420a-T build list need suggestions/review

[jayson427]

255*1.15 accounting for 15% drivetrain loss = 293.

Yeah that's nowhere close

No where, and nowhere, mean two totally different things. I guess you missed that day of first grade, is that why you paid someone to install an ECU in your 420a?

Show me a dyno sheet with someone making that power on a stock bottom end. Because I've never seen it done. To achieve that power you would be running more then 8psi. Which anyone that has ran more boost then that ends up with internal damage regardless. Unless your talking about running a turbo for a few weeks then blowing the motor? That to me is not a successful boosted 420a.

I'm glad you can be immature and correct my grammer. Way to go tuff guy

If you don't know the whole story about my build then don't talk about it like you know. I never paid anyone to install an ECU. It got replaced during a shop visit which I was there for other reasons but thanks for trying.

 

[Sebba]

Show me a dyno sheet with someone making that power on a stock bottom end. Because I've never seen it done. To achieve that power you would be running more then 8psi. Which anyone that has ran more boost then that ends up with internal damage regardless. Unless your talking about running a turbo for a few weeks then blowing the motor? That to me is not a successful boosted 420a.

I'm glad you can be immature and correct my grammer. Way to go tuff guy

If you don't know the whole story about my build then don't talk about it like you know. I never paid anyone to install an ECU. It got replaced during a shop visit which I was there for other reasons but thanks for trying.

Google/YouTube it, I'm not your personal ####ing secretary.

 

[jayson427]

Obviously you have no clue. Show me one YouTube video with a turbo'd 420a making 250hp on the stock bottom end. I have seen just about every video on there for the 420a. If they are it's not on a stock bottom end! Unless this is something you have done personally stop making assumptions because I've done my research many times. So I'm not asking for you to be my secretary, only asking for real proof with a dyno sheet.

 

[Sebba]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c9DW6Osigk]eclipse 420a turbo dyno - YouTube[/ame]

Right here

Before you start whining that it's not listed in the title, check the uploader comments.

 

[jayson427]

If 8psi gains 130hp then why aren't there more guys getting the same numbers? Something isn't right either way. 8psi should be closer to 220hp for a completely stock 420a. Doesn't say what kind of dyno it is, most likely inaccurate numbers. Say what you want call me a retard but I'm sticking to that.

 

[BlackKnight2013]

I want to build a 420a-T and don't say save your money and get a gst or gsx I want to build the engine for experience.Going to get a spare 420a from junkyard that needs built.Want to build engine and wire MS then get a turbo setup later.My goal is around 300hp. I made a list might be totally off but suggestions, things I need or forgot,things I don't so I can revise the list.Going to be slow build but it will get there. The turbo part not too sure about so please tell me what I need. Thanks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CI-cimotorsports GY-dsmgraveyard MO-Mishimoto

Rebuild engine from junk yard- $250-300

Valve Cover
2.4 neon valve cover powder coated
oil catch can
hopefully COP setup if i can figure it out need to do more reading

HEAD
CI- Crower turbo grind CAMS-$360
GY- Graveyard Motorsports Performance Valves-$150
AA- Felpro seals-$28
CI- Springs-$110
CI- SBI Keepers-$30
CI- SBI Lifter-$160
CI- SBI Rockers-$160
CI- ARP head stud-$125
CI- Cometic HG-90$
CI- EGT block off plate-$15

Machine shop- port/polish/resurface face/valves 1mm over?=???

Block
CI- Wiseco pistons(8.8:1)=$470
CI- Eagle rods-$330
CI- Clevite main and rod bearings=$110

Machine shop-hone cylinders, resurface face, resurface crank=???

ECU
SY-Megasquirt w/ wideband-$840

Turbo(LATER ON)
Need help with not too sure

MO- Mishimoto Universal Intercooler G-Line, Black 24.5" x 11.75" x 3" $295
Blow off valve-???
ebay- Wastegate-OBX Racing BLUE 40mm-$165 ????
CI- Manifold-OBX Ram Horn Turbo Manifold-$389 ???
ebay- Turbo-S16g,s20g or S366??-$700 ???
ebay- Piping-100$
ebay- Oil fitler sandwich with turbo feed line-$40

Fuel
Fuel Pump-Walboro 255??
injectors-??
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Raceeng.com will beat any price CI motorsports has listed just call race engineering and talk to ROB. I bought 81% of my 420a internal parts from them. here's a link to the 420a parts: Race Engineering, Inc - 420A

 

[Brax93]

Well checked Craigslist and I think I bought a deal spent 500$ total for it.
Got upper gasket set w/ HG, Eagle rods,turbo manifold,ACL rod and main bearings, air intake manifold, Valve cover, head, block,oil pan, already bored and the intake ported and that box with other misc. parts too.I think that's it might be forgetting something but pretty nice start on the build. But idk about the blue block though probably become a dark/medium gray or black again.

Here is my photobucket some pics wouldn't upload. http://s222.photobucket.com/user/brax93/library/420a build?sort=3&page=1

 

[Fotowntalon]

Nice find. As far as the question on horsepower. It is not a question of will the stock block take 300whp, it can. The true question is for how long will the stock block take 300whp? If you want something turbo'd and reliable in a 420a, just rebuild the bottom end and save yourself the headache.

 

[jayson427]

My question is how long has that set up been sitting around? I would have it looked over and make sure everything is in spec. Make sure nothing is rusted internally or you can damage things on the first start up. I would be putting assembly lube on all the bearings.

 

[Brax93]

Oh im going to check everything and make sure its good, im not just going to start throwing parts on and find out something is wrong with it. so we will see only thing I need for the block is the pistons so im hopefully going to get those soon and find a shop to polish the crank and that should be good. Then I need to get all the parts for the head and get the valves oversized 1mm.
Oh for quaife lsd I only see them for like $1000 thats crazy, OBX is like 450 but you have to replace the springs and something else for that to work...and I cant find the AMC LSD anymore they said that one did alright

 

[jayson427]

Don't buy an obx lsd you will regret that. Look into the equal length axle mod for the 420a , that helps a lot too. Do you have bearings for the mains and rods? And don't buy pistons till you have your cylinders measured by a machine shop.

 

[Brax93]

Yeah I do they are ACL bearings for main and rods, alright ill take to a shop to make sure, do they just mic the cylinder walls??
And ill look into the equal length axle mod because I don't really got 1000$ for a quaife lsd atm hahah

 

[Fotowntalon]

OBX isn't horrid as long as you get the rebuild service, think someone on neons.org does that. However after you get an OBX rebuilt you are still right around $750 total. You can always find a used Quafie for around ~850, but you may be looking for a while for one.

 

[jayson427]

You can always upgrade your diff later on. The mod I was talking about uses a pt cruiser intermediate shaft and axle so they are equal which helps prevent torque steer. I'm not sure how much an ed Peters lsd cost but I've seen those before. I run obx parts well I did till they have come around and cost me more money. Unless it's a manifold from obx personally I wouldn't buy anything else. For the cylinders they Mic them yes so you can see if it's still standard or oversizd bore. The crank will determine the size of your bearings unless it's already been done. Always good to double check those things.

 

[Brax93]

Alright thanks for the heads guys and for the equal length half shaft I only see it for the gst swapping in awd alxes is there a thread for the 420a Im not seeing. and for the lsd im looking around from$750-850 thats better than $1000+ for a new one I would rather do the alxe mod then if I have money to do lsd I would. Also would I need to upgrade my axles for 300HP??

 

[jayson427]

As long as you don't do burn outs like crazy and don't wheel hop you should be fine on the axles. But make sure your axles are in good shape and have grease. If you search for the axle mod on 2gnt.com that's where you find it. There's a guy named Corbin on there that makes the special bracket you need. Then you just find the pt cruiser parts needed.

 

[jayson427]

2GNT.com Forums - Viewing topic - Wiki Article on Equal Length Driveshafts

Read this link it's everything you need to know and has comments on how well it works . It might take a little bit of fabrication but highly doable.

 

[Brax93]

yeah that seems doable but I dont think he released the .cad file for the measurements that need to get cut out from the machine shop

 

[jayson427]

Corbin has a shop so if you contact him I'm sure he can help you if it's something you want to do. Have you considered lsd inserts? If you stay in a straight line you can get by with out a trans upgrade till you get there. Have you decided on a turbo/compression yet? That will also help you determine how bad your traction will be.

 

[Brax93]

I think I'm going to go with custom pistons through Fotowntalon with stock compression 9.6:1 that should allow me to run premium when I go turbo correct? not e-85 around here so cant do that... turbo not sure what im going with you said your going with a 20g correct could you go more in depth like the A/R trim and stuff im still kinda of a noob with the turbo specs and crap, what would be the best turbo/turbine for my compression?
And that equal length half shaft I could do just need that bracket made im sure I could find the indeterminate half shaft from a avenger around here.

 

[jayson427]

Google drive pressures and egt's for a turbo applications. The bigger the a/r on a turbo the exhaust gases go through it with less pressure which effect spool on the turbo. So a smaller a/r will spool the turbo faster but egt's and drive pressure increase. And opposite of that with a bigger a/r. I think my 20g is a .70. You want your egt's at a certain temperature so your turbo will last a lot longer. If they get too hot your turbo will suffer quickly. You will need a 3in exhaust too.

Just talk to a shop that builds turbo cars in your area or state. They can explain things better so you won't have any worries. Your doing good so far just keep asking questions and read as much as you can.

 

[Brax93]

Alright im just trying to get everything done right, thanks for all your help so far. I think im going to go with a mechanical tensioner because I heard the hydraulic one fails so I just want to be on the safe side..

 

[jayson427]

Yeah mechanical tensioner for sure. Get a gates timing belt kit too.

 

[Brax93]

Well I disassembled the block the rest of the way and took it to the machine shop today getting the block: hot tanked, sanded also I believe, checked, bored/honed, crank grinded and polished....for a fairly good price 225-300$ I think its going to come up to... so just a small update see how it comes out and what they say about the block.... hopefully its good

 

[glowryder]

i got a hahn s20g with billet wheel, Corbin ELDS bracket and a Mech tensioner for sale if your interested.. lmk!