Suggestions for RS build

[kirdenlynx]

Well, I bit the bullet and bought 2g eclipse RS since I couldn't find a reasonable GST. I don't really know much about DSMs since all of my previous cars were honda/acura so I need some help. I'm wanting to make ~240hp as a daily driver and have decided on the intercooled SBR turbo kit with fuel upgrade from slowboyracing.com but I'm lost as to what else I need to buy.

I have never tuned any of my cars as I had all of them tuned with s300 systems by a local shop, but I really want to do this build myself (with the help of DSMtuners and friends of course ). So I guess what I'm asking is what would be best to tune my RS?

The only thing I have right now is a laptop with a lot of free space, a dyno in my garage, and a tone of time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also, any guides or links to good threads would be great.

 

[Oblivion02]

Start by doing the basic "Free Mods": Tech Guide: 2G 4G63t Upgrades: Stage 0 Power - DSMtuners

Then do the "Stage 1" mods: Tech Guide: 2G 4G63t Upgrades: Stage 1 Power - DSMtuners
These should get you around 275hp-300hp.

If you want to continue the dsmtuners.com Upgrade Path (which is very good), here is the link: Tech Guide: 2G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners

As for tuning, some people use DSMLink, not me personally because I do not have the need for this yet. However, I'm sure someone with more experience can enlighten you here. To start, I'd get a Palm, and turn it into a pocket logger, just to monitor how your car is running.

The most important single thing to do is TUNE-UP! Routine maintainance will keep your car running smoothly, and performing like you expect it to. Have fun with your DSM. Remember, search is your friend.

 

[KnightHawk434th]

The RS doesn't have the 4G63...it has the 420A, therefore those guides are absolutely useless to him. And DSMLink does NOT, i repeat NOT, work on the NT 420A motor. For monitoring, your best friend is evoscan and/or gauges. You can't mod a 420A with 4G63 guides...they are COMPLETELY different and so is the way they sit in our cars. Believe me, I have one. What you need man is this: 2GNT.com - Power_Stages.
That is your update path for the 420A NT motor.

Second, to add onto the powerstages at 2GNT, you are going to have to build your motor to the full. On the stock internals, you can only run a maximum of 8psi, making around or less than 200whp, but that is NOT advised on a daily driver. Some people run 5psi and get away with it for years, others run 5psi and it blows up in a short amount of time. Sadly, in order to get around 240whp on the 420, you have to spend around 2500-3000 in mods FIRST (built bottom end, built top end). Can't just slap a bigger turbo on and go like the 4G63 guys can. Best of luck to ya, and check out 2GNT or this link 420A DSM Tech - DSM Forums for better information regarding your car. Most of the guys over here are 4G63 owners, but do have a 420A section like i linked before.

 

[Oblivion02]

Thanks for the correction KnightHawk. Misread. KnightHawk is correct. If you would have purchased a GS-T, then the upgrade path would have worked. The links KnightHawk posted are correct. Check them out.

 

[Locke]

Read around here and 2gnt.com, these broad questions have been answered many times, and there is no single answer. There are many different ways to boost your 420a, and most are dependant on your finances and goals.

If you have more specific questions, please, ask away.

On the stock internals, you can only run a maximum of 8psi, making around or less than 200whp, but that is NOT advised on a daily driver.

8psi on a 420a is a limitation of the common "12:1 FMU + 255lph + 235cc injector" combo, not the internals. With more fuel, the internals can hold to around 12'ish psi.

 

[kirdenlynx]

Thanks for all the help. That 2gnt link is great. now I just need help understanding how to tune this 2g, but I can wait for that untill later. This is actually pretty fun. I'm so glad my ls/vtec is finally going to the junk yard I would have never bought the RS if it hadn't and the RS already has pretty good power compared to all of my old hondas/acuras (or atleast compared to where they started at )

 

[absolute_DSM]

I would have never bought the RS if it hadn't and the RS already has pretty good power compared to all of my old hondas/acuras (or atleast compared to where they started at )

If you think thats "good power", you would crap yourself driving a stock 4g63.

 

[KnightHawk434th]

Amen absolute!

Thanks for clearing that up Locke. All my reading was saying stock internals, but what I didn't do is look into it further hehe. Granted, 12 psi would be great, but I don't know how long I would trust it. Too many people have had bad experiences in that matter. So I guess to be on the safe side, I'd build it up so I wouldn't have to worry about it. Also, feel free to browse the forums over there at 2GNT. They got LOADS of valuable information about the NT 420a motor. Just be sure to serarch, they are real asses if you post a question that has been answered 100 times before searching...but if you do your homework, they will be willign to help you. The only thing about searching is, there is SO MUCH information, you often find hundreds of links that say just about the same thing. It's nothing for me to kill 3 or 4 hours searching over there for a problem with my car .

 

[kirdenlynx]

HAHA, interesting Absolute. I was just stating that the power is much better than what I had been told. All of my friends said that it would be better to fix my ls/vtec, but the RS has a much better response through the entire power band, which was impressive to me.

Now I'm getting to the point of more questions. I have decided that I want to turbo the RS but I was looking at the kits described on the 2gnt site and I'm not sure that the SBR kit will be best. Is the Hahn stage 2 kit better than the slowboy kit? I know the slowboy kit includes the 255 walbro and some 550 injectors and I've been told that they are better than what is included on the Hahn kit.

Has anyone used the slowboy kit or hahn kit and can you give any feedback on the two kits? Also, I'm looking for a good site to order a good set of rods and pistons. If anyone knows any good site that would be very helpfull.

 

[kirdenlynx]

Here is something I just added up.

Cheapest GST I could find = 8000

RS=3000
Maintenance= hopefully >800 (replacing timing belt and water pump just in case)
Turbo kit~4000
Rods and pistons~1200 with new bearings and rings

Bad part is I didn't realise this untill I had bought the RS. Also, I have no prices on tuning equipment (any help with that?). Wow, bye bye pell grant money

 

[Locke]

This isn't a Honda. You can turbo your 420a for far less than $4000, if you piece together your own kit. As well; rods, pistons, rings and bearings will cost you well under $1000.

What type of tuning equipment you get will largely depend on which route you choose when putting together your kit. Expect no less than a wideband and boost gauge. (STM has AEM UEGO's on sale)

 

[KnightHawk434th]

If you are going turbo and don't feel like paying $4000 for a turbo, visit this link http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...uild-420a-stage-2-turbo-kit-under-1000-a.html. You going to turbo out of the gate? or are you going to build it up slightly first?

Locke, eventually I wanna go turbo as well, but I need to fix my problems first. When I get all my kinks worked out, should I try a turbo and run a few pounds boost or should i follow my own advice and build it up first.

 

[kirdenlynx]

What a great day right? Well, lets see, I broke my timing belt, bent 6 valves, found out that the engine had a compression leak, and let my RS go back to get my money back according to the Georgia lemon law. All because I decided to go to the dealer's shop to change the timing belt, brakes, and oil and not do it all myself. The belt broke half way to the dealer and my insurance company tested the compression as they always do with cars that are being financed (atleast my insurance company does).

So now I'm looking for another eclipse and the cheapest one is $5000 for a 97 GS. Well, some are cheaper but I don't buy from private sellers unless they have maintenance records.

Oh, and the one GSX I found is $12000. I almost laughed in the guy's face when he told me that. Anyways, I still plan to get a 420a so I will still use this forum but the build is at a stand still. I may decide to get the 97 GS but I don't know about spending that extra 2k on it.

Does anyone have any ideas of how I could find a cheaper DSM? I really liked my RS, but I don't know of any way to find another one. I'm not too familiar with car search engines and my area doesn't have many DSMs.

 

[kirdenlynx]

Oh, if I can find another DSM I plan on getting a good set of forged rods and pistons with good bearings and a good ring set, then boosting to 5psi untill I can build up the head. Well, if this sounds good? I don't have any experience with these engines so if anyone has some opinions about this it would be helpfull.

 

[Locke]

Locke, eventually I wanna go turbo as well, but I need to fix my problems first. When I get all my kinks worked out, should I try a turbo and run a few pounds boost or should i follow my own advice and build it up first.

You can't go wrong building the motor ahead of time, except the cost. You could boost it first, then you may never get around to building the bottom. It is a subjective question; like I say to everyone, the decision is based on your finances and your goals. If you are dead set on 300+ whp and have the money to do so, you may want to build the motor first to get it done and out of the way. If you will be happy with less than ~250 whp, or are hard up for money, you may want to boost it first.

It really is up to you.

Does anyone have any ideas of how I could find a cheaper DSM? I really liked my RS, but I don't know of any way to find another one. I'm not too familiar with car search engines and my area doesn't have many DSMs.

Try perusing the classified sections here at DSMtuners, 2gnt.com and DSMsource.com. You could also look at AutoTrader.com, craigslist, and eBay.

Oh, if I can find another DSM I plan on getting a good set of forged rods and pistons with good bearings and a good ring set, then boosting to 5psi untill I can build up the head. Well, if this sounds good? I don't have any experience with these engines so if anyone has some opinions about this it would be helpfull.

You can boost more than 5psi with the stock bottom end, even without a FMIC. The head won't really hold you back for quite some time.

 

[KnightHawk434th]

OUCH! I can honestly say I've never broke a timing belt...but have spun bearings twice within a month. You already get rid of your car? it not, can I have it? Will buy it for towing/shipping costs...but if you already got rid of it (which it appears you have, but I'm not quite for sure) then rats, I'm too late .

Got 2GNTs up here all over for $1500ish a piece. There a Talon ESI 5-speed (w/ 420a) selling for $1500 up here at a car lot, as well as a few around my area, but it would be hell for shipping down to GA! $12,000 for a GSX doesn't seem too out of the ordinary. I see that price tag all the time.

Locke, I am hard on funds, and I'm hoping to hit the track this summer. It would be nice to boost first and run maybe 5-8psi, but yet i don't have the $800 for the self-custom kit that I linked to up in one of my previous posts. Hell I'd be happy to break 200whp , big jump from stock! Right now I'm stage 0/1 for my performance. Header, soon to have a catback, adj. gears, racing clutch...but I also have some things to fix first. Maybe I'll boost come summer/fall, maybe I won't. Still down the road, but will definately take your post into consideration. I've been scared to boost on my stock block, but you gave me that extra little piece of assurance.

Kinda off topic, but you happen to know/know of the dude that was 3rd time DUI and got his black RS from Instant Auto Finance impounded with a fked up body in the Goshen/Elkart area? If so, tell him I said hi...his car is now mine . If not, oh well...was worth a shot.

 

[kirdenlynx]

Thanks for all the help Locke. Like I said, I'm new to these engines.

Sorry Knighthawk, I had to take the car back to get my money back. Do you know of any shipping companies that would ship from your area to Georgia? As long as the car and shipping don't go over ~$4000 I would be ok. The only thing I have ever had shipped that was even relatively big was a widebody kit.

I should clarify about the GSX. It had no maintenance records, the seats were torn in a few places, it needed a new passenger side fender and a paint job. I didn't really trust the guy's mechanic skills and he couldn't prove that any maintenance had been done at all. I didn't think that price was right for a car that may or may not break soon and wasn't covered by the lemon law (he was a private seller).

 

[Locke]

Everyone was inexperienced with these engines at one point.

Kinda off topic, but you happen to know/know of the dude that was 3rd time DUI and got his black RS from Instant Auto Finance impounded with a fked up body in the Goshen/Elkart area? If so, tell him I said hi...his car is now mine . If not, oh well...was worth a shot.

No, I try not to associate with the criminal/child-minded type.

 

[KnightHawk434th]

Check out this link Auto Transport DIRECTORY for Car Shipping, Car Moving. Did a quick google and came across this for my area. IF you wanna know, I guess you could call em all one-by-one , but that'd be time consuming. I'm not sure if the ESi is still for sale though. Haven't been home in a few weeks due to being here at school, but last time I was in town it was still there. I know the guy and he is a good buddy of my friend as well, so maybe I could cut a deal, but not sure. Like someone above mentioned, check craiglist and ebay. You might be able to find on there too that might be a little closer to home for ya.