a turbo well beyond its compressor map limit: MAFT and JMF intake. The MAFT (blow thru mode) would add about 5-7% more massflow to the turbo's top end. As far as the short runner intake manifold goes, it makes it's own boost and definitely is helping to hold the boost higher into the rpm band. At 5700 rpm, say 40*F air temps & 30 psi, a 2.0 liter motor can pull 52-53 lb/min. That's enough for 460 w.h.p. I don't see voodoo rocket science here, just awesome parts selection.

 

[tstkl]

you do realize that they rate a compressors flow map based on the compressor housing only, right? They don't hook it up to a motor and measure the flow through the stock maf, that would suck dick. A turbo's map is created to show the limits of its flow ratings, both sides of the map, the low and high. part selection is irrelivant to maximum flow ratings.