From Hero to Zhiro (1999 Sixbolt_16g)

[SixBolt_16G]

Yeah - its not tuned. Whatever they were doing with ECMLink, it wasn't finished. I can help you get reset.

Thanks Justin, I really appreciate the help. Its suppose to be in the upper 40's by the weekend, so Im going to get out there and do some of the things you suggested.

 

[Justin DuBois]

With the SD table like it is - there is no "99-100" peak in the map. This is not "wrong" but it isn't an efficient use of the ECU tables. SD in these cars is not difficult once you understand the two key datapoints that need to be "calibrated".

Global Fuel (affects WOT AFR most) , and Global Dead time (affects idle AFR most).

IDLE
Global dead time and other tables in direct access affect the shortest pulse widths of the injector. Idle is the least stable area to dial in as fuel pressure, battery voltage and injector design greatly affect fuel delivery at the shortest pulse widths. To compound the issue, Global Fuel has some impact on Global Dead time as well, so you may re-visit idle calibration several times as you dial in global fuel calibration.

WOT
Overly simplified - There is a cell in the SD VE map where the maximum efficiency of airflow occurs and all other cells will be less "efficient" with fuel. This maximum SD VE (volumetric efficiency) peak cell is where you want to put a 99-100 peak value. You adjust the Global Fuel number to hit the WOT AFR target in that cell. All other cells are used to hit AFR targets at other RPM and boost levels, and use less than 100 VE values to hit the AFR targets. Finding the location of the peak cell in the table is done by running WOT pulls in 3rd gear from 2k-redline at various boost levels. You adjust SD VE cells as you go to work up to max boost level. Knock in the pull will throw off the results and need to be tuned out. The rest of the SD VE map values should be a smooth transition away from the 99-100 peak.

There is a "Calculator" to help you setup a theoretical Global Fuel value - and you should use it for the first blind start, but after that you use your Wideband AFR results to set the global fuel number. Best advice I can try and impart - THE CALCULATED GLOBAL FUEL VALUE IS NOT A TARGET - it's an educated guess, and always wrong. If you try and force all other tables and settings to use the calculated global fuel value you will never get dialed in.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

With the SD table like it is - there is no "99-100" peak in the map. This is not "wrong" but it isn't an efficient use of the ECU tables. SD in these cars is not difficult once you understand the two key datapoints that need to be "calibrated".

Global Fuel (affects WOT AFR most) , and Global Dead time (affects idle AFR most).

IDLE
Global dead time and other tables in direct access affect the shortest pulse widths of the injector. Idle is the least stable area to dial in as fuel pressure, battery voltage and injector design greatly affect fuel delivery at the shortest pulse widths. To compound the issue, Global Fuel has some impact on Global Dead time as well, so you may re-visit idle calibration several times as you dial in global fuel calibration.

WOT
Overly simplified - There is a cell in the SD VE map where the maximum efficiency of airflow occurs and all other cells will be less "efficient" with fuel. This maximum SD VE (volumetric efficiency) peak cell is where you want to put a 99-100 peak value. You adjust the Global Fuel number to hit the WOT AFR target in that cell. All other cells are used to hit AFR targets at other RPM and boost levels, and use less than 100 VE values to hit the AFR targets. Finding the location of the peak cell in the table is done by running WOT pulls in 3rd gear from 2k-redline at various boost levels. You adjust SD VE cells as you go to work up to max boost level. Knock in the pull will throw off the results and need to be tuned out. The rest of the SD VE map values should be a smooth transition away from the 99-100 peak.

There is a "Calculator" to help you setup a theoretical Global Fuel value - and you should use it for the first blind start, but after that you use your Wideband AFR results to set the global fuel number. Best advice I can try and impart - THE CALCULATED GLOBAL FUEL VALUE IS NOT A TARGET - it's an educated guess, and always wrong. If you try and force all other tables and settings to use the calculated global fuel value you will never get dialed in.

Speaking of global fuel, One of the other things that I didnt understand when looking over this tune is why this box for the injectors has a value of 817. Shouldnt it be 1000 since i have FIC 1000 low-impedence injectors?

 

[Justin DuBois]

Speaking of global fuel, One of the other things that I didnt understand when looking over this tune is why this box for the injectors has a value of 817. Shouldnt it be 1000 since i have FIC 1000 low-impedence injectors?
View attachment 751078

Yes - If you enter 1000cc/min in the injector size, it will calculate a Global Fuel value. When changing fuel type, base fuel pressure, or injector size you can enter values to see global fuel offset. This is where you start when you have no idea if your setup is rich or lean.

Once you have wide-band o2 data in the logs, you will use actual AFR readings to adjust +\-the global fuel to hit your AFR target.

 

[chrisman287]

Speaking of global fuel, One of the other things that I didnt understand when looking over this tune is why this box for the injectors has a value of 817. Shouldnt it be 1000 since i have FIC 1000 low-impedence injectors?

Yes - If you enter 1000cc/min in the injector size, it will calculate a Global Fuel value.

Aren’t FICs rated @ 56psi or something like that? So at 43psi they flow less. Not 100% sure tho

I have 1050s and my global is a little higher than yours (somewhere around -48.5%)

 

[SixBolt_16G]

I swapped out the throttle cable for a new one and it seems to have, at least, solved half of my problem. I set my idle and then took it for a drive. The RPMs no longer hang when I shift or rev at idle up to 3k just driving around town was just fine, however, when i hopped on the expressway, the minute i got into boost the RPMS just seem to want to sky rocket once i punch in the clutch and step off the gas. So perhaps, what I thought a single issue was two different ones. Im suspecting that the wastegate might also be sticking closed and continues sending the RPMs up.

Yes - If you enter 1000cc/min in the injector size, it will calculate a Global Fuel value. When changing fuel type, base fuel pressure, or injector size you can enter values to see global fuel offset. This is where you start when you have no idea if your setup is rich or lean.

Once you have wide-band o2 data in the logs, you will use actual AFR readings to adjust +\-the global fuel to hit your AFR target.

Aren’t FICs rated @ 56psi or something like that? So at 43psi they flow less. Not 100% sure tho

I have 1050s and my global is a little higher than yours (somewhere around -48.5%)

Aren’t FICs rated @ 56psi or something like that? So at 43psi they flow less. Not 100% sure tho

I have 1050s and my global is a little higher than yours (somewhere around -48.5%)

Im not too familiar with fuel so im not sure where the base fuel pressure comes from. If I look at it on FIC's website, the calculator has 43.5. Would this be the same base fuel pressure im suppose to be looking at or is there another chart with a different meaning of fuel pressure psi?

Im thinking about sending the fuel injectors out to FIC be cleaned before I start trying to tune. Theyre like 10 years old and have never been cleaned.


Added a new log. Does the ISC Position look any better?

 

[chrisman287]

Im thinking about sending the fuel injectors out to FIC be cleaned before I start trying to tune. Theyre like 10 years old and have never been cleaned.Added a new log. Does the ISC Position look any better?

Not a bad idea to have them cleaned.

Your ISC position is better than mine

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Not a bad idea to have them cleaned.

Your ISC position is better than mine

Trust me, if it looks somewhat good, then it was some sort of magic trick that I pulled out of my ass.

 

[Justin DuBois]

2G base fuel pressure (without the vac line attached to the FPR) should be set at 43.5psi. When you are idling and pulling a vacuum, the base pressure will be closer to 37 psi. The pressure with vacuum really depends on how much vacuum your cams produce, so the base pressure is set more reliably without the vacuum applied.

Regards RPM's jumping up with boost - Is your foot off the gas? I suspect your drivability issues will be related to your non-stock tables.

You have a lot of Non-stock tables in Direct Access: I suggest you reset these tables.
TmgMaxOct / TmgMinOct (I use a mix of Evo8 and 2G DSM)
Coolant based fuel adjust (I use stock)
Cranking base fuel adjust (I use stock)
FastIdleATSCPos / FastIdleMTISCPos (I use stock)
injBatteryAdj, (I use stock)
OpenLoopMaxOct / OpenLoopMinOCT - (I use a modified stock table)

Someone who has used the FIC specific injectors should comment on the injBatteryAdj tables. I am using Denso style injectors, so the stock voltage tables work fine for me. The same voltage is affected in the global dead time - so one tries not to put corrections into two places

I'm only using a global deadtime in my setup to adjust the idle performance.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

2G base fuel pressure (without the vac line attached to the FPR) should be set at 43.5psi. When you are idling and pulling a vacuum, the base pressure will be closer to 37 psi. The pressure with vacuum really depends on how much vacuum your cams produce, so the base pressure is set more reliably without the vacuum applied.

Regards RPM's jumping up with boost - Is your foot off the gas? I suspect your drivability issues will be related to your non-stock tables.

You have a lot of Non-stock tables in Direct Access: I suggest you reset these tables.
TmgMaxOct / TmgMinOct (I use a mix of Evo8 and 2G DSM)
Coolant based fuel adjust (I use stock)
Cranking base fuel adjust (I use stock)
FastIdleATSCPos / FastIdleMTISCPos (I use stock)
injBatteryAdj, (I use stock)
OpenLoopMaxOct / OpenLoopMinOCT - (I use a modified stock table)

Someone who has used the FIC specific injectors should comment on the injBatteryAdj tables. I am using Denso style injectors, so the stock voltage tables work fine for me. The same voltage is affected in the global dead time - so one tries not to put corrections into two places

I'm only using a global deadtime in my setup to adjust the idle performance.

I was able to get out to the car on my lunch break today and run off a log after changing the tables back to stock. Things did change and im running super rich now with a combinedFT around -26

I was looking at one of your last logs from your build thread and comparing it to mine. There are a few things that I dont have checked that I wanted to ask about.

Use manifold pressure (MAP) was not checked under MAF Clamp.

You have Lock rear o2 voltage and Lock manifold differential pressure(MDP) checked.... do i need to have all three of those checked too?

Is it okay to take the car for a test drive while its running this rich or do i need to make some adjustments before doing so?

 

[Justin DuBois]

I was looking at one of your last logs from your build thread and comparing it to mine. There are a few things that I dont have checked that I wanted to ask about.

Use manifold pressure (MAP) was not checked under MAF Clamp.

This will only matter if you enable MAF Clamp, and you should not. MAF Clamp is an interesting feature where you do SpeedDensity like air fuel at a specified cross over point when running MAF. This is for people who can idle well with MAF, but are overrunning the MAF and need to simulate airflow with MAF Clamp

You have Lock rear o2 voltage and Lock manifold differential pressure(MDP) checked.... do i need to have all three of those checked too?
Is it okay to take the car for a test drive while its running this rich or do i need to make some adjustments before doing so?

For any stock sensor that you have changed to a non-stock sensor, you usually go ahead and lock the input to the factory code so a harmless value is given to the factory error checking logic to avoid getting a CEL.

Coolant is the only one I don't Lock, because it is still a factory sensor being used the way the factory intended.

Depends how rich. Your SD table "was" really lean, and other things were richening the mix. - I need to check your new log.

 

[Justin DuBois]

There is more you need to adjust to get back to stock settings:
You have "individual" dead times set, you can zero those out. You only need this if you know your injectors are performing differently from each other at idle. How one would figure that out is a big question - I don't use it.

Your SpeedDensity map is about 15% lean - I'd go with the stock map for now. I don't see a simple reset for this in the software like other tables, so you should look at the ECMTuning page https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/v3configs and download the settings file for your car. Open the settings file and - copy - paste - the table into your Speed Density ECU settings.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Load the stock stuff, and ECU->Reset fuel trims. Get the car running, warm it up and then adjust the Global Deadtime until the Combined FT is hovering closer to 0 - then reset fuel trims again.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Load the stock stuff, and ECU->Reset fuel trims. Get the car running, warm it up and then adjust the Global Deadtime until the Combined FT is hovering closer to 0 - then reset fuel trims again.

Copied the SD map over, reset fuel trims, started it and let it warm. Numbers look much better for the ST, LT, Combined FT by the time i was done adjusting deadtime.

One thing that i noticed that I changed before i started it was that the Global Fuel was way off... they had it at -44.9 rather than -55. I have 1000cc injectors.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Copied the SD map over, reset fuel trims, started it and let it warm. Numbers look much better for the ST, LT, Combined FT by the time i was done adjusting deadtime.

One thing that i noticed that I changed before i started it was that the Global Fuel was way off... they had it at -44.9 rather than -55. I have 1000cc injectors.

I would not say "way" off, but sure. Starting at -55 as a calculated guess is fine, but I suspect that will go lean in the real world. I also have 1000cc injectors and I'm running at -43 global using E25 fuel. With your tables now in the realm of "Normal" you can start with "some" boost and see if you need to correct global fuel to hit your AFR targets at WOT.

Now is the time to make an initial adjustment to you stock AFR targets for MaxOct in the Direct access tables. Here is a comparison between your stock table and my modified table:

Yours (Stock):

Mine:

Notice the primary difference - All values below (in my case) 11:1 AFR have been raised to 11:1. This is where my E-25 mixed fuel likes to burn, and the WB o2 can "see" in this range very well. Most WB go "blind" below 10:1, and even pump gas is too rich below 10:1

As a RICH target on 91-93 oct I suggest going with 10:1 to start, and you can get more aggressive as you see how your knock is working at that target. If you stick with pump gas, I bet you will end up in the 10.5:1 range for a target. The more octane you run the leaner you can go.

Food for thought... Injector Duty Cycle. The more stable the fuel, the more lean you can run and it extends how much boost you can push (because you have more injector duty cycle to balance WOT with)

 

[SixBolt_16G]

As a RICH target on 91-93 oct I suggest going with 10:1 to start, and you can get more aggressive as you see how your knock is working at that target.

So I'm editing this table directly with 10.1 values and smoothing out the values around them like in the table below, saving it to the ECU and then taking a drive?

This is where my E-25 mixed fuel likes to burn,

If you stick with pump gas, I bet you will end up in the 10.5:1 range for a target. The more octane you run the leaner you can go.

Food for thought... Injector Duty Cycle. The more stable the fuel, the more lean you can run and it extends how much boost you can push (because you have more injector duty cycle to balance WOT with)

E25? So your mixing in a gallon or 2 of e85 with your pump gas?

Notice the primary difference - All values below (in my case) 11:1 AFR have been raised to 11:1. This is where my E-25 mixed fuel likes to burn, and the WB o2 can "see" in this range very well. Most WB go "blind" below 10:1, and even pump gas is too rich below 10:1

Im going to try working on getting my wideband calibrated to ecmlink tomorrow. Its the rear o2, but the voltage keeps saying 0.00 when I set it up as a linear wideband in ECMLink, despite seeing it work in the car. Not sure what Im missing.

 

[Justin DuBois]

So I'm editing this table directly with 10.1 values and smoothing out the values around them like in the table below, saving it to the ECU and then taking a drive?

View attachment 752577

Yes - looks good.

E25? So your mixing in a gallon or 2 of e85 with your pump gas?

California 91 is already E10 - and E85 isn't always 85%. If you take 4 gal E10 91 oct + 1 Gal E85 = 94oct - 5 gal E25 Gasoline Mix.

Im going to try working on getting my wideband calibrated to ecmlink tomorrow. Its the rear o2, but the voltage keeps saying 0.00 when I set it up as a linear wideband in ECMLink, despite seeing it work in the car. Not sure what Im missing.

You must have a working WB in the logs to properly calibrate your Global fuel. You can rough it in by eyeballing the gauge as you are driving, but that's a bit dangerous, and not nearly accurate enough to adjust your SD table cells.

 

[chrisman287]

One thing that i noticed that I changed before i started it was that the Global Fuel was way off... they had it at -44.9 rather than -55. I have 1000cc injectors.

I have FIC 1050s and my global is at -44.9. My STFT hovers around 0 +/-

 

[SixBolt_16G]

1. New fuel pump is overrunning the stock fpr.
2. Car still cold starts at 2300 rpms.
3. Excessive, loud creaking from the rear end.
4. New clutch is dragging.
5. Fuel Injector 1 seal leak.
6. Unsure how much of the tune was actually finished.
7. Wideband not logging in ECMLink
8. Rpms hang/raise during shifts or any revs close to 3000 rpms or above..

ugh.... what a mess. Finally logging my wideband to Link. Stared at the wiring underneath the car for about half an hour trying to understand what was done and how the wires had been run. 2 wires needed to be run to the ECU a soldered, so did that and can now capture that value in the logs.

I think Im going to have to take this throttle body off. Now that its colder, I can tell its sticking. Still having the same sticking rpm between shift the more throttle that I give it, but now I can see that im also idling high when i come to a stop.

Heres the results after changing the global fuel and dead times.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Hey @1990TSIAWDTALON, I have this throttle body off the car right now so that i could get a better look at it. Theres no obvious signs of it sticking, its actually quite snappy despite logs in ECMLink showing otherwise. You mentioned that I should try giving it a couple of squirts of WD40. What spots should i be hitting and is there anything else that I should checkout and verify before I reinstall?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Yes sir, the 2 areas in red. Just lube the throttle shaft points. It is all you can do.
Did you mark your return springs with a line across it so you know you wound it back to the correct tension? About the only time a throttle shaft sticks is if the plate is not put back in correctly (upside down or wrong side out) OR if the plate closes too far (there should be a gap if you look thru the bore at a light, all the way around, just a slight gap).
I mark my springs with a straight line before disassembly and mark the plate "Up" and "Out" so it all goes back together and plays nice.
Is it missing a throttle plate screw? I only see one.

 

[Justin DuBois]

Hey @1990TSIAWDTALON, I have this throttle body off the car right now so that i could get a better look at it. Theres no obvious signs of it sticking, its actually quite snappy despite logs in ECMLink showing otherwise. You mentioned that I should try giving it a couple of squirts of WD40. What spots should i be hitting and is there anything else that I should checkout and verify before I reinstall?

View attachment 754002View attachment 754003View attachment 754004View attachment 754005

Do you run it with the coolant lines to the FIAV capped off like this? Are there missing vacuum line nipples on the top?

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Yes sir, the 2 areas in red. Just lube the throttle shaft points. It is all you can do.
Did you mark your return springs with a line across it so you know you wound it back to the correct tension? About the only time a throttle shaft sticks is if the plate is not put back in correctly (upside down or wrong side out) OR if the plate closes too far (there should be a gap if you look thru the bore at a light, all the way around, just a slight gap).
I mark my springs with a straight line before disassembly and mark the plate "Up" and "Out" so it all goes back together and plays nice.
Is it missing a throttle plate screw? I only see one.

View attachment 754006

I wasnt the one who rebuilt this throttle body... So im not sure how to answer the question about the return spring. All I can say about that is that after the throttle body was rebuilt, I didnt have the issue going on that im trying to resolve.

The problem didnt start until after the next visit to the same shop when they went to put it on the dyno and tried doing the WOT tune ... Months before putting it on the dyno(They kept the car for 7 month), I gave them a Beck Arnley cable that I had sitting in my garage forever sitting in an air exposed packaging. I tried adjusting that multiple times and went though how to do it correctly with Justin... i ended up swapping it out for a Pioneer CA8919 cable. This fixed the problem somewhat because I was no longer able to replicate the issue if I were to rev up to 4000 rpms. It no longer go stuck at 2500 rpms for a second and then falling, but the problem where the rpms begin to sky rocket during the 2-3 with giving it slightly more aggressive throttle is still there.

It does have 2 screws for the throttle plate.

This is really hard to get the camera to pick up on the light...

but the light does seem to go all the way around.

Do you run it with the coolant lines to the FIAV capped off like this? Are there missing vacuum line nipples on the top?

The car was already having the issue before i did that. I blocked off my FIAV and rerouted the hoses because no matter what i did the car kept starting up at 2500 rpms. Blocking it off fixed that. This was the guide that i followed https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/free-fiav-block.391977/

As for the vacuum line nipples. This was the way the car was given back to me after the engine was rebuilt at Boostin Performance 12 years ago. The E and A are block off from the top and has the hose over the nipple. P seems to be blocked off internally as i cant put any air through it.

I would be inclined to think that it was the throttle body causing the issues, except like I said previously... The car didnt have this problem before and i drove it around for about 3 months after it was rebuilt with no issues... The problem didnt start until it was sent back there. Here is what it went there for..

Throttle body rebuilt (summer of 2023)

(Nov 2023-May 2024):
-Cruise control delete
-Installed aeromotive 340
-Replaced clutch(ACT2600)
-Exhaust manifold, turbo and o2 housing gaskets
-Suspension overhaul that is irrelevant to this issue.
-Speed Density install and tune(verified with Justin that barely anything relevant was done.)

But when we look in ECMLink logs... (Reposting this from the thread that Steve wanted me to move to a separate thread or my build thread)

"Adding a screenshot of what the issue looks like in ECMLink. (Red=RPMs, Green=Throttle). The thing that I notice right off the bat is with the first peak, the throttle drops off immediately. As I give it more gas (but staying out of boost)and go to shift from 2nd to 3rd gear, the throttle doesnt drop off immediately(seems to take its sweet time on closing) and the RPMs start to skyrocket (I could understand that the RPMS might plateau if the throttle was sticking, but I dont understand what would create a bump in RPMs like that.)"

Yes, it does seems like the plate is sticking based on the throttle taking extra time to close, but would that cause a boost in rpms after stepping off and having less air go through?

 

[Justin DuBois]

I don't see any plate sandwiched between the TB and the FIAV assembly. What method are you using to bypass? Did you remove the freeze plug and close the start position on the FIAV all the way?

Regards the hose between E and A - Please try pushing air through A and E separately to confirm where they go. There are "pin holes" in the top of the TB before and after the throttle plate. What you want to confirm is that there is no air moving from one side of the plate to the other through your "Block off" hose. Generally I would tell people to use caps and zip ties to block the nipples, as you don't want air moving through your E to A hose. If E and A only connect to one side of the throttle plate, then a hose is fine.

 

[SixBolt_16G]

Did you remove the freeze plug and close the start position on the FIAV all the way?

Yes

Generally I would tell people to use caps and zip ties to block the nipples, as you don't want air moving through your E to A hose. If E and A only connect to one side of the throttle plate, then I hose is fine.

I can test that this afternoon, but i have caps and zip ties here so can easily just cut the hose and cap it off in seconds.