My compound turbo set-up

[DSM_PWR]

Here's some good reading on their progress and more about compound setup:
Supraforums.com

Im considering having them make me a compound setup in the near future

 

[fergulus]

Thats just gorgeous! it's about damn time someone had the patience to actually go through with this.

 

[DSM_PWR]

....Even AMS gave up on their compound twin turbo set-up at Castrol Challenge....

I saw one of the AMS Compound setup designs and it wasn't very functional, not to say it would have never worked but their design lacked a few things ...

 

[99gst_racer]

Thanks for the comments, guys. I'm pretty excited to see what this set-up is capable of. I'll be aiming for around 65 lbs/min airflow and probably around 38 psi of boost.

Very understandable, how much time do you think you have invested in it so far?
I posted before your last pics, but the setup looks simply badass

That's a good question. I easily spent as much time planning it out as I did actually fabbing everything. I've just been spending spare time in the afternoons working on it since November, so I haven't really been keeping track of work time.

I was looking through your profile pictures the other day and saw this, awesome work. How fast does it spool?

I haven't had the set-up running yet, but I'm expecting to see around 25-30 psi of boost at around 3000-3300 rpms. Lets just hope my drivetrain doesn't scatter from the new-found low-rpm torque.

Yea indeed. I was also peepin your profile pics the other day and seen this. You bout ready to hit the key or what?

I'm finishing up the car this week and next week.

I also added Kelford 272 cams, Kiggly springs and retainers, ported head, L19 head studs, Dynatek ARC2, a second fuel pump, a second BOV, V3 Link, and Driveshaft Shop level 2 axles.

 

[99gst_racer]

The AMS twin set-up was a sequential set-up. It is similar, but not the same as a compound set-up.

To my knowledge, there has never been a compound turbo'd 4G63 before.

 

[cheap90gsx]

Nice! We need more pics.

 

[99gst_racer]

On to the wastegate re-circ tubes. Believe it or not, I came up with an idea using spaghetti to help create this notch.

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This thing is really starting to take shape!

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[99gst_racer]

Other re-circ tube tacked in place. This clears the power steering pump as well.

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And this is how it sits right now:

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[99gst_racer]

And this is what I came up with for the charge piping between turbos. Simple, effective, and it'll fit well.

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The B16G has been gone through. Now it's got a fresh rebuild (courtsey of Justin - jusmx141), a new 15* clipped turbine wheel, and a brand new 7cm2 turbine housing with a welded flapper. Soon to sport a polished compressor cover.

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[viperlp01]

Paul, just couldnt wait any longer .. Your gonna be at the lanes meet.. Can you get it done in time ... I must ask- Can i please get a ride in it!?

I seen this is person and damn is it sick... looks good man and good luck..

 

[rogergoochman]

that spaghetti trick was very cool. looks killer that manifold/turbo setup has to be a bi*** to move around haha

 

[Mr Peepers]

I've been drooling over this since you started, huge props and can't wait to see more progress!!!

 

[99gst_racer]

Pictures of the final downpipe design.

Everything seen in the first picture will be sent off to be jet-hot coated along with the compound turbo exhaust parts.

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Both turbos are now plumbed for oil.

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And this is EXACTLY how it sits right now. Picture taken a couple days ago.

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[TRSblader]

I almost hate looking at the pictures of the work in progress because they make me really want to see the finished product. Each picture just keeps getting better and better. This thing is nasty looking

 

[evileclipse909]

I am curious to see if the boost from the larger turbo causes the smaller turbo to self destruct. Also I see that rediator finding a new home once the downpipe is installed.

 

[bluegs03]

Any ideas?

now theres something different! Good luck with it, im still trying to wrap my head around the dynamics of how thats going to work but i think i understand! ok after thinking it thru i have a few questions. I understand the concept the smaller turbo spools up fast and is boosting then the larger turbo kicks a larger amount of boost at the engine when it finally spools.

My question is this, looking at the example from the diesel twin design, when the small turbo is spooled and say boosting 10psi, then the big turbo kicks in and kicks 30 psi straight into the smaller turbo, which would then go into the intercooler piping and eventually into the intake manifold.

How can the smaller turbo make use of the boost? Basically you got this tiny turbo which has an small efficiency range and is good for small boost, which is great until the extra 30 psi comes and crams it way into the small turbo, wouldnt any gain be lost from the larger turbo by trying to cram 40 psi into a turbo thats only meant for 10-20 psi aka 14b? it would be way out of its efficency range and the exhaust turbine housing wouldnt be able to flow that much right? Even if the 40 psi somehow made it threw the small turbo wouldnt this cause the small turbo to literally self destruct? Let me know if i need to rephrase the question for clarity.

 

[gsxtasy]

Any ideas?

The smaller turbo is compressing already compressed air, this multiplies the pressure ratio. So now the smaller turbo is spinning at the same speed it normally would be but has much more airflow. I think...read the article in the OP, it explains it pretty well.


Lookin good Paul!

 

[99gst_racer]

now theres something different! Good luck with it, im still trying to wrap my head around the dynamics of how thats going to work but i think i understand! ok after thinking it thru i have a few questions. I understand the concept the smaller turbo spools up fast and is boosting then the larger turbo kicks a larger amount of boost at the engine when it finally spools.

My question is this, looking at the example from the diesel twin design, when the small turbo is spooled and say boosting 10psi, then the big turbo kicks in and kicks 30 psi straight into the smaller turbo, which would then go into the intercooler piping and eventually into the intake manifold.

How can the smaller turbo make use of the boost? Basically you got this tiny turbo which has an small efficiency range and is good for small boost, which is great until the extra 30 psi comes and crams it way into the small turbo, wouldnt any gain be lost from the larger turbo by trying to cram 40 psi into a turbo thats only meant for 10-20 psi aka 14b? it would be way out of its efficency range and the exhaust turbine housing wouldnt be able to flow that much right? Even if the 40 psi somehow made it threw the small turbo wouldnt this cause the small turbo to literally self destruct? Let me know if i need to rephrase the question for clarity.

Think of it by way of pressure ratios. Take a single turbo car running at sea level - it's compressor inlet is taking in atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi), so it's a 1:1 ratio. The compressor then multiplies that pressure to create the boost that you read on your boost gauge. Now, imagine if that turbo was getting twice that much air (2:1 PR) because it's being fed by another compressor. It will then multiple that inlet pressure ratio by whatever it's pressure ratio is set as.

I plan to run each turbo at a 1.75 PR initially, and once I get into fine tuning, I plan to up the 60-1 to a 2:1 PR.

 

[viperlp01]

So i cant get a ride in it paul .... Ya i just read that article and it makes sense. Good explanation

 

[99gst_racer]

The smaller turbo is compressing already compressed air, this multiplies the pressure ratio. So now the smaller turbo is spinning at the same speed it normally would be but has much more airflow.

Bingo!

I am curious to see if the boost from the larger turbo causes the smaller turbo to self destruct. Also I see that rediator finding a new home once the downpipe is installed.

The smaller turbo doesn't care what it's inlet pressure is. Whether it be 10 psi, 14.7 psi, or 25 psi, it will opperate the same and continue to compound whatever it is fed. Diesel guys have been doing this for years and years.

The downpipe clears the radiator just fine. I did have to indent the radiator a bit with a torch and a ball peen hammer to clear the T4 turbine housing, though. It's pretty much a tight squeeze everything with this set-up. It would fit much nicer in a 1G engine bay.

 

[hdoerr]

In my opinion this type of setup creates a more linear power curve and thereby prevents tractions loss in the exact manor that DSM_PWR stated. The other benefit is that the very same linear power curve limits the sudden & nasty drive train killing power spikes that you would expect from a single turbo system.

 

[99gst_racer]

So i cant get a ride in it paul .... Ya i just read that article and it makes sense. Good explanation

Hell yeah I'll give you a ride in it. I owe alot of rides at this point. I'm gonna feel like a taxi for the first month.

 

[viperlp01]

Ill just have to get my ass up and out to hartford. I have my plate full of shit to do for 2 weeks so i will give you some time to let the other guys get some rides ... Ill will hit you up. Thanks man. OO ya are you going to have it ready for Lanes??

 

[habitatguy187]

What are you planning to do for cooling? E-85, meth? I would think that the air would be twice as hot since it's going through two compressors. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[viperlp01]

Last time i asked him on our local forum about heat he said it really wouldn't be an issue.. I know he is running dual fuel pumps...