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Head Stuck...Need Some Help.

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Spoolin98

20+ Year Contributor
1,639
22
Feb 1, 2004
Easton, Pennsylvania
Hey guys,
Ok heres my problem. I had the head off the talon to replace two bent valves, I decided to put ARP head studs in while it was off. Me and my bro went to put the head and intake manifold back on as one and the head got stuck. It will not go down or come off. It wiggles and has free play, but will not budge and its driving us nuts. We tried everything we could think of to get it off, but its just stuck. Anyone ever have this problem before? Any help is appreciated. I can get an allen wrench in there to loosen the studs out, but I don't have enough leverage to actually turn the studs. I'm dazed and confused and don't know what to do next. Its a 91 tsi awd. I thought at first it had a 2g head on it because the outer exhaust manifold studs were larger, but Eric at JNZtuning told me that is a 7 bolt thing. So I measured the intake ports and it matched the 1g intake manifold, the therm housing is also a 1g pattern. Any ideas as to why its stuck? My brother and I are fairly strong, thats not whats stopping us from getting it off. Thanks for your help in advance.
 
The only feasible thing I can think about is if you have a 6 bolt shortblock bolted to a 7 bolt head. This present a problem because the bolt holes for the ARP's/hardware is 11mm on a 7 bolt head and the 6 bolt ARP's are slightly larger at 12mm. Hence, if you use a stock 7 bolt head with a 6 bolt block, it gets stuck.

Other than that, you should not have an issue with your head getting stuck if its 6 bolt with 1g head or 7 bolt with 2g head.

OT: with your 2 bent valves (I will assumed they're from same cyl), what was your compression?
 
The only feasible thing I can think about is if you have a 6 bolt shortblock bolted to a 7 bolt head. This present a problem because the bolt holes for the ARP's/hardware is 11mm on a 7 bolt head and the 6 bolt ARP's are slightly larger at 12mm. Hence, if you use a stock 7 bolt head with a 6 bolt block, it gets stuck.

Other than that, you should not have an issue with your head getting stuck if its 6 bolt with 1g head or 7 bolt with 2g head.

OT: with your 2 bent valves (I will assumed they're from same cyl), what was your compression?

Well like I said, the head has a 1g thermostat housing pattern. Also, the intake ports match the exact size of the intake ports on a 1g intake manifold. I'm thinking the previous owner put on a 93-94 head because it has the larger outer studs for the exhaust manifold. I don't know what the compression was, I just heard really loud tapping noise coming from the head. Checked the timing, all the marks lined up, so I pulled the head. The machinist said it had two bent valves and replaced them. I can take pictures of the head if needed, or even a video. Thanks again.
 
Remove the studs, then remove the head. It sounds like the head is in a bind on the studs when you try and lift it.

Like I said in the first post, I can get the allen wrench onto the stud, but I don't have enough leverage to loosen the stud. The allen wrench just starts to bend.
The head is stuck far away from the block. There is a good few inches between the two. The head hasn't passed the threads on the studs yet.
 
Sounds like a 7bolt 1g head. I would look into that. Other than that, there seriously isn't too much that would cause your head to be stuck. Remembering from one of the previous threads about this, the guy ended up cutting all of the studs, but that's worst case scenario.
 
Yeah, 7 bolt head. I have a 7 bolt on in my car and it has the larger outer studs.
 
So on a 7bolt 1g head you cant use 6 bolt head studs?
I would assume you can. If the stud can screw into the block, that means it must have the same mm of thickness as the stock bolts I pulled out. And if the stock bolts go through the head and into the block, then the head should slide over the studs and onto the block.
 
Does anyone know if you can use 6bolt ARP head studs with a 7bolt 1g head? Im probably going to go buy a engine lift, thats my last resort. Im gonna put some straps on the head and hope the whole car doesn't raise when I start to lift.
 
Are you sure it is not stuck on the front engine mount . It will hit that mount if it is left on .
 
That kinda sucks if you can't use a 7 bolt head on a 6 bolt block...I suppose the holes would just need to be milled out a little larger to run them then.
 
You have to work that head off it will come off if you are gentle. i have had them stuck good before i have faith you can do it. the key is to get the head parallel to the block use little movement no pulling hard it will bind you up more. remember small movements when you feel it lossen up dont just pull up do it slow.
 
That kinda sucks if you can't use a 7 bolt head on a 6 bolt block...I suppose the holes would just need to be milled out a little larger to run them then.

I'm almost 100% positive to use a 2g 7bolt head on a 6bolt block the head stud holes have to be bored out. But I'm not sure about a 1g 7bolt head???
 
You have to work that head off it will come off if you are gentle. i have had them stuck good before i have faith you can do it. the key is to get the head parallel to the block use little movement no pulling hard it will bind you up more. remember small movements when you feel it lossen up dont just pull up do it slow.

You gave me a bit of hope, I'll give this a try. We were pulling like all hell on it. We didn't bother trying a gentle approach. Thanks!
 
If you have the washers on the studs, that's most likely the problem. They get a little crooked and bind on the studs.

Luke, I put the washers in the head before putting the head on the studs. To give you an idea of how far I got the head on before it became stuck, the studs did not even break through the head and go through the washers.
 
No, you cannot. Late 92 - 99 4G63's are considered 7 bolts, hence the 11mm stud. Looks like you got those 12mm 6 bolt headstuds stuck in your 11m 7 bolt head.

Ok, well I'm still a bit confused then. Bare with me while I attempt to explain what I'm thinking. If you put the 1g 7bolt head on the 6 bolt block and use the stock head bolts, they go through the head and into the block. The 6 bolt block has 12mm holes. So the stock head bolts I'm using must be 12mm because they screw into the 6bolt block. Also, the ARP head studs I'm using must be 12mm too because they also screw into the 6bolt block. So if the stock bolts can go down through the head and screw into the block, why cant the ARP studs go up through the head? They must be the same diameter, 12mm, if they both screw into the block. So if the 12mm stock bolt can go down through the head, the 12mm ARP head stud should be able to go up through the head. In conclusion, the holes must be 12mm in diameter if the stock head bolts can go through the head and screw into the block. Does this make sense? It does to me. If not, explain to me why. The only possible thing I can see making a difference, is if the ARP studs flare out larger after the threads that go into the block. When I looked at them, they visibly do not look like they do. I don't see why they would flare out, I would assume it would be 12mm in diameter from end to end. The only other thing I thought of was maybe someone swapped a 1g 7bolt into my 91 tsi awd? Then I realized I ordered 6bolt head studs and they screwed in perfect, so thats out of the question. Sorry for the long post, just trying to get to the bottom of this.
 
Just to clear something up, you CAN screw 11mm bolts/studs into 12mm holes AND hold torque (up to about 40lbs). I've done it :notgood: . The E-bay company I bought them from sent me the wrong ones. I never noticed UNTIL I torqued them down.

I'm a little confused on the 1g 7 bolt to 6 bolt thing (as far as what you have and what you're putting on). But If you want to put a head from a later 1g on (the 11mm) then you have to drill out the holes for the 12's.

As for the head, turboanything got it right. Try being gentle on it. Forcing it only makes it lock up more. if you really feel the need to pry (and waste your HG) then use wood on the contact points (on one side of the head and the other) and work it up with a screw driver (again with the blade between two pieces of wood). Do a little on one side then a little on the other.

Yeah, I would imagine that an engine hoist should pull it out :p

MB
 
Just to clear something up, you CAN screw 11mm bolts/studs into 12mm holes AND hold torque (up to about 40lbs). I've done it :notgood: . The E-bay company I bought them from sent me the wrong ones. I never noticed UNTIL I torqued them down.

I'm a little confused on the 1g 7 bolt to 6 bolt thing (as far as what you have and what you're putting on). But If you want to put a head from a later 1g on (the 11mm) then you have to drill out the holes for the 12's.

As for the head, turboanything got it right. Try being gentle on it. Forcing it only makes it lock up more. if you really feel the need to pry (and waste your HG) then use wood on the contact points (on one side of the head and the other) and work it up with a screw driver (again with the blade between two pieces of wood). Do a little on one side then a little on the other.

Yeah, I would imagine that an engine hoist should pull it out :p

MB

The fact that you can screw 11mm bolts/studs into a 12mm hole is irrelevant in this situation. I took the head off myself, I know the stock bolts were torqued down way more than 40lbs and they screw into the block perfect, as do the arp studs. I'm still looking for the answer of whether you can use a 1g 7bolt head on a 6bolt block with arp head studs. I guess I'll find out once I have the time to be gentle with it and get it off. Thanks
 
What's not to understand? You are trying to put 12mm studs in an 11mm hole. OF COURSE it's going to get stuck.

To answer your question, for the third time, YOU CAN use 6 bolt (12mm) ARP studs with a 7 bolt head (regardless of 1g or 2g, it's still 11mm), you just need to get the bolt holes bored out to 12mm. Trust me on this, I'm doing the same exact thing as we speak.
 
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