420a-T build list need suggestions/review

[Brax93]

I want to build a 420a-T and don't say save your money and get a gst or gsx I want to build the engine for experience.Going to get a spare 420a from junkyard that needs built.Want to build engine and wire MS then get a turbo setup later.My goal is around 300hp. I made a list might be totally off but suggestions, things I need or forgot,things I don't so I can revise the list.Going to be slow build but it will get there. The turbo part not too sure about so please tell me what I need. Thanks.
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CI-cimotorsports GY-dsmgraveyard MO-Mishimoto

Rebuild engine from junk yard- $250-300

Valve Cover
2.4 neon valve cover powder coated
oil catch can
hopefully COP setup if i can figure it out need to do more reading

HEAD
CI- Crower turbo grind CAMS-$360
GY- Graveyard Motorsports Performance Valves-$150
AA- Felpro seals-$28
CI- Springs-$110
CI- SBI Keepers-$30
CI- SBI Lifter-$160
CI- SBI Rockers-$160
CI- ARP head stud-$125
CI- Cometic HG-90$
CI- EGT block off plate-$15

Machine shop- port/polish/resurface face/valves 1mm over?=???

Block
CI- Wiseco pistons(8.8:1)=$470
CI- Eagle rods-$330
CI- Clevite main and rod bearings=$110

Machine shop-hone cylinders, resurface face, resurface crank=???

ECU
SY-Megasquirt w/ wideband-$840

Turbo(LATER ON)
Need help with not too sure

MO- Mishimoto Universal Intercooler G-Line, Black 24.5" x 11.75" x 3" $295
Blow off valve-???
ebay- Wastegate-OBX Racing BLUE 40mm-$165 ????
CI- Manifold-OBX Ram Horn Turbo Manifold-$389 ???
ebay- Turbo-S16g,s20g or S366??-$700 ???
ebay- Piping-100$
ebay- Oil fitler sandwich with turbo feed line-$40

Fuel
Fuel Pump-Walboro 255??
injectors-??
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[Sebba]

My suggestion? Don't bother. You can achieve that on a stock bottom end.

I'm just going to light a few grand on fire for the experience, brb.

 

[jayson427]

Do not order from ci motorsports or dsm graveyard unless you want to wait 2-3 months for your parts. And Sebba is wrong you can't make 300hp on the stock bottom end. Maybe 250 at the most!

You have alot of parts right besides getting an eBay turbo. Get one from a reputable company or here in the classifieds. I would go with ferra valves too. Contact rpm machine. Com for your bottom end parts and cam shafts. That's who I went through with great success. I think you can order directly from sbi for your other valve train parts. You can probably use stock injectors till you max them out. You will need an upgraded clutch stage 2+. I balanced my whole motor and did porting to the head when the machine shop did my build. It's not necessary but something to think about. And I say that about ci because I've ordered through them and they take forever and rarely ever answer the phone. I've had better luck through Howell automotive. Com by ordering on there website and talking to them for updates. Just get quality turbo parts since your going deep into the build you don't want to regret it down the road trust me. If you get crower cams their. Warranty will only be valid with their springs and retainers just so you know. Look into over sized vales too that was one of my regrets.

That's all I have for now but I'm probably missing a few things. And this is just my opinion after building a 420a.

 

[Fotowntalon]

HEAD
CI- Crower turbo grind CAMS-$360
CI- ARP head stud-$125
CI- Cometic HG-90$
Block
CI- Wiseco pistons(8.8:1)=$470
CI- Eagle rods-$330
CI- Clevite main and rod bearings=$110

Machine shop, resurface crank=???

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1) I can get you just about all these items for cheaper than CI.
Hit me up in a PM or E-Mail ([email protected]) and i will get you hooked up. 2GNT.com Forums - Viewing topic - FS: Wiseco Pistons NIB 8.8:1 and 10.5:1 http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=16&topic_id=120947&mode=full

2) I'd consider going with the Crower NA Cams (stage 2) lot of 2GNT guys prefer them over the Turbo Grinds in a boosted application
You may want to consider the Valve Springs and retainer kit for the cams http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cro-84176

3) For the crank and Rods I'd recommend getting the crank and rods Aero-Shed, will increase your HP, increase your durability, and get you better gas mileage. 2GNT.com Forums - Viewing topic - WTS: Callies Aero-Shedding Services

 

[jayson427]

Fotowntalon I forgot all about you man! Sorry I didn't recommend that. And what is aero shed? Never heard of that.

 

[Fotowntalon]

NP, I don't post nearly as much as I use to, work and kids keeping me pretty busy.

As for Aero-shed, I'd follow the link for pictures and a description. 2GNT.com Forums - Viewing topic - WTS: Callies Aero-Shedding Services
The abridged version, its a Super finish, which basically makes parts VERY smooth. Smooth parts = stronger parts (less stress risers), Less windage via cutting through the oil as opposed to sloshing through it. Which means better mpg, free hp. First begun being used on gears, with amazing results, and now being incorporated into head items, cranks, rods and etc. The link I gave also has some articles proving results on super finishing gears.

 

[Brax93]

Hey thanks for the advice and suggestions. I'm pretty sure the rods and pistons are the 420a weak point and the head is actually pretty good so yeah but I don't think I would buy a turbo from ebay I was just getting a idea. what kind should I use also?

and jayson427 I know you have 10.5:1 pistons are you going turbo still and arent you limited to basically e-85 with that compression with turbo because I still want to run pump 93 but i heard some people dont like the 8.8:1 outside of boost so im just curious.

and thanks about the crower warranty ill probably get their springs instead and how much did the machine shop cost you for the head and block?

and Fotowntalon since your from Ohio abit north though do you know any shops around Cincinnati,Dayton, or Columbus that could tune megasquirt? I heard jays racing is good with dsm but im not sure about megasquirt. And for aero-shedding we send you the rods and crank and you aero-shed it then ship it back?

 

[Fotowntalon]

Correct you send them to me, we finish them and send them back. Or If we are ordering you the part, we can get it sent to us, Aero-Shed it and send it back. For Shops, I'd check with IPS, they may be able to do something with you. Main shop I have always used is Pure-Tuning, really good, but way north (around Toledo). Most DSMs shops are specifically 4G63 shops, the 420a most dont know much about. I'd call first.

 

[Brax93]

alright I might look into the aero shedding for the crank and rods looks like it would work probably going to be a slow build so why not well do it right.. Im getting the engine saturday hopefully that needs rebuilt and ill take it apart and look at it.

 

[jayson427]

I'm definitely going turbo on 10.5 compression. With Ms it can be done on pump gas but eventually I'll be going e85. Mark bullet said it has been proven on 91 octane and he is a guru on the 420a. Look up Slo2gen on here and YouTube. That will help change your mind. You just need the right turbo for it. I'm going to run a 20g with a bigger hotside to help with the higher compression. Do some more research on it, I would at least go with stock compression. I see more and more people going 10.5 on the 420a. With the right parts and engine builder with a proper tune it's definitely possible but I'm shooting for 400hp too. Keep reading and you will get it. It took me 1 1/2 years to gather up my parts just for the n/a motor now I'm getting my turbo parts together. PM me for any advice or talk with fotowntalon.

 

[Brax93]

alright cool so you think 10.5:1 would be okay since I plan on getting MS just need to figure out how to tune myself or find a shop but I don't want to build the engine and it blow, yeah ill probably pm you and fotowntalon during the build. and I cant seem to find stock compression isn't it 9.0:1 or something all i see is 8.8:1 or 10.5:1

 

[Fotowntalon]

stock is 9:6:1, if you are willing to spend the money dont worry about what "shelf items" are, shelf is 8.5/8.8 (depending on wiseco/je) and 10.5 but for $50 more you can get a piston made with a unique CR. Like 9.4/9.6 10.0 etc. Pistons are highly customizable.

Also wanted to warn you on Aero-Shedding the crank. Because the crank is Cast and not forged, it will not shine like in the pictures shown (pictures are of forged and billet pieces). It will still benefit from aero-shedding, being smooth and etc, but because cast is a softer material, it will visually not look like a "chrome finish" like how the rods would. Just wanted to through that out there. So if you do this, you are not surprised.

 

[Brax93]

only 50$ for custom pistons that's a pretty good deal... I would at least like to go stock CR I didn't know it was only that much more for custom.

 

[Fotowntalon]

$50 more =P than original price, not $50 for the set, just clearing that up. Most pistons companies will do that, called a shelf change, some companies only allow 1 change, others will allow a few.

Very common in the v8 world (about a million different piston combinations), but surprisingly a lot of tuners do not know this.

 

[Brax93]

yeah thats what I meant 50$ more I wish it was just 50$ hahah
and I sent you a pm Fotowntalon

 

[jayson427]

Je will make custom piston about 100-125 per piston and I think I paid 425 for my set. You need to find out who will be building your motor and tuning it. Ask those guys what they think find someone that's familiar with Ms and see what they say. I built my motor for longevity and good mpg but still get the power I want also something to think about.

 

[Brax93]

yeah that's what I want also durable and longevity engine that makes pretty decent power. Hoping it will come together nicely. I don't want to become one of those projects that you never know what happen to it either.

 

[Sebba]

Maybe not 300 at the wheels, but at the flywheel.

 

[jayson427]

Maybe not 300 at the wheels, but at the flywheel.

Not even at the flywheel man. A stock 420a is 140hp at the flywheel and 122 hp at the wheels. The stock bottom end can only hold 8-10psi at the max. If you do the math it's no where close to 300hp. Like I said maybe 250hp at the crank with a bad ass head on it. And that's mostly likely not right either.

 

[Soto8]

Have you gotten your megasquirt yet? Ive been trying to get a megasquirt and ive tried ordering from SymTech but for some reason it wont let me and ive tried calling and nothing.

 

[Sebba]

Not even at the flywheel man. A stock 420a is 140hp at the flywheel and 122 hp at the wheels. The stock bottom end can only hold 8-10psi at the max. If you do the math it's no where close to 300hp. Like I said maybe 250hp at the crank with a bad ass head on it. And that's mostly likely not right either.

I've seen 255whp from a stock bottom end 420a.

 

[jayson427]

I've seen 255whp from a stock bottom end 420a.

Yeah 255 is no where close to 300hp like you originally said. My point proven.

 

[grothe3297venge]

Yeah 255 is no where close to 300hp like you originally said. My point proven.

Wire up MS and run e85 I bet he will be pretty close to 300hp at the wheels on a stock block. How long the rods hold up is the question

 

[Sebba]

Yeah 255 is no where close to 300hp like you originally said. My point proven.

255*1.15 accounting for 15% drivetrain loss = 293.

Yeah that's nowhere close

No where, and nowhere, mean two totally different things. I guess you missed that day of first grade, is that why you paid someone to install an ECU in your 420a?

 

[ericsraptor]

I do not see a LSD in your build sheet I would save up the cash and buy one. 300 hp without one will just blow the tires off the line. The good Quaife are getting harder to find so I no its not cheep but I would buy one now. I no pure tuning in Toledo Ohio (419-474-7992) has them in stock I bought one early this year after looking for a long time to find one. they are discontinued so don't wait to long.