Engine Build Suggestions

[Lashes09]

Well, my last thread got closed? But I've determined I'm just building my engine (or finding another 420a for sale, build it and then swap it with mine). But I was hoping someone could give me some good links to some descent cams, turbo kit, ECU, and whatever else I need..

Cams - havent looked really and would appreciate some links..

Turbo - well i found these.. but i dont know if I should buy that kit or the turbo and intercooler for sale and just find all the piping and stuff.

95 96 97 98 99 TALON 420A 2.0L T3/T4 TURBO KIT 350HP : eBay Motors (item 270573241738 end time Jun-01-10 14:14:27 PDT)

Turbo kit

ECU - Well I was given some links earlier but i cant open the page right now.. But maybe I could get more ideas? And i never got an answer to whether or not a programmer would do the same kind of thing?

Others - More ideas for things to do? Mind you that I'm on somewhat of a budget.. But some help would be very helpful

Other questions - If I were to get an aftermarket header right now would i be able to use it with my turbo system? or would i just be wasting my money?

Also, I have a set of disk brakes for my back wheels.. what all would i need to get those on? Like would i have to replace a bunch or stuff or would something finally come easy?

Sorry for throwing so much out there at one time.. But thanks for any help!

 

[1995eternal]

Since being on the site I have heard so many times to stay away from ebay, especially for important parts like a whole turbo system. Get a Hahn or treadstone, I personally like the Hahn kit, comes with everything you neeed. However the Hanh's kit is like $2500. Notice the ebay kit is only like $900. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

Links:

Hahn Turbo kit- Hahn Racecraft - Automotive Turbosystems

Cams- CROWER CAMS - Camshaft - 420A - Race Engineering, Inc

ECU- http://howellautomotive.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2609

and for the header question. No, if you get a regular header now it will be a waste. Turbos have a special type of header. Hope this helps a little.

 

[Lashes09]

So if i get a turbo system, cams, and ECU how much hp am i looking at?

Mind you that i already have the intake and exhaust..

 

[1995eternal]

A Hahn stage 1 kit can add 50+ hp. Which in reality for a "bolt on" mod is amazing. The stage 2 kit can get you an extra 100+ hp. Keep in mind though the Hahn stage 2 kit is $3400, One thousand bucks more than the stage one. The good things about the stage one kit are, besides being cheaper, its easier on the stock block, being the enternal components. It only runs 5 psi boost. If you run more boost there's more stress on the engine. A way to remedy this is build up your block. But that can run you some serious dough.
The cams and ECU will defenitly help and are important part of upgrading the engine. But when compared to a turbo kit, you will see more noticeable gains from the turbo.
With that being said, no one can give you an accurate answer of "how much hp your going to be looking at". Just with the Hahn stage one kit you should see around 200+hp. Which is what they're website says. I think if you slap the new cams, ECU and turbo kit on you would be more than happy.

 

[Lashes09]

Doesnt sound too bad.. What about pully's, cam gears, stuff like that? Worth it at all?

 

[1995eternal]

I'm going to give you some advice........ Use the search feature at the top of the page. Its going to help you answer a lot of these question. I'm not a wiseman or anything. But when I want to figure out something I usually search it first, then start a thread if I can't find anything.

Yes pulleys, cam gears and "stuff like that" are a good thing, but please research first. Notice that your earlier thread was closed. Read up on stuff dude, and you'll have no problem finding answers to all your questions here.

I've been a 4x4 guy all my life until I recently got my Eclipse, so basically I knew nothing about these cars. This site has helped me a lot. You just got to know how to use it.

 

[nothingfiction]

cam gears are pointless (in reality) unless you plan to get some dyno time.

Cam gears can gain you about 3-7HP if tuned properly. They are adjustable and with that said... NO ONE can give you any clue what to adjust them to for you. Reason being, every engine is different. Look at a set of twins even though they look exactly the same... theyre not. Different milage, maintenance routine, driver, upgrades, ect... it does add up. You can get cam gears at leave them at -zero- (they come +10 / -10) and wait till you have the time to put your car and setup on the dyno. With each upgrade you should re-dyno it to get the most out of your car, but it's not needed. However having your cam's gears set to unsaid amount of degree can harm your car if not tuned properly. (read about people who have thier timing off, or belts skipping teeth... blown head, valves, ect cam happen... now you need a rebuild)

However... cam gears can help too. they are lighter than your stock gears, and are adjustable which means you can tune them.

as for underdrive pulleys. i believe i told you about them in the previous post you had. But by any means go ahead and ask again in case i missed something or you want more information or more sources and opinions.

CAMS: Crower 64462-2 - Crower Performance Level 2 Camshafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com
TURBO: Hahn Racecraft - Automotive Turbosystems
ECU NT: Mitsubishi Eclipse/Eagle Talon - Mitsubishi Eclipse/Eagle Talon 2nd Gen Non-Turbo 95-99 - Talon/Eclipse Computers
ECU T: Complete 420A Megasquirt EMS Kit - SymTech Laboratories
CAM GEARS: Amazon.com: AEM 23-850B Blue Tru-Time Cam Gear: Automotive
UNDERDRIVE PULLEY: Howell Automotive AF/X UDP

ALSO: a thing to remember. Just as we have said headers are a waist of money if/when going turbo... Your cold air intake will be obsolete now too, as it will be replaced for inercooler piping

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

If you really plan on boost then the AFX is not the ecu you need, megasquirt is your only other reasonable option.

 

[Lashes09]

will that mega squirt audtomatically adjust to mods like the AFX?

 

[KazooGS-T]

will that mega squirt audtomatically adjust to mods like the AFX?

On it's own, no. Megasquirt isn't a performance ecu, it's essentially a standalone engine management unit. This means you will have to get the car tuned for it to work properly and according to your setup.

 

[1995eternal]

So MegaSquirt is the better option for those who plan on going turbo? I thought the AF/X unit automatically adjust to new bolt on performance mods?

 

[95talongirl]

Megasquit would be the best option for you guys going turbo. The reason is because its essientally a standalone system n which you can fine tune rather than using a bunch of piggyback "tricks" to tune with.

I've never heard of an ECU that automatically adjusts to new mods. AFAIK, you have to go back in there and change perimeters. After all it is just a computer program.

 

[nothingfiction]

the AFX ecu

420A Race MT $390 plus a $150 core charge. FITS 1995-1999 MODEL YEAR ONLY

Design Philosophy: All A/FX computers are designed using clean-sheet software. The fuel and spark maps and done using a state of the art load-type dynamometer and the best computer programmers and automotive engineers in the business. A/FX computers have the ability to adapt to new modifications as you make them. Add a new cam, drive at part-throttle for a few dozen miles, and the computer will learn the engine's revised airflow characteristics. Then, even at W.O.T. (in open-loop mode), the fuel-air mixture will be right on.

Result: maximum power, you go fast. With no loss of fuel economy or driveability! (This feature is maximized in the race-only units) RPM limits are increased and many other annoying factory-type drawbacks are upgraded or eliminated. See actual specs for each type of computer below.

Vehicles with "Sentry Key" will require the vehicle identification number (VIN) be programmed in the computer at the time of installation for vehicle to start and operate properly. This is ONLY required in vehicles with the "Sentry Key" anti-theft device. The dealer is the easiest place to have this done. This will take a mechanic approximately 15 minutes with the proper tool.

Disclaimer:
This product sold by AFX Manufacturing is sold for off highway use only and is not legal for use on any pollution-controlled vehicle that will be used on a public highway. There is no warranty written, expressed or implied. User assumes all liability, risk and responsibility in using racing products.

Side note...
This is just a "generic description" for all of thier AFX computers.
01. NONE of the DSMs were fitted with sentry keys (that i know of).
02. the 2G DSM AFX ecu only comes in "race" form.
03. All products have a disclaimer to save the companies ass in case you are a retard. Don't believe me? There is a disclaimer on the box when you get a thermostat to take it to a knswledgable mechanic if you're a dumbass and install it backwords or something. That way you can't sue the company for effin up your car or engine.

 

[bullettdsm]

I've never heard of an ECU that automatically adjusts to new mods. AFAIK, you have to go back in there and change perimeters. After all it is just a computer program.

Actually, our stock ecu and the AFX/ECU does adjust itself. But what it does is it basically works toward already established parameters within the ECU itself (through feedback on the multitude of sensors that we have on our cars ). But the AFX has leaner parameters and more aggressive spark "table" than the stock ECU, therefore you wouldn't want to run it with a turbo application because the spark would probably be too agressive (and fuel mixture too lean, for that matter) for use of whatever turbo set-up you have.

MB

 

[95talongirl]

Cool, thanks for the info! I was not aware of this.

 

[2qik4u]

build internals and lower compression to around 8.5:1 and get some turbo cams and a decent turbo. them install megasquirt and get it tuned. you would be best off looking up everything you can about what components are needed in a good turbo system and then buy the stuff separatly. a stage 2 kit is over $3000 and you can put a good it together yourself for about $1800 including pistons,connecting rods, turbo, blowoff valve, wastegate, turbo manifold, intercooler, piping, and a tuning system. look into buying some stuff used such as intercooler, turbo, manifold, wastegate, blowoff valve, and even the tuning system. buy the rods and pistons new and get a good headgasket and arp headbolts. cams are not really needed to make decent power in the 420a as they are pretty big cams already. and cam gears are not needed until way later when you wanna dyno tune and really tweek everything to total perfection. and pullys are something that can come later too. for now do your homework and get a good basic setup before worrying about all the other small stuff. hope this helps.

 

[1995eternal]

build internals and lower compression to around 8.5:1 and get some turbo cams and a decent turbo. them install megasquirt and get it tuned. you would be best off looking up everything you can about what components are needed in a good turbo system and then buy the stuff separatly. a stage 2 kit is over $3000 and you can put a good it together yourself for about $1800 including pistons,connecting rods, turbo, blowoff valve, wastegate, turbo manifold, intercooler, piping, and a tuning system. look into buying some stuff used such as intercooler, turbo, manifold, wastegate, blowoff valve, and even the tuning system. buy the rods and pistons new and get a good headgasket and arp headbolts. cams are not really needed to make decent power in the 420a as they are pretty big cams already. and cam gears are not needed until way later when you wanna dyno tune and really tweek everything to total perfection. and pullys are something that can come later too. for now do your homework and get a good basic setup before worrying about all the other small stuff. hope this helps.

argh, the more I read about going turbo the more confused I get. I was planning on going the Hahn stage 1 kit route with stock internals. But your saying I can pruchase everything seperatly, build up the block and only spend around $1800??? Is there a link someone can throw at me to help out.

 

[colombian4life]

well i rather have the car worked on by a shop ,and this site does help alot with info , best thing todo is search search search , and when u cant find anymore search on here and after that search again online and then after that if u havent gotten the answer u look for call up a shop that knows about the 420a

 

[2qik4u]

when i decided to build my motor i already knew about who had good motor parts and who did not but knew nothing about turbo components so I started on here and searched in the build suggestion section and in the 420a bolt-on and found what other people were running and made my decisions based on how happy they were with the performance of the parts they used. you can find alot of stuff for sale on this site and on 2gnt.com. they have alot of good info too! but then once you have an idea of what worked well for others you can go about using google and yahoo and search for sale..... example you want a used hks blow off valve. search "used hks blow off valve for sale".... and see what is out there. it took me probably 25 hours or so on the net looking for parts I wanted to use. but was well worth it! look on here in the part out section of the classifieds and under 420a. also alot of stuff is kinda universal like blow off valves and westegates and wideband o2. so you can search all classified sections for stuff like that. anf front mount intercoolers are another one you can find about anywhere. and piping kits as long as they have good connectors and clamps. dont just buy the cheapest cause their components will be junk most the time! again hope this helps.

and i went through all my reciepts and was mistaken about the $1800. if i was to pay 500 for a megasquirt and 200 for a wideband o2 sensor it would total $ 2173.35 for my build. but I did all the work myself including the oversized valves i have and the full port and polish of the head.