My old highschool car

[We're on Boost]

Let's check something else - take a couple good pics of your Walbro 255 that you have. Let's take a good look at it. We'd look to see if it's the current type that's been sold for the last few years, or if it's the older type. We'd look at the clocking of the inlet and outlet pipes. The install kit (basically the sock and the electrical connector with pigtails). Any labeling or parts numbers that are on it. There might be some GSSxxx number right on the body of it but those are hard to read, see if you can read it.

 

[OhhShmit]

Absolutely I don’t blame ya boss! I absolutely appreciate you always taking your time to respond back accordingly!!! Please let me know what’s going on and keep me updated, like I said as of now I’ll just focus on getting the trans and struts in until I hear back on how to handle this fuel situation. I’ll go and take some pictures for ya now!

 

[We're on Boost]

I've been looking into the 190 a little more because information about it is a mess, even in the info from the actual company - TI Automotive. Their current pdf catalog shows it as a "Low Pressure" pump for maximum system pressure of 50 psi (which is too low). Their interactive applications listing on the same website shows it for the 1990 Talon as a "High Pressure" pump for max sys pressure of 87 psi. But scroll down to the Mitsubishi Eclipse and they don't show a 190 at all!

Extreme PSI website shows it for 1g AWD with no pressure numbers given but they say "especially good for all-motor setups" (meaning non-turbo, which would usually suggest a low pressure pump).
Extreme PSI shows it as the GSS278 which agrees with the part number given by TI Automotive for the model with 180 degree clocking between the inlet and outlet pipes (they are on opposite sides of the pump) which is what you'd want in the 1g AWD.

The 50 psi max system pressure is not at all like I see in the old 190 chart that was the official Walbro chart made in 1996. From that chart, I'd say max system pressure of about 70 psi. Which would be enough. And that agrees with the RRE info which was cooked up in I guess the early 2000's.

So it's a mess.

Can you tell me, what was the GSS number of the 190 that you ordered? And could you give me a link to the web page that you bought it from? I'd like to see what kind of info they show, and if they had a part number for the install kit that they would send you.

 

[OhhShmit]

Absolutely the SKU# GSS278 and here is the link it says AWD https://www.realstreetperformance.c...990-1994-eclipse-gsx-talon-tsi-awd-4g63t.html

 

[RamenPride]

I just found the Road Race Engineering fuel pump comparison chart. This is great stuff.

Shameless plug for a cheap option .

Denso fuel pump

Old school Denso 150lph fuel pump (at 12v, flows 210 with a re-wire). Never installed, just been sitting for years. Direct replacement for 1g's, but will also fit 2g's (its bigger and you'll need to cut off the connector and use ring terminals)...

www.dsmtuners.com

 

[OhhShmit]

Shameless plug for a cheap option .

Denso fuel pump

Old school Denso 150lph fuel pump (at 12v, flows 210 with a re-wire). Never installed, just been sitting for years. Direct replacement for 1g's, but will also fit 2g's (its bigger and you'll need to cut off the connector and use ring terminals)...

www.dsmtuners.com

Gary what about this one?

 

[We're on Boost]

Absolutely the SKU# GSS278 and here is the link it says AWD https://www.realstreetperformance.c...990-1994-eclipse-gsx-talon-tsi-awd-4g63t.html

Ok well that page looks pretty good, the info looks right for the GSS278, and that is the version of the 190 that would physically fit in the pump hanger. The install kit looks like the right one too, and it is the same install kit that the Walbro 255 uses on the AWD 1g. That install kit will probably be available forever and easy to buy, which is a plus because the sock on the inlet sometimes needs to be replaced.
It says they don't have the pump in stock, so I suppose your order is a backorder, which they probably could cancel pretty easy.
But if not, if they aren't going to cancel it, I think you could go ahead and use that pump and it would probably be fine, as long as they send the right one, an actual GSS278 which has the inlet and outlet pipes clocked 180 degrees from each other (opposite sides of the barrel).
I don't think I believe the 50 psi max thing that they show in the pdf catalog. It just seems way wrong.
So that's one way to go that should be ok.

I looked into using the Denso 150 which I have no experience with but - I'll post some things here in a few.

 

[We're on Boost]

So the Old school Denso 150lph fuel pump (195130-0990) is on the RRE chart by the same name, and it looks very similar to the Walbro 190 as far as flow rate at different pressures.
I don't have any experience with it, but apparently it fits in physically exactly the same as the original 1g AWD pump.
I still have my original 1g AWD pump and I have the original rubber foot that goes at the bottom of it, and the original plastic filter on the inlet, and the original plastic spacer that goes on the outlet pipe under the o-ring. So I took some pics of that stuff just now to show you. And if you did want to try this pump, I could even send you those parts if RP doesn't have them, or if they are in bad shape. The rubber and plastic parts that I have for it are in good shape but man it's almost a miracle, I don't know how. I've never taken the inlet filter off because I was afraid I'd either crack it or lose it. There is a little metal lock ring that holds it on (same as with the Walbro install kits) and I don't know how to get new replacement rings like that except that they come in the Walbro install kits! There's probably a way.
The plastic filter on the inlet, and the rubber foot that goes underneath, are parts that you probably can't find new anywhere. Not sure about that. The rubber foot is not just some random rubber thing - it is a precise molding that fits the bottom of the pump to the hanger.
The Walbro pumps use a precise rubber molding there also but it is much thicker, it's not interchangeable with the thin rubber one used by the Denso.

You'll see in my pics, the original 1g wiring to it was by ring terminals, and I have one still there with the wire cut off.

The Denso 150, according to RRE's chart, uses about 3 amps more current than the stock 1g pump. It's current usage can get up to 10 or 11 amps. That is also about 2 more amps than the Walbro 190 uses. Either one is probably "ok" with the stock wiring, but I don't know what the stock fuse is on that circuit!
So let's find that out first. How many amps is the stock fuse in the 1g AWD fuel pump circuit?
Pics in a few min.

 

[OhhShmit]

I’m reading all of it and keeping us boss! Personally I’ll just do the Walbro 190 as you and other have experience with it and the charts on it. Also when I got that Walbro 255 from nick it came with extra everything you mention to metal o ring an all, so I do have those for Ohh Shit moments . Also I realized my username does not have my actual name incase you ever wondered my name is Lucas. I’m 24 with 2 kiddos Have a beautiful wife, Own my 4 bedroom 2 bath house and have my associates in Criminal And Justice. Just living the dad life! Anyways will I also in ECMlink be adjusting the fuel pump also since it’s not stock anymore?
See it’s times like this when it comes to the tuning and adjusting I could just Face Call instead of blowing up everyone’s phone

 

[We're on Boost]

Here are the pics I just took of my original 1g AWD fuel pump, with the inlet filter still attached, and with the yellow plastic spacer on it that goes under the o-ring, and with the original o-ring on it (which is the same exact o-ring that Walbro gives you in their install kits).
I didn't show the little plastic cap that goes on the very top of the outlet pipe. I have it, but I couldn't get it on there! It fits too tight all of a sudden. Right, after 35 years. Well I took these parts off my car in 2009 and maybe the plastic shrunk a little. The plastic cap that comes with the Walbro install kit is exactly the same and I put one of those on just fine. Didn't show it in the pics though.

So if the Denso 150 is externally identical to this, this is how it would look, except without the rust I guess.
The last 2 pics are pretty good closeups of each end. You can see the lock ring that holds the inlet filter on pretty well in the last pic.



And I still don't know the stock fuse size.

 

[OhhShmit]

Where is the fuse at boss? If it’s accessible I can get you a picture real fast!

 

[OhhShmit]

From what I’m reading and seeing 20 amp, granite those are online feeds once again.

 

[We're on Boost]

Where is the fuse at boss? If it’s accessible I can get you a picture real fast!

I don't know, I mean it must be one of the little ones in the fuse box that is in the driver's footwell under the dash, way on the left. I went out and looked at mine, I just don't know which fuse it is!
But I'm pretty sure that the Walbro 190 will work with the stock fuse.

 

[OhhShmit]

Yeah from what I’ve seen and read I also agree with you it should be fine on the stock fuse.

 

[We're on Boost]

Personally I’ll just do the Walbro 190 as you and other have experience with it and the charts on it.

Awesome, we'll get to see how it goes! The install should be exactly the same as with the Walbro 255 except that you don't need to rewire (relay and stuff) for the 190.

Also when I got that Walbro 255 from nick it came with extra everything you mention to metal o ring an all, so I do have those for Ohh Shit moments

Also good. Although I'll send you o-rings that will actually work. 4mm x 7mm x 15mm nitrile o-rings. I had to buy like 150 of them to meet the minimum order so I can just send you 10 or whatever. This is pretty important because the o-rings that come in the Walbro install kit will leak. They are too thin.
Also I'll send you the piece of rubber hose that I cut to fit under the o-ring.
This is like what I showed in post #334.

Also I realized my username does not have my actual name incase you ever wondered my name is Lucas. I’m 24 with 2 kiddos Have a beautiful wife, Own my 4 bedroom 2 bath house and have my associates in Criminal And Justice. Just living the dad life!

Awesome again! When I say "Lucas" though I'm talking about Lucas English. So we might have to work around that
My name is Gary, which I think I showed in PMs, and I remember from there that you are Lucas.

Anyways will I also in ECMlink be adjusting the fuel pump also since it’s not stock anymore?

No. Nothing different there. If you are using the stock regulator still, then the fuel pressure will be the same or close.

See it’s times like this when it comes to the tuning and adjusting I could just Face Call instead of blowing up everyone’s phone

Well for me, I'm doing all this posting on a desktop computer. My cell phone, VOIP phone, and laptop are all just sitting here doing nothing.
But I do occasionally do Face calls in Facebook messenger and for that I use my cell phone. So we could do that at some point if it seemed like the best way for something. I'm kinda out of sync with everybody time zone wise. I'm a late person anyway (get up late and go to bed late) and then I'm in the west coast time zone so that makes it even more out of sync for anybody east of here.

 

[OhhShmit]

Awesome, we'll get to see how it goes! The install should be exactly the same as with the Walbro 255 except that you don't need to rewire (relay and stuff) for the 190.

Also good. Although I'll send you o-rings that will actually work. 4mm x 7mm x 15mm nitrile o-rings. I had to buy like 150 of them to meet the minimum order so I can just send you 10 or whatever. This is pretty important because the o-rings that come in the Walbro install kit will leak. They are too thin.
Also I'll send you the piece of rubber hose that I cut to fit under the o-ring.
This is like what I showed in post #334.


Awesome again! When I say "Lucas" though I'm talking about Lucas English. So we might have to work around that
My name is Gary, which I think I showed in PMs, and I remember from there that you are Lucas.


No. Nothing different there. If you are using the stock regulator still, then the fuel pressure will be the same or close.


Well for me, I'm doing all this posting on a desktop computer. My cell phone, VOIP phone, and laptop are all just sitting here doing nothing.
But I do occasionally do Face calls in Facebook messenger and for that I use my cell phone. So we could do that at some point if it seemed like the best way for something. I'm kinda out of sync with everybody time zone wise. I'm a late person anyway (get up late and go to bed late) and then I'm in the west coast time zone so that makes it even more out of sync for anybody east of here.

That’s totally understandable! Here is my Facebook boss! https://www.facebook.com/share/16pkyX8NCo/?mibextid=wwXIfr
Just thought it would be more easier when it comes to sending each other things and communication. I’m also a late guy myself as you can tell I respond almost whenever and whatever the time is . Once again Gary I can’t thank you enough for the years of support with nick on this car and now myself. It’s people like you who deserve raises an early retirement

 

[OhhShmit]

Also question, Are these cars known for kinda being a pain to start in the morning? I’ll elaborate a bit, so when you go to start the car for the first time it starts but then dies almost immediately. Second time it starts right up and idles just fine. Didn’t know if it was something to be concerned about considering colder weather approaching or if it was common.

 

[OhhShmit]

Also question, Are these cars known for kinda being a pain to start in the morning? I’ll elaborate a bit, so when you go to start the car for the first time it starts but then dies almost immediately. Second time it starts right up and idles just fine. Didn’t know if it was something to be concerned about considering colder weather approaching or if it was common.

I should also add this is not every time but has happened a couple times within the past couple weeks to make me wonder.

 

[We're on Boost]

Also question, Are these cars known for kinda being a pain to start in the morning? I’ll elaborate a bit, so when you go to start the car for the first time it starts but then dies almost immediately. Second time it starts right up and idles just fine. Didn’t know if it was something to be concerned about considering colder weather approaching or if it was common.

I don't think it's exactly normal, but my car does something that might be kind of related.
First of all, I never crank mine for more than 2 seconds at a time. If it doesn't start during that first crank, I'll let it rest for just like 2 seconds before giving it the 2nd crank. Then on the 2nd crank it will usually start immediately. I don't know what it is but my 1994 jeep is the same way!
I am using the Full V3 feature called "Post key-on prime time" set to 5 seconds. When it's a cold start I always wait the 5 seconds between when I first turn the key to ON and when I push the starter button. It's a good feature but my car still has that slightly odd hesitancy to go right away on the 1st crank.
In your case which is not exactly the same, the key-on prime time might help. It's not in V3Lite.
It's only in Full V3, on the Misc tab.

That reminds me, I'd suggest not buying any of the speed density parts just yet, because you really need to have a wideband going and demonstrated accurate before switching to SD.
Don't buy a wideband until we've had more time to talk about it. It should be a wideband that will log accurately on the EGR Temp input because you'll need the other inputs for things. For sure it shouldn't be the older type AEM that I still have. That one has a lousy analog section that doesn't always work on the 1g EGR Temp input.

But you could upgrade to Full V3 anytime and it wouldn't be a waste.
With Full V3 you might even try extending the range of the MAF by using MAF Clamp, which isn't in V3Lite.
In V3Lite you don't even have the Help section that describes how MAF Clamp works.

 

[We're on Boost]

The other way Full V3 might help with your cold starts is that we will then be able to see CrankingFuelAdjust.
We aren't seeing that in V3Lite.
I think yours is working but it's a good thing to actually see it in the logs.
It works kind of like a choke on a carburetor.

 

[OhhShmit]

Okay absolutely and you said I had to pay them and send a file? Could you elaborate on that one more time? And I should have mention that also it usually does start first bump on the button, but once it is started like I said it almost immediately dies personally I think because the RPM for some reason are very lire for the first couple seconds which is what’s killing it. Then on the second bump it’s completely fine on start up and idles normal. Also like I said this doesn’t happen often but I have noticed it.

 

[We're on Boost]

Okay absolutely and you said I had to pay them and send a file? Could you elaborate on that one more time?

Yes, you follow the process they show on this page.
There is an "add to cart" button there which is how you pay.

It says to pay first, but really I would start out by making sure you can get the firmware upgrade request file from your ecu first. You can grab this file from your ECU using the "Create firmware request" menu item in the ECU menu of the ECMLink application. Of course, you will need to be connected to your ECU to grab this file.

Then pay. Then attach the firmware upgrade request file to an email and send it to them.

Here's a shot of where you find "Create firmware request"
It's near the bottom of that drop-down menu:

 

[OhhShmit]

Yes, you follow the process they show on this page.
There is an "add to cart" button there which is how you pay.

It says to pay first, but really I would start out by making sure you can get the firmware upgrade request file from your ecu first. You can grab this file from your ECU using the "Create firmware request" menu item in the ECU menu of the ECMLink application. Of course, you will need to be connected to your ECU to grab this file.

Then pay. Then attach the firmware upgrade request file to an email and send it to them.

Here's a shot of where you find "Create firmware request"
It's near the bottom of that drop-down menu:

View attachment 776434

Perfect! I’ll be doing that this week and getting away from the V3lite! And also should I be looking for a Manuel boost controller or Electronic? I’ve read so many conflicting pages at this point

 

[We're on Boost]

should I be looking for a Manuel boost controller or Electronic?

Don't look for either one.
You'll be getting an electronic boost controller in V3 Full.
Then once you have V3 Full, when you want to go ahead with actually using the boost controller, then you would buy the Ingersoll Rand Boost Control Solenoid that ECM recommends.
That's going to be a little bit of a project because you really should create a better place to put the wastegate actuator hose to. It should go near the turbo, not to the intake manifold. I say "create" because I don't think you have a hose barb near the turbo right now. Usually the turbo will have one on the compressor outlet, like it shows in the pic I posted in post #389.

The other reason not to rush into it is because there isn't any boost controller that can reduce you boost. You are already in the "minimum boost" configuration except for the fact that the hose goes to the wrong place, which is giving you more boost during part-throttle than you should have. But at WOT it is probably acting pretty normal.
You can run with it like it is for a while, even though the hose is going to the wrong place - it isn't terrible, it's just not very good

 

[OhhShmit]

Don't look for either one.
You'll be getting an electronic boost controller in V3 Full.
Then once you have V3 Full, when you want to go ahead with actually using the boost controller, then you would buy the Ingersoll Rand Boost Control Solenoid that ECM recommends.
That's going to be a little bit of a project because you really should create a better place to put the wastegate actuator hose to. It should go near the turbo, not to the intake manifold. I say "create" because I don't think you have a hose barb near the turbo right now. Usually the turbo will have one on the compressor outlet, like it shows in the pic I posted in post #389.

The other reason not to rush into it is because there isn't any boost controller that can reduce you boost. You are already in the "minimum boost" configuration except for the fact that the hose goes to the wrong place, which is giving you more boost during part-throttle than you should have. But at WOT it is probably acting pretty normal.
You can run with it like it is for a while, even though the hose is going to the wrong place - it isn't terrible, it's just not very good

Okay perfect! Now knowing that I’ll just stop looking and could you elaborate on that hose? I wasn’t aware it was hooked up wrong, is it a pain to correctly do it or is that also something I shouldn’t be worried about currently?