My Tuning help/discussion thread

[Chicken Patty]

Hello guys,

I recently received my full version of ECM Link V3. I got the car dialed in and tuned tonight and I must say, I've never felt it pull this hard before .

Now what brings me here is that as soon as I'm able to find my flash drive and pull the logs from my buddies laptop I will be posting them to discuss it a bit with you guys or maybe see if I can better any part of my tuning based on advice or what not. Now in the mean time since I don't have any logs in my possession, I do have a few questions:

1-How accurate is the Horsepower/Torque calculator from the ECM Link software? Reason is that the logger on my last pull estimated 347 HP (didn't look at the torque). I had one pull that estimated 367 HP, but I had about 2º of Timing Retard (Gave it another º of timing across the higher power band, had to back it off to how it was before to eliminate the knocking)
2-After reading the ECM Tuning "WIKI" site I am still unclear on how to dial in the MAF. I know that you run a log for a few minutes during cruising conditions in Closed Loop and then you run the adjuster and it gives you the "recommended" points of adjustments. But what I don't get is after you adjust that, do you need to set the "Global Scaler" or is that before, or do you simply not touch that?

I'd appreciate any help you guys can get, I'll see how soon I can post up my log. Thanks fellas.

 

[gofer]

1. Your HP/TQ values being logged are as accurate as YOU make them, notice if you double click either in your logs theres a sub-menu with a few things that can be changed. The most important thing to change in both the HP/TQ logged values is the drivetrain loss to 0 and get an ACCURATE vehicle weight with you in the car. Then when your doing your long 3rd gear pulls (3k to 7k) you must ensure the road is as flat as possible, then you can say your hp/tq estimates are fairly accurate.
2. The global scalar isn't typically used unless you've got a completely hacked 2g MAF or your running a GM MAF. It just cleans up your sliders and basically centers the "power curve" so it cleans things up a bit. It will do it automatically for you just by clicking the Change and Auto buttons.

 

[Chicken Patty]

1. Your HP/TQ values being logged are as accurate as YOU make them, notice if you double click either in your logs theres a sub-menu with a few things that can be changed. The most important thing to change in both the HP/TQ logged values is the drivetrain loss to 0 and get an ACCURATE vehicle weight with you in the car. Then when your doing your long 3rd gear pulls (3k to 7k) you must ensure the road is as flat as possible, then you can say your hp/tq estimates are fairly accurate.
2. The global scalar isn't typically used unless you've got a completely hacked 2g MAF or your running a GM MAF. It just cleans up your sliders and basically centers the "power curve" so it cleans things up a bit. It will do it automatically for you just by clicking the Change and Auto buttons.

See, I didn't know that about the HP/TQ calculator, I'll have to look into that and set it up. The road I was doing a few pulls in for sure was flat as hell, at least I don't have to worry about that if I go back.

As far as the Global Scaler, I am running a 3" GM MAF. So how do I do it. I run the log first, then open the MAF COMP Adjuster. First do I change the Global Scaler and then adjust the points recommended, or vice versa?

 

[gofer]

The global scalar just makes things look (no h0mo) prettier and gives you even more room to adjust the sliders, so you can go from...

THIS.

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to

THIS.

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To do it correctly you just ADJUST your MAFComp sliders first and then next to the Global Scalar window click the Change... button and Auto Adjust, the wizard will do it for you.

 

[Chicken Patty]

I'm still new to this so this stuff looks a bit crazy . I came from mastering S-AFC's, so I never have messed around with MAF comp and stuff. So do you suggest changing the "Global Scaler" or just leaving it as is?

Another thing. When I first installed ECM Link I had my factory injectors on (waiting on o-rings and fuel rail spacers, I was missing one) and the launch control I had it at 5500 RPM's. I would use it and the a/f would just dip rich (Open Loop) which is fine. Now with the 750's the wideband goes all the way lean (dashed lines) but you look out the back and it's pumping out tons of black smoke. So what the hell is going on there? I'm puzzled. I'm scared to use Launch Control and have such lean condition and damage something.

1. Your HP/TQ values being logged are as accurate as YOU make them, notice if you double click either in your logs theres a sub-menu with a few things that can be changed. The most important thing to change in both the HP/TQ logged values is the drivetrain loss to 0 and get an ACCURATE vehicle weight with you in the car. Then when your doing your long 3rd gear pulls (3k to 7k) you must ensure the road is as flat as possible, then you can say your hp/tq estimates are fairly accurate.
2. The global scalar isn't typically used unless you've got a completely hacked 2g MAF or your running a GM MAF. It just cleans up your sliders and basically centers the "power curve" so it cleans things up a bit. It will do it automatically for you just by clicking the Change and Auto buttons.

Gofer,

I went ahead and set the vehicle weight accurately. Got the cars curb weight from the "1000 DSM Questions" site to get a good starting point as far as weight. Then I added my weight and the person that was driving.

Now the only thing I'm questioning from your above post is the following. By default "drivetrain loss" is set to 0.20. Like this the last pull I did today with 0.0 º of timing retard across the band (no knock, yay!) it estimated 372 HP. If I brought down the "drivetrain loss" to 0 how you told me, it only says like 270 HP or something. That can't be right? The car is pulling with wayyyyyyyy more than 270 HP, that I can guarantee. Actually 372 HP as estimated feels pretty close to about what the car is pulling, could be a bit lower, but def. over 300, way over 300 HP.

 

[Chicken Patty]

Alright fellas, here's the latest log off my car. Boost according to the AEM Tru boost is 19-20 psi. A/F ratio is between 10.9-11.1.

The only thing I can see a bit out of place at least to me is that my IDC seems a bit too high for 750's don't you think?

 

[Imback]

Yes it does seem high for the amount of lb's your pushing. You also need to adjust your tps since your reading 97 through out the pull. Cheek your base fuel pressure. Is this on gas?

 

[dsmtalon2008]

Yes it does seem high for the amount of lb's your pushing. You also need to adjust your tps since your reading 97 through out the pull. Cheek your base fuel pressure. Is this on gas?

Not really.... 45 lb/min should be around 370 ish whp if im not crazy.

 

[Chicken Patty]

Yes it does seem high for the amount of lb's your pushing. You also need to adjust your tps since your reading 97 through out the pull. Cheek your base fuel pressure. Is this on gas?

Well I am on the stock regulator now, but when I had the adjustable regulator it was 43psi. Yes, this is on pump gas.

 

[gofer]

Gofer please help...

Launch control AFR's will be lean, the ECU keeps it at the RPM you set it at by pulsing the injectors on and off.
By setting your drivetrain loss to 0% in logged hp/tq estimates its going to log CLOSE to what awhp would be on a dyno. Remember its just an estimate so using it to tell your buddies how much power the car has might make you look like a jackass after it actually goes up on the dyno. The important thing is that you keep the settings for the hp/tq estimates the same once you start tuning, because believe it or not you can use them. Just use the same flat road to do your WOT pulls on and as you increase boost or advance timing watch the hp/tq numbers and see where your getting hp/tq gains in the powerband.

I just came into work and don't have access to dsmlink on the computers here so unfortunately I can't look at your log until tonight. If your MAFComp sliders aren't tuned properly your IDC's and Airflow will be off. BoostEst and actual boost need to line up from 5k-5.5k to get airflow and IDC's fairly accurate, even then intake temps considerably higher or lower than 75* will effect airflow readings too. Spooling your 50 trim at just 20psi I can almost be certain your MAFComp isn't tuned correctly if your saying Airflow is around 48 lbs/min.

I'll take a look at your log later if someone else doesn't come in here and help you.

 

[Chicken Patty]

Thanks gofer, appreciate your help big time.

As far as launch control that's fine.

I am also certain my MAF is way off I just don't know how to dial it in, not very clear on that. Also, how are you guys telling the airflow?

Once I can get the MAF dialed in I'm sure things will be much better .

As far as horsepower, I only use it to see if the car is gaining or not. Now that you say that over 5500 the boost should match if the MAF is dialed in, well it doesn't. Up to it's really off reading about 30 psi! If you display only HP and torque #'s you'll see the car starts to fall off a bit earlier than I think it should. Possibly due to the MAF not being dialed in.

 

[snowborder714]

You need to get your wideband into the ECU so you can log it

And there's a value called Airflow. Just move along the graph and read the number. If it's not configured to be lbs/min, I'd suggest changing it (right click on any value below graph > Unit Preferences).

 

[Chicken Patty]

@ snowborder
I just don't remember seeing that value. I'll check again. Maybe I'm already logging it just not in lbs/min

 

[gofer]

Not trying to be rude ChickenPatty but you need to ZERO your MAFComp, Timing, & Fuel sliders and start over as well as revert your TimingMaxOct map back to stock as well.
Before you start posting WOT 3rd gear pulls asking for help post an idle log so we can get the very basic running right first, you've got to crawl before you can walk. Besides, its impossible to help you tune your WOT MAFComp sliders without a MAP or WB o2 sensor being logged.
I'm not sure what the guys said over at dsmlink forums but I think you need to start over, I'd like to see an idle log of your car at full operating temp and go from there. Then once you start logging your WB we'll do WOT tuning...

 

[Chicken Patty]

Not trying to be rude ChickenPatty but you need to ZERO your MAFComp, Timing, & Fuel sliders and start over as well as revert your TimingMaxOct map back to stock as well.
Before you start posting WOT 3rd gear pulls asking for help post an idle log so we can get the very basic running right first, you've got to crawl before you can walk. Besides, its impossible to help you tune your WOT MAFComp sliders without a MAP or WB o2 sensor being logged.
I'm not sure what the guys said over at dsmlink forums but I think you need to start over, I'd like to see an idle log of your car at full operating temp and go from there. Then once you start logging your WB we'll do WOT tuning...

I'll go ahead and do this on the weekend then. I wasn't able to hook up the wideband today to the ECU. I'll revert.

 

[gofer]

Sorry for the bad news and I know its exciting starting to tune the car at WOT but for reliability its all about attention to detail. We'll get your idle and cruise TOONED and then move onto WOT balls to the wall pulls I promise, just get that WB logging (you can use my write up in the tech articles) and you'll be set!

 

[Chicken Patty]

Sorry for the bad news and I know its exciting starting to tune the car at WOT but for reliability its all about attention to detail. We'll get your idle and cruise TOONED and then move onto WOT balls to the wall pulls I promise, just get that WB logging (you can use my write up in the tech articles) and you'll be set!

Naw bro it ain't bad news .

I already saw how to wire up the wideband and stuff, just need the time. Unforunately I just got home and I think I might need a new tranny now. Tranny is making a really bad chattering noise when in 3rd gear, just started randomly, I don't recall the car giving any sign of trouble till just this.

 

[gofer]

...bad chattering noise when in 3rd gear.

We can still get your idle tuned and ready to rock for the new tranny!
If you plan on launching the car and the funds are available, since you might be replacing/rebuilding the transmission, let me be the first to suggest you get a 4 spider diff so you can get away with running DR's or QTP's in the future without blowing the stock 2 spider diff up.

 

[Chicken Patty]

We can still get your idle tuned and ready to rock for the new tranny!
If you plan on launching the car and the funds are available, since you might be replacing/rebuilding the transmission, let me be the first to suggest you get a 4 spider diff so you can get away with running DR's or QTP's in the future without blowing the stock 2 spider diff up.

Naw dude, I just need my car running for now bro I'll do a launch or two eventually but nothing with grippy tires or excessive amounts of launches. I found one locally already, 64k miles (claimed). It's coming off a car that was crashed in the rear, parts car. It's also a '97 like mine.

Here's the idle log you wanted. Direct Access tables reset to factory values, everything zeroed out ( as far as I remember doing so). Let me know what you want me to do from here.

 

[gofer]

Zero your injector deadtime (yea I know its crazy) too but keep the global at -39.8% where its at.

In your log you'll notice your MAFRaw value is around 500Hz which is normal for a GM MAF however, your AirflowPerRev is around 0.28 ~ 0.29 gm/rev at idle. On a 2.0L M/T DSM AirflowPerRev at idle should be around 0.25 gm/rev and to adjust it you'll want to use your MAFComp table to correct the airflow. Your idling at 500Hz where AirflowPerRev is at 0.29 gm/rev so you'll want to adjust the 500Hz slider about -9.4% and smooth the other out so theres no extreme jumps from point to point. Since your car idles at 500Hz you'll want to adjust your 50Hz to 400Hz sliders to -9.4% too to keep the MAFComp table looking nice and clean. Below is what your MAFComp should look like from pulling the information from that idle log you attached...

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Now that your AirflowPerRev is on point its time to get your CombinedFT to 0% (+/- 2%) while your cars idling. To do that you open your Fuel tab and increase injector deadtime until CombinedFT stays around 0%.

After you do the above you'll want to get more MAFRaw info so you can tune your cruise CombinedFT's. To get a better log go into your DA OpenLoopThresholds tab and change them to the below settings. KEEP IN MIND YOU'LL WANT TO CHANGE THESE BACK TO STOCK AFTER THIS LOG.

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Post your log after you do the cruise log driving around for 10min up and down hills and going highway speeds as well, then we'll be able to get your cruise tuned.

 

[Chicken Patty]

Zero your injector deadtime (yea I know its crazy) too but keep the global at -39.8% where its at.

In your log you'll notice your MAFRaw value is around 500Hz which is normal for a GM MAF however, your AirflowPerRev is around 0.28 ~ 0.29 gm/rev at idle. On a 2.0L M/T DSM AirflowPerRev at idle should be around 0.25 gm/rev and to adjust it you'll want to use your MAFComp table to correct the airflow. Your idling at 500Hz where AirflowPerRev is at 0.29 gm/rev so you'll want to adjust the 500Hz slider about -9.4% and smooth the other out so theres no extreme jumps from point to point. Since your car idles at 500Hz you'll want to adjust your 50Hz to 400Hz sliders to -9.4% too to keep the MAFComp table looking nice and clean. Below is what your MAFComp should look like from pulling the information from that idle log you attached...

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Now that your AirflowPerRev is on point its time to get your CombinedFT to 0% (+/- 2%) while your cars idling. To do that you open your Fuel tab and increase injector deadtime until CombinedFT stays around 0%.

After you do the above you'll want to get more MAFRaw info so you can tune your cruise CombinedFT's. To get a better log go into your DA OpenLoopThresholds tab and change them to the below settings. KEEP IN MIND YOU'LL WANT TO CHANGE THESE BACK TO STOCK AFTER THIS LOG.

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Post your log after you do the cruise log driving around for 10min up and down hills and going highway speeds as well, then we'll be able to get your cruise tuned.

Awesome, so far that's the same way I had previously dialed in my idle. I never spent too much time on the cruising part, but the idle I know was perfect I'll get you a log of the idle later today, however the cruise is gonna have to wait

 

[jjrock5]

There's a lot of good info in here.

Subscribed.

 

[Chicken Patty]

There's a lot of good info in here.

Subscribed.

Same thing I did before I got DSM Link. ...and all threads had gofer in them .

So far what gofer explained above I already had done just like that, months before I got my DSM Link I watched 'ALL' their tutorials, read them all and read some info in threads. Of course you can't master the software in a day or two and that's why I'm here, but for being a first time user I think I'm doing ok. Car sure was pulling a heck of a lot better and safer over my AFC, I just need to sharpen up my skills a bit. Gofer is helping me do that

Stick around, it'll be a nice ride

 

[Chicken Patty]

Gofer,

I'll have the log of the adjusted idle and the cruise log as well tomorrow bro. Did it today but I'll get the file tomorrow from my buddies laptop. I'll post them then.

 

[gofer]

Gofer,

I'll have the log of the adjusted idle and the cruise log as well tomorrow bro. Did it today but I'll get the file tomorrow from my buddies laptop. I'll post them then.

Sounds good.