Setting up my car for time attack

[Got Boooost]

Hey guys, I'm currently setting my car up for time attack this year and have some questions I’m hoping you guys can help me with.

I’m currently running -2.5 camber in the front and -1.5in the rear for autocross, should i keep these setting or should i change them a bit?

Also what’s everyone running for tires for road course? And what kind of life expectance are you getting out of them? I will be running 245/45r17 NTO1 for this upcoming season.

I need to get replace my brake pads before the season starts, any recommendations on what pads to use?

something’s that I will be doing before the season starts
remove a/c
vent the hood
heat wrap exhaust
seal off the rad and FMIC
4 point roll bar and harnesses


I appreciate the help

 

[Evo3Codriver]

Perhaps it'd help to describe the tracks you'd be competing on, how long the sessions are and what class you intend to run in w/ what the tire regulations are for the sanctioning body.

 

[Got Boooost]

I'll be racing at the new road course at Castrol race way by Edmonton Alberta. I believe the course is 2.7kms long, I'll be running on NTO1 tires and running in SGT1. I’m not overly concerned with what class I’m in as this is my first time getting into this kind of racing, I'm more concerned with making sure my car is set up right and can handle the stresses of this kind of racing.

thanks for the help.

 

[cait sith]

Two things you will be battling with a DSM on a road course:

Heat management, and brakes (And the slippery awful stock seats!).

Heat management: Wrap/blanket the manifold/wrap/blanket the turbo exhaust side with a blanket/wrap the downpipe. Install an external oil cooler, and block off the water/oil cooler (this is one of the biggest helps). Drill a few holes in the thermostat. Get a coolant burp tank/swirl tank. Vent the hood, duct everything you can. Consider going to a thinner intercooler/big side mount depending on how much power you plan on cranking out. You will definitely have heating issues your first time out, it's just a rite of passage with these cars. Do you have a real temperature gauge?

The stock brakes even with Porterfield R4E pads (basically the best pad you can get for 2G calipers) are not up to snuff IMHO for road course work on a street weight 2G, unless you want to be changing pads/rotors every other event. Consider going EVO Brembos and you will have a lot better compound choice and much longer lasting, longer staying brakes. I ran Endless ME20s at NHMS and was very satisfied with them, good initial bite, absolutely zero fade.

I run 235 width Advan AD08s, they last pretty well, but they're in a different category than NT01s, I also rub slightly in the rear because my car is too low.

 

[ileagleracing]

If you are running an autocross specific brake pad, switch to a dedicated track pad.
I was involved in the ill-fated Robin Hood Rally tarmac events, and my Porterfield R4S's were actually on fire after each run (3.8 miles), I switched to Carbotech (XP12 front, XP10 rear) and the next event was fine.

Samuel
08 expedition
04 s4
98 talon
95 talon

 

[dsmpat95]

Also, I took my rear toe out for autocross. If you did the same make sure you have some back in the rear, will help with stopping with speed.

 

[TSiAWD666]

I second the Carbotech recommendation. Their pads last a long time, are very rotor friendly, they don't dust much at all (man they used to though!), don't fade easily (at least not on short hpde-length stints), and have great bite and stopping power. If you were on street tires I would also suggest the xp12/10 combo, but with you using an r-compound I would strongly suggest the xp20/xp12 instead. Xp12 likely won't be enough at higher speeds seen on a road course with r-compound tires.

I personally found the xp20 not enough for my current braking but I do have aero and fairly large tires (the effects of which I can't quantify in regards to braking, but theoretically they may be increasing my traction capacity for braking) and I use xp24, but I would give the xp20 a shot first. With that said though, call up Danny at Carbotech brakes and ask what he suggests (and he might even throw you a slight discount if you mention that John Freund sent you). Maybe he will still want to put you into Xp12 and I'd trust him over me any day.

I would like to add that it's not my experience that the 2g turbo oem brake system is inadequate for road course work. It worked terrifically for me with Carbotech Panther pads (about the same as today's xp12) when I was at the 260whp level, stock weight, street 245-wide tires, with pads lasting at least 3 hpde weekends and rotors lasting for a lot longer. I could out brake just about anything I drove with through novice to advanced. I won't come out and say that the R4E must suck but they don't sound very impressive if they are lasting one event and trashing rotors at the same time.

About the NT01, they are the only r-compound I've used as of yet. I do like them as they have a nice gradual break-away as opposed to the abrupt loss of traction with Hoosier R6 or A6 tires (I haven't driven these, but have been a passenger in cars with them). They've been great for me to learn on. I would say these are great for you also to learn on IF you already have high speed experience on street tires. If not, learn on street tires first, then try NT01 later as you need to develop the control, feel, and reaction times needed to manage the higher speeds an r-compound offers. My set lasted me only three track weekends (with two of the events driving an hour to/from the track each day on them, plus maybe a 500 mile highway trip) but I think this is atypical because I only retired them due to a very severe asymmetrical wear pattern in the front passenger tire only that happened at my last event. I think I had at least another weekend in these tires if not two if this hadn't happened. I'm still investigating the odd wear but both I and my sponsor shop (that deals with quite a few race cars) agree it's unlikely anything to do with the tire.

For your starting camber with the NT01 I would suggest a bit more front, starting at -3, but only because I'm using that and it's working for me. I have little science to back it up beyond good tire wear and cross temps, along with less understeer than -2.5. My car might behave quite differently than yours though.

 

[Got Boooost]

I appreciate all the help guys. I think I'll give the xp20 a try. Also I zero'd out my toe for autocross dsmpat95 you mentioned to add some toe back in the rear how about the front?
Tsiawd666 what do you run for camber in the rear? Running -3 up front how do you find your tire wear? Is the inside edge wearing pretty quick?

 

[TSiAWD666]

For toe I think you should start with about 1/8" toe out front, and 1/8" toe in rear. This will give you a safe platform, tire wear wise as well as stability, to start from as you'll get relatively normal tire wear while still getting a bit better turn-in plus a not-so-twitchy rear end. It's a common starting toe setup for lots of cars but it's because for the most part it works for the reasons stated. Personally I find more than about 1/8" front on my car has always led to nasty tire wear and not worth the extra turn-in.

For camber on my car -3 front is fine, and tire wear in general is nice and fairly even. In the rear I currently have -1.5, but that was really just a random stab but it seems to be working alright handling balance wise. Admittedly I have not watched temps in the rear across the tread because I kept forgetting but the wear at least has been even there too.

 

[Scott McIntyre]

As another datapoint, I run Carbotech AX6 front /rear on the street & autox, and Carbotech XP16 front / XP12 rear on the track. I also run 17x10 wheels and 275/40R17 R-compound tires.

I have yet to fade the XP16's with my TCE 13" Willwood brake setup. That said, if you are using the stock brakes, you might need more fade resistance.

Camber settings are highly dependent on your spring rates, roll bars, and tires. With RM bars all around, I ran -3º up front with 500 lbs/in and 245 R-comps. Now I run -2.5º with 900 lbs/in and 275 R-comps. You'll have to experiment for your application.