I'll never trust an alignment shop again.

[PieEyedPiper]

Ever.

 

[sidewaystsi]

Thats a bit scary.

 

[eclipse gsx]

wow that's a huge mistake

 

[pneumo]

Which place did that?

 

[MY1GDSM]

At least you checked the work they did... .

 

[BurrowZ]

YUP.

KIA in town was offering free alignments, so I ran down there and took my bumper off. They pull it up, and immediately start adjusting toe.. in the front first.

Tried to argue with him telling him he needs to start from the rear, and he was all "I've been doing this for years blah blah.."

REALLY?

 

[5150DSM]

Long drive for an alignment... But I'm a service writer a Linville Brothers in Sacramento. We would be happy to help you out. We don't leave jam nuts loose. I've got a couple of really good front end techs here who have a lot of experience with race set-up and off-spec alignments. Google us and give me a call if you'd like.

Tony Catanzarite

BTW- I'm not advertising, just offering to help a fellow DSM'r

 

[NWHTanK]

Yeah ## lucky u checked thier work.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Which place did that?

Firestone.

Long drive for an alignment... But I'm a service writer a Linville Brothers in Sacramento. We would be happy to help you out. We don't leave jam nuts loose. I've got a couple of really good front end techs here who have a lot of experience with race set-up and off-spec alignments. Google us and give me a call if you'd like.

Tony Catanzarite

BTW- I'm not advertising, just offering to help a fellow DSM'r

I really appreciate the sentiment, it's the kind of thing that makes me happy I'm a DSMer.

On the bright side, this gave me the perfect opportunity to play with things on my own.
Funny, now the car doesn't pull to the right and I no longer have to tug-of-war with it on the hwy.

 

[TrevorS]

Problem I've had in the past is not being told about frozen or otherwise non-working adjusters -- they just go ahead and adjust what they can and say nothing about it.

 

[ricktb]

that would have popped off eventually, probably at speed. what made you even check?

 

[PieEyedPiper]

that would have popped off eventually, probably at speed. what made you even check?

Did I mention that they were both like that?

I checked because this is my 4th alignment in like 5 weeks or so. I've had nothing but problems, loose eccentrics in the rear, improper/oblong adjustment in the rear, my rear left is frozen, it's not frozen.. whatever. I usually only inspect the rear, since it's somehow so complicated, but since the car was pulling to the right more than ever I was urged to inspect. Sure enough that photo represents what I found when I crawled under the car today, both sides.

For some reason, just because it's a DSM, even universal tasks cannot be completed competently by your average shop. This is certainly not the first time I've had a shop do stupid shit with my car, and also why I'm putting pennies away for smart strings. We'll see if those pennies ever amount to a set, though.

Off hand, does anyone have any idea what the relationship is between camber and toe in the rear? From my observations it seems the ratio is higher in the rear than in the front, but I guess a measuring tape might sort that out for me.

 

[TrevorS]

Off hand, does anyone have any idea what the relationship is between camber and toe in the rear? From my observations it seems the ratio is higher in the rear than in the front.

Perhaps this isn't what you're asking, but there are two adjusters in the rear, one for toe, and one for "camber". The complication is the trailing arm eccentric indeed adjusts the toe, however, the upper arm "camber" adjustment is at a leading angle and changes both. When you tighten the camber eccentric (top of the tire pulls inward), you also change the toe (requiring trailing arm correction)! In my case, with a floating LR trailing arm eccentric and pretty much frozen RR toe and "camber" adjustments, it was pretty much a crap shoot. But nobody said a thing ! (The left front toe adjustment was also frozen and that was also kept quiet, so I knew nothing about any of this !)

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Perhaps this isn't what you're asking, but there are two adjusters in the rear, one for toe, and one for "camber". The complication is the trailing arm eccentric indeed adjusts the toe, however, the upper arm "camber" adjustment is at a leading angle and changes both. When you tighten the camber eccentric (top of the tire pulls inward), you also change the toe (requiring trailing arm correction)! In my case, with a floating LR trailing arm eccentric and pretty much frozen RR toe and "camber" adjustments, it was pretty much a crap shoot. But nobody said a thing ! (The left front toe adjustment was also frozen and that was also kept quiet, so I knew nothing about any of this !)

It's not. But thanks anyways. What I want to do is quantify that relationship. i.e. 2:1 or something.

Do 1g's have factory camber adjustment? It kind of sounded that way. 2g's aren't so lucky.

 

[snowborder714]

Off hand, does anyone have any idea what the relationship is between camber and toe in the rear? From my observations it seems the ratio is higher in the rear than in the front.

Are you wondering about what the stock specs should be, or what ratio people typically run if they can set to their specs?

 

[TrevorS]

It's not. But thanks anyways. What I want to do is quantify that relationship. i.e. 2:1 or something.

Do 1g's have factory camber adjustment? It kind of sounded that way. 2g's aren't so lucky.

As indicated, the 1G definitely has factory rear camber adjustment, though it requires adjustment of the upper eccentric first ("camber"), and trailing arm eccentric second (toe). My impression is the upper eccentric adjustment is roughly three to four to one, which probably works fine with the factory springs, but with an aftermarket drop, it's easy to fall outside the adjustable rear toe range. Then it's a compromise between rear camber and toe !

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Are you wondering about what the stock specs should be, or what ratio people typically run if they can set to their specs?

Really, I guess I was sarcastically/speaking to myself out loud since I'm not sure if anyone has had this worked out before.

I want to quantify the relationship not see what others are running. Like I mentioned, I might have to just get out the tape measure and see if I can work something out.

As indicated, the 1G definitely has factory rear camber adjustment, though it requires adjustment of the upper eccentric first ("camber"), and trailing arm eccentric second (toe). My impression is the upper eccentric adjustment is roughly three to four to one, which probably works fine with the factory springs, but with an aftermarket drop, it's easy to fall outside the adjustable rear toe range. Then it's a compromise between rear camber and toe !

How do you mean 3:4:1? Could you describe that further?
I'm starting to think your 1g line of thinking would apply to what I'm thinking about because if all the pieces are to be known I should restate that my rear left toe arm is frozen and that I'm going to try to work around it, first, before getting wild with a torch.

 

[Viva]

I work alignments, and yes this is seriously ####ed up

 

[TrevorS]

How do you mean 3:4:1? Could you describe that further?
I'm starting to think your 1g line of thinking would apply to what I'm thinking about because if all the pieces are to be known I should restate that my rear left toe arm is frozen and that I'm going to try to work around it, first, before getting wild with a torch.

I haven't exactly quantified it, but having batted my head against it, suffice to say I'm aware of the issue. My guess is the ratio of camber to toe adjustment in the upper arm eccentric is on the order of 3:1 to 4:1. I tried to allow for it in my LR trailing arm adjuster by replacing the trailing arm bolt with an Ingalls -- which seems to work, however, now I see the RR is toe limited in a similar way, just not as severely !

Still, if any of your alignment adjusters are frozen or otherwise inoperative, I'd highly recommend correcting that before making modifications. That alone might be enough to bring you in !

 

[cait sith]

Looks like you got what you paid for.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Looks like you got what you paid for.

I can tell, already, you're a wonderful specimen.

I'm not even on here complaining. This isn't a case of the eBay story where you get what you paid for. This is a safety/negligence issue, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with how much an alignment costs, which is pretty much universal wherever you go. No race shops handy around me either. Sorry if you don't see it that way.

I haven't exactly quantified it, but having batted my head against it, suffice to say I'm aware of the issue. My guess is the ratio of camber to toe adjustment in the upper arm eccentric is on the order of 3:1 to 4:1. I tried to allow for it in my LR trailing arm adjuster by replacing the trailing arm bolt with an Ingalls -- which seems to work, however, now I see the RR is toe limited in a similar way, just not as severely !

Still, if any of your alignment adjusters are frozen or otherwise inoperative, I'd highly recommend correcting that before making modifications. That alone might be enough to bring you in !

It's been frozen for 7+ years and it's been in spec all that time, too, just with more negative camber than I'm currently running. Not an ounce of tire wear in the rear.

It'd be nice to come up with a quadratic formula for it you'd just need a couple of points, the rest should be Grade 10 math. Problem is you need strings/alignment equipment to take the readings at your designated points. And I forgot that I also need a couch..so smart strings could be even further off than I thought.

 

[snowborder714]

Who needs a couch? Go to the Salvation Army for one so you can get the SmartStrings sooner

 

[johnovision27]

Suckered in by a "free" something.
I don't blame ya, I would of been all over that too.

 

[Flash]

Here's what you do, and it will work. Post your story and your picture on their Facebook wall. They should reply because they have 78,000 likes, means 78,000 people you can get your story out to. It's in their best interest to fix the issue.
Firestone Complete Auto Care | Facebook

BTW, after you post the picture and story, let all your fellow DSMer's know and we'll head over there to 'Like' it. Once they see this surge of activity around one post... you get the idea?

 

[DeadlyScone]

^ do it. They might blow up like a firestone tire