Going Autocross need suggestions!

[99rs]

I have decided to get into autocross and need some ideas of motor setup and suspenion setups. All suggestions are welcome. NO TURBO/NITROUS PLEASE!!!!!!!

 

[nelapse]

Get a CAI
4-2-1 (I do AutoCross but i perfer 4-1)
UDP <-- Definately get this
Lower your car!! <-- a must I lowered mine 2" HUGE difference
better springs KYB gr2's 50 bucks a piece from summit, 200 for all four
short throw shifter.
front and rear strut bar.
pretty much everything in my mod list you will need

 

[99rs]

What about as far as engine internals, cams, cam gears, p/p head, valve train. What type of tires? what for gauges? All your help is greatly appreciated!!!!

 

[nelapse]

of course cams, and gears will work. but you have to do everything in the right order.
I wouldnt put cam gears in as my first mod you know everything works in conjunction with other things, It doesnt matter how much power you have if your car handles like crap.
get the Suspension done first.
rear/front strut bars
lowering springs
camber kit
better struts
then go forward, I would start with the complete exhaust first, intake, then header and cat back if you want. Cams are good for torque in conjunction with the gears they work better.
I use oil pressure and voltmeter so far. Unless you have monster fog lights like me and alot of electronics a voltmeter probably isnt for you. oil press is a must. also get your suspension inspected before you decide to do anything. Make sure all your suspension is up to bar. check your recalls..

 

[BCESI]

I'd suggest going for a new clutch and a lightened flywheel as well. For the love of all that's good and holy, upgrade your brakes too they'll be under some heavy stress and the last thing you want is brake failure while your tearing down a track

 

[99rs]

What manufacture of clutch/flywheel, Headers, exhaust? As far as handling goes what should I start with first?

 

[bullettdsm]

What about as far as engine internals, cams, cam gears, p/p head, valve train. What type of tires? what for gauges? All your help is greatly appreciated!!!!

I'd like to give you more help but so far nelapse is doin' you good. Also, BCESI is good with the lightened fly. UDP and fly are pretty important IMO. There is a bit of conversation on the decelaration times for the lighten flywheel but that goes more with the 1/4 strip arguements than the autocross quick response. You should look into a match port and polish. Don't go with a heavy port (tearing out as much as you can). A mild port with a good polish will up your response times (plus help your top end). But all you're trying to do is match up your intake with the TB and the head port; plus getting rid of any casting imperfections. I would not do a heavy, open 'em up type port. I don't know what you're doing for TB but I would NOT go with the 60mm Tb in your case. You may even stay with a 53 or at most 55 depending on your set up. The 60 will take away some of your bottom end. Of course, you got rid of your cat, I presume and the 4-2-1 header is the way to go. Definitely don't go more than 2 1/2 inches on the exhaust. You can then work yourself up to a supercharged, turbo with nitrous set-up (OK before the flamers come out, it was JUST a joke).
MB

 

[nelapse]

What manufacture of clutch/flywheel, Headers, exhaust? As far as handling goes what should I start with first?

4-1 style header I went with megan racing, I got the SS header and SS dp for 105 shipped
4-2-1 DC sports you are looking to pay some serious bones for SS like 350+
AF/X UDP mine was $160 shipped to my door and came with 2 free belts
Ralliart CAI got mine from ebay $45 shipped to my door
Vibrant upper strut tower bar $60 shipped
rear strut bar $26 shipped
You can get a performance clutch from SPEC for like $279 from horsepowerfreaks.com i think
Catback I am not sure of yet I am thinking about taking my car to a shop and have them fabricate a 2.5" exhaust w/o the coffee can muffs

 

[nelapse]

I'd like to give you more help but so far nelapse is doin' you good. MB

Thanks.

Anyways, I wouldnt worry about the performance yet. Like I said that stuff is insufficent unless your car will handle the road. You can easily beat a GST in Autocross if #1 you are a better driver #2 Your car has better suspension.
Suspension will make you faster!! It will I promise you. Perhaps not in drag racing but you will be able to control your car way better in corners. Study your heel toe shifting in corners and you will be golden. So get this engine stuff out your mind and start researching suspension setups.

 

[BCESI]

Thanks.

Anyways, I wouldnt worry about the performance yet. Like I said that stuff is insufficent unless your car will handle the road. You can easily beat a GST in Autocross if #1 you are a better driver #2 Your car has better suspension.
Suspension will make you faster!! It will I promise you. Perhaps not in drag racing but you will be able to control your car way better in corners. Study your heel toe shifting in corners and you will be golden. So get this engine stuff out your mind and start researching suspension setups.

Very, very good point, also don't forget some higher performance, sticky tires...I can't really give you a suggestion because I don't have alot of experience with different tires. I have heard very good things about the Toyo Proxes4, and the Kumho Ecsta's. Keep an eye out for some lightweight rims as well...weight is an enemy when it comes to autocross

 

[99rs]

I thank you guys alot for helping me out!!!!!


As far as weight goes, what are some weight reductions I can do?

A GOOD SUSPENION STEUP: Front/ Rear sway bars, Front/Rear strut bars, Shocks/Springs camber kit. Where can I find all of this and what should be expecting to pay????

 

[nelapse]

Weight reduction is a double edged sword. People think that weight reduction just consist of removing weight and your good right? Wrong! Dont concentrate on weight reduction concentrate on weight distribution! For instance, lets say you concentrate on taking out your spare tire all your back panels and interior. The problem with alot of weight loss in the rear is that it can cause you to understeer. So leave your spare tire in, perhaps a carbonfiber hood and relocate your battery to the back. Your battery is aprox 1% of total weight in the front. Also one other thing you should think of is your center of gravity. It is not uncommon to watch racers roll down their windows, and leave them down. Glass is pretty heavy and that helps with your lower gravity. I chose to leave my stock rims on. They are 16" and I painted them metallic black so they look clean. They only weigh 20lbs a piece. They are light, big enough for bigger brakes, and enough tire to grip the road. Some food for thought.
As for prices, I spent 130 for 2" drop lowering springs from onsoku motorsports
all the other prices look at my previous post those are very acurate.
One other thing about weight distribution, you seen all those stories and magazine articles about the Corollas that beat skylines and rx-7's and such in drifting? Those cars have almost an even distribution which gives it a real advantage over power. You can toss those cars like salad. read up on those if you want some more insight.

 

[GreenGSX]

I have decided to get into autocross and need some ideas of motor setup and suspenion setups. All suggestions are welcome. NO TURBO/NITROUS PLEASE!!!!!!!

If I had to start all over again with autocrossing I wouldn't spend a dime on the car. Just drive it as is and see if you like it first. That alone might save you some cash. Secondly, and this is the most important thing, the driver is THE single most important nut that can be adjusted in an autocross car. Learn how to drive the car you have before you throw money at it. With that being said, there are a few things you can do before you get started.

Get a little autocross kit together. You'll need sunscreen, a cheap rain poncho, a decent tire pressure guage, white shoe polish, and pleanty of drinking water. A little $20 air pump will come in handy but you should be able to borrow one if need be.

Here is what you need to do your first day.

First find out what time it starts and don't miss registration. If you miss it you might not be able to run. Plan on being there by 8am and help with whatever you can do. Especially course set-up. Then you need to walk the course as many times as you can. You know you've walked the course enough when you can run the course in your head with your eyes closed. It also helps to pair up with an experienced driver and walk the course with them. Autocrossing is a non-stop learning process.

Now for the car;

For a 2g car start with at least half a tank of gas and for a 1g car start with a full tank. For the tires a good rule of thumb is run your tires 10psi over what the door-jamb sticker says the stock pressure is. An example would be 42psi for the front and 40psi for the back. Now take the shoe polish and mark the side walls of the tires before your run, then afterwards, check to see how the tires are wearing. Then adjust your tire pressures accordingly. An example would be if your wearing the sidewalls of the tires you would want to lower your tire presssure. An experienced autocrosser will be able to help you diagnose your tire wear. Before you start you'll need to take everything out of the car. Also, you need to 100% sure the battery is tied down before you show up. A loose battery is an easy way to fail the tech inspection. This is easy to miss but make sure you've got all the lug nuts on the car and a wrench to tighten them if need be. You also don't want to forget your drivers license and a copy of your insurance card. Other than the above mentioned autocross kit that should be all you'll need. You might want to think about bringing some simple hand tools but for the most part you might be able to borrow whatever you need.

That's just what I can get off the top of my head. The only way to know for sure is to show up and run. I would highly suggest checking to see if they have a novice program. It can make all the difference in the world.

Oh, just remember...when it comes to turns its "slow in and fast out"

 

[nelapse]

I agree with 97% of what you said. The part I disagree with is the "don't spend a dime" on your car see how you like it first. He has a 2G which is jacked up like an suv and depending on whether he has a GS or RS he may not even have a rear sway bar. You need to make some effort to make the car a suitable platform. Lower the car if nothing else. The best way to learn is to practice. You will be able to control the car better with some mods, rather than stock. No newb should have to use a stock car for this unless you are driving a top of the line car IE: Evo or Aspec RSX or something that has some sort of sport tuned suspension. GS' RS' are grocery getters stock. They were not meant for this kind of driving therefore small adjustments or mods should be considered. My .02

 

[ahaidet]

First off if you are planning on autocrossing in an SCCA sanctioned event.. they have a very strict classing structure, that says what you can and cannot do to a car for each class. Look into that, I would recommend sticking with a stock class, first because it is "cheap", second without any autocrossing driving experience you have alot to learn already without trying to dissect the SCCA rulebook. Personally I would like to go out and be somewhat competitive and not embarrass my self the first time out, so unless you are fully prepared to spend a bunch of money on a COMPLETE suspension I would not reccomend touching the suspension. Here is what I reccomend.

-First do "stage 0" get the car running reliably.
Check shocks and there mounts, brakes, tires, cooling system, motor-wise make sure your keeping up with timing belt changes etc.

-Second go to an event with your autocross kit (important to have a good time) above and try it out see if you like it.

-Third find a local autocrosser at the event that has perhaps driven a DSM in autocross. Autocrossers are very friendly and will help you out anyway they can knowledge-wise, tools.. they are a huge resource. Talk to them find out what setup they run what class they run, they will share info until you start beating them or getting close.

-Now to get serious and get competitive here is the order of importance mod-wise that you can do in a stock class.

-DRIVING SCHOOL!!!!- many local autocross clubs have novice schools that you can attend that are cheap (our local one is $50 and it includes lunch a whole day of practice, lots of seat time, instructors who are sometimes familiar with your car and will ride along/ let you ride with them and then the next autocross is included) this is a must to start out in autocrossing..
http://www.scca.com/Inside/Index.asp?IdS=007961-36BA240&Reference=RegionalSites&~=
this link will help you find your local region contact the head and ask them like right now if they have a novice school (we have one April 30)


-TIRES- they are the only part of your car that touches the road (has been said 10329083 times before, but is so true).. everything else you do to your car has to go through them before anything happens.. depending on what class you run you can run different tires.. Stock classes you will see alot people running specific autocross tires from: Hoosier, Kumho, and now Hankook has one... These are very slick DOT legal tires that are a must to run competitive in stock classes.. without them your times will be about 10% slower on average... If you run a street touring class which seems to be where you would be leaning with all the mods you are planning.. they run regular ultra high performance street tires.. don't skimp here either.. look at what guys running street touring in your class are running and try them.. (Falken Azenis are cheap and sticky and look cool.. )

-struts/shocks- DO NOT JUST LOWER YOUR CAR WITH LOWERING SPRINGS! This is bad for handling... if money is tight just get struts.. they will improve autocross times much more than springs and they are legal in stock classes (with some exceptions). Don't believe me go to Road Race engineerings website.. http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclsuspension.htm
check out what it says about springs..
Top autocrossers spend a ton on struts.. and for good reason autocross is mostly transient (changing direction) as opposed to steady state (road racing in a corner/ nascar high bank stuff).. struts/shocks are for transient.. springs roll bars for steady state..

Then the rest will fall in place.. relax it takes some time to get good at autocrossing... I once saw a bumper sticker at an autocross I liked "Drag racing is for fast cars... Autocrossing is for fast drivers." Have fun with it the most important part.. Good luck!

 

[99rs]

You guys are a big help!! I am currently looking into the regions right now. I can't wait to go to the first event!!!

 

[LeJeune123]

I am so happy so are going to go into this. It is the best thrill ride and car learning experience ever. I went to my first one and it rained so we just went slow and drifted on hard corners. Just that taught me alot about my car.I have been to a few since that one and love every minute. I reccomend starting with a 3/4 to full tank of gas cause around some hard corners I lost fuel to my motor with a little under 3/4 and my suspension is stock and pretty useless cause it's 10yr. 176,000 mi. old. The best help about the course is from the other people there cause everyone is there to see how fast they can get. Don't worry cause no matter what you are never going to be the only newb out there. Also when you come off the track to park your car DO NOT put the e-brake on cause the last time I went a 350Z was doing a hard run and came back and pulled the e-brake then when he went to put it down after a few minutes the brake had fused itself to the rotor!! Have fun!!<---I already know you will

 

[97eagletalonesi]

i work with people that race at our local track, but i wanna race the talon or an eclipes, but they dont have a class for that so i thought autocross. gonna be awhile i think. i think it would fun as hell, even though you may not win it should still be fun

 

[madoc05]

Try a new flywheel and clutch, it will help the car rev faster.

I did headers, downpipe, catback, lowered it, big brakes, and clutch and flywheel and my car gets through the course really well.

 

[hystericfox]

What about as far as engine internals, cams, cam gears, p/p head, valve train. What type of tires? what for gauges? All your help is greatly appreciated!!!!

I would suggest a set of either the old Falken Azenis RT-215 as has been said, they're cheap since they're out of production if you can find them. If you want a really sticky tire, I suggest Khumo V700 Victoracers and a spare set of wheels. These are awesome tires, but they aren't as cheap as the Azenis. Because of what autocross is, you don't need to worry about the engine so much, just work on suspension and a good set of tires and you should be set. When you're trying to figure out your tire pressure get some white shoe polish and put it in a few spots around the edge of the tread and onto the sidewall so you can tell if you aren't running enough pressure. I'm big on telling people that tires make the difference, mainly because last year I pretty much hit the lowest times I could have on my tires because they suck for it. The nice thing about autocross is that you don't need to pour tons of money into the car to be competetive. Good luck with it man, you'll get hooked on it.

EDIT: Hey, where is Maytown anyway? I run with NEPA.

 

[dr1665]

What a cool thread. Another local DSMer and myself just checked out our first local solo event here in Phoenix at PIR. I've got the suspension pretty much taken care of, now all I need to do is replace the windshield, upgrade the brakes (sketchy above 80, so I'm not abusing them for 45 seconds on the course), and pop for a helmet.

I can't wait to do this in Daisy. I'm even blowing off my 10yr highschool reunion to go help out at the next event. autoX > drag.

 

[BCESI]

autoX > drag.

I couldn't agree more! Good luck with it man

 

[qwklil4]

Awesome thread...i just went to my first autox last weekend, and now thats definately what im going to build my car for. But what i think is the most important thing to upgrade is the driver i beat a 2g gsx that had alot of mods, big turbo, FMIC, etc etc ...compared to my stock 1g

 

[mavisky]

As others have said there are very strict classes in autocross and changing one thing could put you in a class against near racecars. Here is an idea of what kind of cars you'll be running against in a stock class.

http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2003/stockc.html

this should help you figure out where you're at if your car is already modified some.

http://www.indyscca.org/SoloFiles/carmodandclassification.pdf