Spyder Knocking

[Acce360]

I have a 98 gst spyder went to take it out yesterday with my kids was my bday. Turned it on and motor ticking lower end seems oil pressure is lower as well. At first sound seemed external I jacked the car and it's low and near front by oil pump area. I fear it's a bearing but could this be a failing pump?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

The pump won't make a ticking. A rod bearing will unfortunately. With the oil pressure being lower, I don't have a good resolution for the problem that you are experiencing as you are describing a rod knock. It WILL get louder. To try and save the crank, I would not run the car again until you or a mechanic has taken the oil pan off and checked the rod bearings. It isn't fun (I even need to do it to one of my 3 DSM's, as it has low oil pressure now but no knock yet) but can give you the information that is needed to repair it and have it back on the road again.

 

[Acce360]

I can take a look I do work on cars however never tore down or rebuilt a motor. I pretty much knew was a rod but figured would ask. When I dropnthe pan what key things should I look for?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Sloppiness on a rod and bearing material in the oil that glitters. I would take the rods big end off and examine each bearing to find the one that is the culprit. Might as well start with the one closest to the oil pump since that is where you think the noise is coming from. If a rod bearing has given out, that rod will need its big end resized so that the bearing crushes properly and will stay in place. Too many folks think you can just replace it and go on. I wish it worked that way but it doesn't.

 

[Acce360]

Ty I appreciate the information. Any chance this job could be done with motor in car from oil pan area?

 

[JohntyBee]

Ty I appreciate the information. Any chance this job could be done with motor in car from oil pan area?

I've done it before with the engine in the car still. I had to reseal my oil pan and I checked on the bottom end since I was already in there. Just basic tools, a Jack, and some Jack stands got the job done

 

[Acce360]

Sweet! Oversized rod bearings and some plastiguage ? Reuse rod hardware?

 

[99dsmer4g63]

If you have balance shafts still it could be a balance shaft bearing. That is what took out my 99. Sounded like a knocking in the bottom end that was consistent with rpm. Leading up to this I thought my oil pressure was lower than normal and I know for a fact my oil temperature was about 10-15 degrees hotter than it should have been with the conditions.

Normally it was pretty parallel with coolant temps but seemed to be running hotter. When I got home I noticed the noise and dove further into it the following day. Noise was still present. I would describe it more as a ticking but my tick and your knock could be the same idk

-Daniel

 

[Acce360]

It definitely sounded like a tick but my oil pressure for sure is lower even when I try to rev up the RPM some. How do I check that bearing?

 

[99dsmer4g63]

Pulling the oil pump is the only way I know of. IF this is your problem I would pull the motor. It is not required however replacing them while trying to leave it in the car will add difficulty.

Depending on your plans I would delete them while in the car but replacing them bearings on the other hand isn’t something I wouldn’t try to do.

Once again I’m not saying it can’t be done just not something I would say is an enjoyable Saturday wrenching in my car.

I would start with pulling the pan and check for material in the bottom of the pan and check the rod bearings and crank play first. If they check out okay I would then move to pulling the oil pump. At that time I would probably just replace the pump. Which then leads to the water pump and a full timing job while you’re there. You can see things will spitball fast and then you might as well just pull it and freshen everything up .

-Daniel

 

[Acce360]

I agree I will pull pan first. Like u said if definitely sign of rod bearing failure I will try to replace that in the car. If not I'm screwed . I pretty much sold my bike to get this car and supporting my family takes up my funds. I'll try to mess around with it possibly Sunday. Keep u posted. I don't have a cherry picker or engine stand. Too bad u didn't live near me .

 

[99dsmer4g63]

Rod bearings can certainly be replaced while the motor is in the car. Just make sure you don’t pull the rod down too far and let the pistons rings come out of the cylinder bore.

Once you pull the pan and pull a couple rod caps be sure to update us with your findings and pictures. We like pictures.

Good luck

-Daniel

 

[Acce360]

Definitely will. Ty for the help. U live in Illinois by any chance?

 

[Acce360]

Do you know the torque spec for the rod caps and if it's different between a 6 and 7 bolt motor?

 

[99dsmer4g63]

Do you know the torque spec for the rod caps and if it's different between a 6 and 7 bolt motor?

For a 7 bolt it’s 14.5 ft lbs + 90 degrees clockwise or a 1/4 turn clockwise. You should have a 7 bolt in your car if it is the original motor.

I live PA and get quite grumpy when I need to go further than 30 minutes from my house.

 

[DSMPT]

First, drain the oil a little bit into a clear container and see if it contains metal shavings before removing the oil pan.
Rod knock sounds "don't" start occurring suddenly. If this is the rod knock, you should have heard that before sometimes. And if you can hear the rod knock sounds just right after starting the engine when the oil is cold, that means the bearings have already been spun totally. The only solution would be rebuilding the engine. If the sound started suddenly and if you are 100% sure that you have low oil pressure, it sounds more like balance shafts failure than rod knock. So the issue may be something else, such as balance shafts, harmonic balancer separation etc. Anyways inspect all possibilities before removing the oil pan.

And if possible, do not remove the rod caps to check bearings. That is not recommended. Once you remove the rod caps, the bearings wouldn't have the same crush height anymore since they have had many heat cycles after torqued. So even if the bearings don't have any damage, the engine condition would be different than before after putting them back (there would be more possibility to spin the bearings in the future). And I do not recommend to replace only bearings. You can replace them from the bottom side by removing the oil pan but that would be just a bandaid, sooner or later you will damage the bearings again. To save your time and money, rebuild the engine properly would be the only way to go if it's a case of damaged bearings.

 

[Acce360]

I understand that. I would rather pull the motor and rebuild it however I spent everything I got from my bike sale on the car and some minor repairs. The car from what I can tell is bone stock has 122k on it. I have a family with 2 kids work 55hrs plus a week and am so broke can't even pay attention . I'm not looking at this moment to build and make hp but more to enjoy this summer. I just got the car about 2 months ago. Been driving like a champ. Strong no cel. I'm kinda at a point to hopefully pull a pan and see a bearing or car gonna sit or be sold. I would luv to give her more but I don't have the means now. I mean the sound started so quiet I figured a belt or pulley was the caulplret at first but I jacked it up and sound seems low and toward the oil pump area. Like a tick but oil pressure seems lower and rite before this sound I had low pressure at idle however even the slightest rpm oil presusre great.

I'm new to the dsm club and learning as I go.

 

[Acce360]

Problem solved finally

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

@Acce360 ,Please put a solution to the problem that you were experiencing so we all will know when this happens to another member. That is what makes this forum so much different than the rest.
Thanks!

 

[1cleangsx]

I remember on my original stock motor I thought I had also spun a bearing, tore down entire motor and none of the bearings had spun, picked up OE harmonic balancer and noticed it was separating, recessed in, later read that apparently a failing balancer can be the culprit of that noise

 

[Acce360]

The balance shaft belt snapped and went behind the timing belt and crank trigger plate. The plate slightly bent and was tapping the balance shaft tensioner pully making the ticking sound. I was able to bend it back and no more sound.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

You will also get that noise out of a broken stock flex plate, as we found out on our Spyder after removing the engine. On leg was completely broke and another was cracked. Just another thing that "can" make a similar noise.