Tuning help on my laser

[RickClarke23]

Hello all i recently purchased a laser and ham having major problems tuning it for more than 15psi

Mods are:
Big16g turbo mated to a tubular manifold with a Tial 38mm wastegate
Greddy profec-b does the boost controlling
Egt gauge
logger
Safc
Maf-t
550cc injectors
190lph Fuel pump
Fuel pressure regulator set at 45psi (explain why later)
Fmic
Magnus style intake manifold (looks like an identic copy with no sign of a magnus brand)

ok on to my problem....i cant tune the car to run more than 15psi without hitting fuel cut

My safc settings are -18 to -20 on the low throttle which works out great (low, mid and high trims are 101, 100, 104 respectively) my maf-t is zerod out in blow through mode (set for stock 450's). And i am tuned for zero knock at 15psi but im having to add fuel to accomplish this????
My high trims are:
1k 2k 3k 4k 5k 6k 7k
+6 +9 +11 +13 +12 +11 +9

i bumped up my Fuel pressure to see if it would help me neg. out some points on the safc. I have checked for boost leaks (none holds 20psi for 40 sec). If i try to negative out the safc from these settings i start getting knock.
Why is this? I thought i would be able to run at least 20psi on the 550's with the fuel pressure bumped up but i cant. But anyways the car runs VERY well at 15psi and dosent catch traction till midway through 3rd (fwd). But you know i am aching to try out 20psi if 15psi pulls this hard. Oh btw my Egts are around 1500 at the top of 4th

 

[hottboost]

That seems like alot on the low settings? Are your fuel trims at 100% at those settings. Also have you did a boost leak and compression test? The perfect fuel trim is 100% on a
1G and 0 on a 2G.

 

[hottboost]

Just seen where you posted your fuel trims. Sorry

 

[hottboost]

Check out the definative tuning guide. You could set your boost close to where you want it, Do a basline correction for the injectors and then try to tune from there. Decide if you are lean or rich and work from there.

 

[RickClarke23]

i have to take out more on the part throttle (low) since i raised my Base fuel pressure from 38 to 45. And i have done the tuning guide and it says -18% correction rate so i dunno. My part throttle is fine and so is my 15psi tune but i cant run over that amount or i hit fuel cut since im having to add fuel in. But at 15psi on these settings i have Zero knock.

And yes i have done a boost leak test and i held 20psi for 45seconds

 

[hottboost]

Can you see you IDC's. Just curious as to what they are at 15PSI?

 

[RickClarke23]

at 15psi it says they are like 93%????

 

[RickClarke23]

also on my log that i pulled earlier it shows the Hz on my airflow maxxing out at 1604hz from 4k to 7k?? Could it be that my 3" Mafs is going bad?

 

[hottboost]

Your IDC is a little high. Most people shoot for 80%-85%. Thats why your hitting fuel cut above 15PSI because your IDC's are hitting 100%. I dont have much expierence with the 3"Mafs but It could be possible. Can you post a log at 15psi so we can see whats going on?

 

[RickClarke23]

right now with the low settings at -20% across the rpm band and the high settings at what i posted i have 3 counts of knock max and my egt's are like 1450 degrees at the top of 3rd Also I am also getting 19-20 degrees of timing at the end of 3rd with these settings. anytime i try to lower the settings out at all the car has like 30+ counts of knock and feels horrible. And my Hz maxxed out at 1604 on my logs are kinda wierd also.

So either i dont really have 550's (which dosent make sense since im at -20 on the low settings and my fuel trims are fine)

Or my 3" gm mafs is bad

or my car is just stupid

Yea i will post a log a little bit later

 

[RickClarke23]

i also noticed that my 3" gm mafs dosent have the honeycombs in it so does that have an effect similar to removing the combs on a 2g mafs?

 

[hottboost]

If you can post your entire log so I can see your o2's and how timing climbs would probally help. Also maybe try turning your fuel preasure down to 43PSi.

 

[kraka]

If you have zero knock, you might just be way too rich...

The adding fuel part doesnt seem to make sense, but trust me, I have a similar situation, sometimes...

Im the opposite tho, with my 560's, Im having to add 1-20% fuel at idle, but I have to lean it out -15 - 20+% at WOT

Because I have to add so much fuel, I also thought my injectors werent what they're labeled, but now Im reconsidering...

A wideband o2 seemed to solve most of my tuning issues...You will really be able to find out what your a/f is, and tune based off that

 

[hottboost]

Yeah that would be the best way to go!

 

[RickClarke23]

AHHHHH I think i got it figured out. Last night i got a new 3" gm mas sensor from a Grand AM and when i went to put it on it was smaller than the one i had. After checkin i found the one i had was a 3.5" sensor and my maf-t was set for a 3". This is probably the culprit since i put the new sensor on and i was runnin pig rich.....will let you all know how it goes after i do some pulls

 

[RickClarke23]

my problems are not gone. With the new mafs in place i was sure my troubles would be solved.....but that would have been easy....now the car feels super sluggish with my Afc zero'd out because i choose to compensate for 540's with the maf-t. After some tinkering with the high throttle setting i got it to pull decently with little knock. But im still having to add +12% across the board on the high side????

 

[RickClarke23]

Here is a log from earlier??

Time RPM TPS Knock Timing Inj D/C Airflow Inj D/C
00:00.3 3156 100 1 21 28.33 718 28.33
00:00.6 3281 100 0 20 32.24 788 32.24
00:00.8 3344 100 0 18 36.45 889 36.45
00:01.1 3500 100 9 14 44.86 1027 44.86
00:01.4 3594 100 9 12 49.15 1160 49.15
00:01.7 3750 100 8 14 52.09 1223 52.09
00:02.0 3875 100 8 14 55.48 1305 55.48
00:02.3 4063 100 7 14 59.9 1368 59.9
00:02.5 4125 100 7 14 61.7 1431 61.7
00:02.8 4313 100 8 13 65.41 1519 65.41
00:03.1 4313 100 8 14 65.41 1512 65.41
00:03.4 4500 100 9 15 69.22 1569 69.22
00:03.7 4719 100 9 15 73.62 1607 73.62
00:03.9 4719 100 9 14 73.62 1607 73.62
00:04.1 4813 100 8 14 77.13 1607 77.13
00:04.3 4844 100 8 14 77.63 1607 77.63
00:04.5 5000 100 7 14 80.13 1607 80.13
00:04.7 5188 100 7 15 84.26 1607 84.26
00:05.0 5188 100 7 15 84.26 1607 84.26
00:05.2 5188 100 6 17 83.14 1607 83.14
00:05.4 5344 100 6 17 86.8 1607 86.8
00:05.6 5438 100 6 17 88.32 1607 88.32
00:05.8 5469 100 5 18 87.64 1607 87.64
00:06.0 5563 100 5 18 90.35 1607 90.35
00:06.2 5563 100 5 18 89.15 1607 89.15
00:06.4 5688 100 4 18 91.15 1607 91.15
00:06.5 5719 100 5 19 92.89 1607 92.89
00:06.7 5781 100 5 18 92.64 1607 92.64
00:06.9 5875 100 5 20 94.15 1607 94.15
00:07.1 5938 100 4 20 96.44 1607 96.44
00:07.3 5969 100 4 20 94.36 1607 94.36
00:07.5 6063 100 4 18 94.58 1607 94.58
00:07.6 6125 100 3 19 94.22 1607 94.22
00:07.8 6188 100 4 18 93.85 1607 93.85
00:08.0 6188 100 4 18 92.56 1607 92.56
00:08.2 6375 100 3 19 93.98 1607 93.98
00:08.4 6313 100 3 18 91.75 1607 91.75
00:08.6 6281 100 3 17 91.28 1607 91.28
00:08.8 6500 100 3 17 94.47 1607 94.47
00:09.0 6563 100 3 17 93.96 1607 93.96
00:09.2 6625 100 3 16 94.85 1607 94.85

 

[RickClarke23]

alright i got everything tunned pretty decent with 1 count of knock and 18 degrees of timing at 6500rpm....but im maxxing out my 550's as they are at 95% duty at 15.5 psi.....i am almost 80% sure they are 550's since they look nothing like my stock injectors. Also my fuel pressure is at 45psi? Is this normal to be maxxing out 550's at 15 pounds on a big 16g?

 

[andymoraitis]

I just wanted to point out that you're not knocking 1 count, but 10 counts when it pulls one degree of timing. The 2G ECU holds timing at 7 counts and then pulls one degree for every three counts above that (10,13,16,19 all the way up to 43 counts). Your timing dips at 6000 or so and again as you approach redline. If your IDC's are that high you may not have 550's as you thought and are overcompensating in the wrong direction. For reference, 450's are generally maxed out at 15-16 psi on a Big 16G.

On my old 2.0 setup with stock cams and the Big 16G, I could run 25-26 psi at 18 degrees of advance before maxing out my IDC's on 550's.

It appears to either be a fuel volume or injector volume issue. It could also be an MAFT issue regarding removed honeycombs. Perhaps someone who tunes with an MAFT can jump in and offer their feedback. A wideband would tell you for sure.

Hope that helps,

Andy

 

[RickClarke23]

this is on my 1g laser (1990) not on my 2g talon so the knock is correct. And the laser probably does not have 550's like i thought or else there is no way i should be maxxing them out at only 15psi

 

[Ultimatedsm]

If you have your 2G MAF laying around, trying putting that in and see what happens.

 

[hottboost]

I agree. I dont see how you could be maxing out your 550's at 15PSI. If you can pull your injectors they should have a serial # or model # on them that you could cross reference with the company. For example if they are FIC's you could call them and try to match the #. Thats the only thing I can think of right now.

 

[RickClarke23]

well i will pull the injectors tomorrow and cross reference them and if they are in fact 550's then i will pull the 2g mafs that i have on my 2g talon and run that and see if it does anything.

 

[hottboost]

Let me know! Good luck.

 

[kraka]

Weird...I just did a log and it said I was getting 82% injector duty cycle on my 560's and a 14b at 17psi.....

Im not running rich enough for a boost leak, so it must be something else? Maybe my original 77k mile fuel filter?