Guide to Setting up your 1G and 2G for Road Courses

[Ludachris]

Guide to setting up your car for road racing (1G):
Tech Guide: 1G Road Race Setup - DSMtuners

and for 2G:
Tech Guide: 2G Road Race Setup - DSMtuners

These might not be totally complete yet, so let me know what needs to be added/modified for these guides to be accurate and as helpful as possible for those looking to get their DSMs setup for road racing, Time Trials, HPDE, and/or open track events.

Good books:

Tune to Win by Carroll Smith
Engineer to Win by Carroll Smith
and more by Carroll Smith:
Amazon.com: Engineer to Win (Motorbooks Workshop): Carroll Smith: Books

Speed Secrets by Ross Bentley
and more by Ross Bentley:
Amazon.com: ross bentley

 

[tsiboosted]

Chris - I dont want to over step my boundaries here, but you may also want to include things like a Chassis Strenghtening Bar and Under Braces for more bracing of chassis and body flex. Just something else that could help guys out. Also; on the tires, you may want to list the Hankook Ventus race slicks as well. They are a great tire for a good price. Just some thoughts is all on this. Great thread by the way. Really good idea for everyone to check in on and see what it takes and compare what they already have done or have in mind in order to get their DSM's out on the road courses !!!

Chassis Strenghtening Bar

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Under Bracing Front

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Under Bracing Rear

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[Ludachris]

Hey Eddie, that's what this thread will be for - to let people know about the guide, and two, to get suggestions on what should be added. Just FYI, I do mention rear strut bracing in there but I can add the part about the lower bracing for the 2G. I missed that one. I also mentioned that if you put a cage in that the rear bar won't be as necessary.

Feedback is welcome.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

The 1990 oil filter does not work for 7-bolt 2g dsms, you might want to specificy that. That it is an evo oil filter housing!

 

[tsiboosted]

Hey Eddie, that's what this thread will be for - to let people know about the guide, and two, to get suggestions on what should be added. Just FYI, I do mention rear strut bracing in there but I can add the part about the lower bracing for the 2G. I missed that one. I also mentioned that if you put a cage in that the rear bar won't be as necessary.

Feedback is welcome.

You are right, I read back through it last night and you did talk about that. I just missed it

 

[Ludachris]

The 1990 oil filter does not work for 7-bolt 2g dsms, you might want to specificy that. That it is an evo oil filter housing!

Missed that one - fixed it.

 

[absolute_DSM]

You may want to include at the top that potential drivers should look at the rules of the class they plan on competing in before upgrading at all.

 

[Ludachris]

You may want to include at the top that potential drivers should look at the rules of the class they plan on competing in before upgrading at all.

Made that a little more clear.

 

[turbosax2]

Nice write up Chris.

Tiny thing I picked up - Koyo also makes thick radiators for 2g's (not sure how thick the 1g radiators are). You only mentioned PWR.



Another thing I saw is more opinionated, but I thought I would bring it to your attention. Regarding the braided lines for an external oil cooler, 92awddsm thinks that -8 is the appropriate size for the job.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/ven...ed-filter-housing-may-help.html#post151335723



Also, you mention to "try and get wheels as light as you can." Maybe this thread should be referenced alongside that comment.

 

[Ludachris]

Yeah, I mentioned -8 and -10 because some people feel more comfortable using -10. I say go with what you're comfortable with.

And I'll add some text to mention the "rigidity" factor for wheels.

 

[Zero Bar]

A couple suggestions/updates to tires possibly:
As far as I can see the Kumho V700/Victoracer have been discontinued and they are selling off what's left of them in favor of the Kumho V710. Although a good deal pricier the Hoosier R6 is a good tire also worth mentioning. If your going to do "HPDE" or not into the actual racing series street tires would be better and maybe we could list some of those as well??

As for wheels: The absolute cheapest wheels you can buy new are "Diamond racing wheels"( Home Page ), they can be ordered in almost any size/offset you want just don't expect them to be pretty!!

Inside the car: Groups like NASA have a rule of 3, if you have a roll bar you need an aftermarket seat and harnesses, and vice-versa with any of those 3. They're designed to work together as a system though NASA is usually flexible if your only doing HPDE(my car has a 4-point and harnesse, but the passenger seat is stock).

Also maybe some mentioning of what to expect at a day of maybe HPDE, like what the car will need and what to expect from a safety inspection. Brakes are especially important as my car has been off course at Lime Rock with the previous owner as a low brake pad sheared off the backing sending him off into the dirt. Also my roommate just made the mistake of not checking his pads enough this past fall and almost hit the tire wall at Nelson Ledges!! Also keeping the oil topped off so you don't end up with a hole in your block!!

Just some of my suggestions, please add to or whatever if maybe I'm off.

 

[tsiboosted]

I wanted to get this thread back active for people to start adding what setups they are running at different tracks/events they attend. I am going to start off by posting some things I run at the track I normally run at and different things I have tried through trial and error. This is basically my standard setup at almost every track I go to. Once there, I just feel what the car is doing or not doing and adjust accordingly.

Track: No Probelm Raceway
1.8 mile
14 turns
6 left handers
8 right handers
3 straightaways (1900', 500' and 400')

Vehicle: 1997 Eagle Talon TSi (FWD)
Turbo: TD05H 16G (17 psi)
Tires: Hankook Ventus Z211 225/50/16
Tire Pressures -
Cold f/r: 32/34
Hot f/r: 39/40
Spring Rates - Front: 650 lbs Rear: 350 lbs
Struts/Settings - KYB AGX/Front-4 Rear-8
Anti Sway Bars f/r - Factory/RM 17.5 mm
Camber Front: -2.5
Camber Rear: -1.0
The car is basically setup to take turns 4, 5 & 14 as those are the most crucial turns on the track.

Track Map

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Typical things I feel happening to the car and what I do to adjust to correct the issue

Understeering - Well this is a very common one amongst DSMers I am sure. If you do not have the ability to adjsut ride height, spring rate etc. You may want to consider doing some of the following that I have seen to make a difference.

Adjust front and rear tire pressures. I know it may not seem like much, but effectivley lowering your front tire pressure is like softening your front spring rate (to a certian degree). Raising tire pressure does just the opposite. It is like stiffening your spring rates. So if you lower your front pressures and raise your rear pressures, you will get less traction in the rear and force the car to rotate more. In theory of course, but I must say I have seen it and felt it work first hand.

You also may want to try and undo your front sway bar (if applicable). The car may not react as quickly as normal, but the front end will not "push" out or understeer as bad.

Oversteering - Contrary to popular belief, you can make DSMs oversterer as well. This in affect is when the rear of the car seems to always want to come around on you in turns.

Again, you can start by adjusting your tire pressures the opposite way as you did in the understeer scenario. Raise the fron pressure and lower the rear pressure. In effect, you are rasing the rate of the suspension in the front causing the front of the car to "push" out a bit more than it currently is. Lowering the rear pressure will cuse the rear end to have more tire patch on the track thus giving it more grip to not let it "come around" on you.

These are jsut a few things I personally have experienced at the track before in my car. Some have been fixed, others...Well, lets just say its a work in progess on those. There are those on here that may not agree with what I have posted here. But I have done nothing more than post exepriences as I said I have been through and what I did to correct them. I hope more people will start to add to this thread and their setups.

Some rules of thumb to keep in your mind on tire pressures:

Rasing tire pressure will react as stiffening your suspension and will cause that particular tire to react slower, causing more of a "push/understeer' or have less grip.

Lowering tire pressures will react as softening your suspension and will cause the tire to have more patch on the surface and increase your grip.

 

[tu tubaso]

i just got my dsm i will be using for road racing scca,fara usa,nasa any ideas you can shoot at me
motor wise and suspension.

 

[mountain_man]

Thread revival!

Is there a common (not-usually modified) datum where road racers measure front and rear ride-height from? Apologies if this has been answered somewhere else.

 

[Ludachris]

Thread revival!

Is there a common (not-usually modified) datum where road racers measure front and rear ride-height from? Apologies if this has been answered somewhere else.

You mean to compare to stock? I know some would use the fender as the measuring point to compare stock vs the lowered height change.

 

[mountain_man]

@Ludachris I would typically use the top of the fender as well to baseline a ride height. But, more people appear to be rolling their fenders or adding fender flares in order to fit wider wheels and tires for AutoX, Time Attack, track days, etc.... For example (using arbitrary numbers), if someone has fender flares and they recommend a 26" ride height as measured from the top of the fender, that dimension in a stock DSM could be might be 25" b/c the fender is at a different height.

In addition Volk Metal Craft ( @99gst_racer ) and @ec17pse making some killer products that are allowing allowing us to improve our suspensions in ways we haven't been allowed to in the past.

So because of their hard work and assuming rolled fenders, fender flares and hopefully other functional aftermarket body kits become more common it could be beneficial to the AutoX/Road Race DSM'ers we all measure from the same location when communicating. Admittedly this may be to much to ask, but if it helps someone shave 0.5 second off their time or saves them $85 in labor at their local chassis shop everyone wins.

And hopefully, we can pick a location that is for the front and rear:

• Easily seen and measured when the car is on the ground
• Not typically modified, and
• Easily communicated (either to a chassis shop, a friend who's going to help, or here on the DSMtuners)

Just to spit ball ideas, 2G DSM'er can see and measure the rear centerline of the lower control arm (LCA) bolt location shown below (or one similar).

Does this seem like a reason discussion for this thread or should this be moved to a new one?

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[mountain_man]

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This is a potential for the front, which I get's a little bit more tricky. Does anyone have thoughts?

 

[EC17PSE]

When on the ground and lowered you cannot get to these points with ease.

I use a longacre chassis messuring tool which does help some but i always use my outer rails as they never change for me and most likely no one else either. Front and rear by the wheels is good enough for me.

One for the front you can use is the compression arm bolt. Thats the same on every car unless its changed for a non oem bolt

 

[mountain_man]

@ec17pse can you take a pic of where you're talking about? Is there a specific location you've found that works well? PICS DUDE!

 

[Mello]

I measure at these points.

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[mountain_man]

Hopefully I'll be putting the car back on the ground today and I'll be able to try this out.